Yes, The children are hurt by the AFFAIR. They are being hurt by their PARENT LEAVING THE FAMILY FOR ANOTHER PERSON. And this part has already happened, tellin the truth is NOT what is hurting them.

And if the WS is willing to work on his marriage and end the A. Then it will teach the child forgiveness and that parents can even make mistakes and can still love each other and make the family stronger. If the WS works to make the marriage better and end the A then the child wont hold it against them.

As a child in these circumstances, my experience leads me to believe that exposing an affair to a child this young can be very detrimental. I didnt' say you lie and tell the child everything is okay. But, if you are in debt by 100,000 and afraid that you might lose your house, do you tell this to your six year old child? Would you be lying if you only said "Money is tight right now"?

As for finding a new best friend, it depends on the child. If I had been told to lose my best friend from elemtary school, I would have been crushed. We were best friends for 5 years and it only ended when we went to different schools. We're good friends now.

As for a letter being better than my idea, it probably is given that a BS usually cannot keep his or her mouth shut and therefore is likely to have an angry outburst and look the worst for wear. However, for those who have control and whose spouse insists on breaking off the affair in person, it's an option. After all, the BS can only control so much. If a WS wants to break it off in person, she may, even after she's sent a no contact letter.

Also, I would like to point out that not all experts agree on any one way to end an affair or to save a marriage. It is valubale to consider alternatives, even if the end result is to follow the exact path Dr. Harley lays out in his books.

I can remember back when I was visciously attacked over wanting to expose to OM's teenaged children.

What changed?

Didn't they have a right to know, and possible a part in breaking up the affair that destroyed my family?

shock, if you never listen to another piece of advice, listen to what you're hearing on this board. Expose to the OWH immediately. He has the right to know that terrible damage has been done to his M. IMO, your WH is behaving like a coward - he doesn't want the OWH to know because there may be repercussions in it for him. And he's suddenly full of concern for the state of his AP's marriage? Please. Neither he nor his AP were worried about it before, were they. His feelings or opinions are immaterial right now. Expose.
Don't waste your time or breath meeting personally with the OW. She doesn't deserve a minute of it. And there's a good chance the meeting could devolve into something that is out of your control. Don't give the impression that she is so important that she deserves an audience with you. Your WH needs to send a NC letter that YOU approve, and YOU mail. And he needs to keep it short and sweet. I know a vet will be along with an example shortly.
Settle in for a major snoop session. You'll need all of your WH's passwords, email accounts, access to his cell phone, bank statements. Shut down any social networking sites that he may belong to. He has lost his right to privacy.
Believe it or not, your DS probably already knows enough to know that something's not right with mommy & daddy, and somehow his bf's mommy is involved. They're pretty sharp at that age. He needs to know some of what's going on. There is an age-appropriate way to do that. Stillhere's example is a good one. You don't need to give all of the gritty details. Your son's bf probably needs to be eased out of the picture. Keeping the kids' friendship is still too close for your WH and his AP, even with you and the OWH trying to control the playdates.

He should have thought about that BEFORE. Too bad, so sad. Now he pays the consequences.

And if you don't tell OW's husband, they will continue their affair - they'll just hide it better.

What do you want to teach your kids?

But GG, you are not an expert, and can't back your opinion up. Nowhere in MB literature does Dr Harley advise not telling children. Dr. Harley is a clinical psychologist with 35+ years experience and he is right. Lying to children about adultery is very damaging to them. If the child is not told the truth, they imagine the worst and are left vulnerable to the lies of the WS. This happened to me as a child and it has happened to others here.

Like Dr Harley stated, its lies that hurt children, not the truth. Her son is going to hear about this eventually and he needs to be prepared. You simply have no basis for objection whatsoever.


An option.........where? Please give me a citation of where this "option" resides in Marriage Builders literature, articles, posts? I have never seen this "option." Sending the letter is preferred, not because the BS "can't keep her mouth shut" but because the WS SHOULD NEVER SEE THE OP AGAIN. No contact means no contact, ya know?

Here is an excerpt from one of Dr Harley's articles: Coping with Infidelity: Part 2

Do you mind if we stick to Marriage Builders concepts here, GG? This woman has come to MARRIAGE BUILDERS, after all. She didn't come here to hear my personal unqualified opinion or yours. She didn't come here to "consider alternatives." She came here to find out about Marriage Builders. Can we help her in that pursuit?

GG I often agree with you but not about this. Mel is right. Children suffer with broken families regardless of whether or not it was adultery that broke up their home. If the marriage is threatened, the child WILL BE HURT. Period. End of sentence. The important thing is not to prevent that hurt, which you can't, but to give the child the best tools for dealing with it.

We do everything we can to protect our children from every least little disappointment. And even so, life is unfair and bad stuff happens. These are the times to teach them values and morals. And the gift that you give them, along with your honest, is a chance to work through what life has dealt them. Children instinctively blame themselves for divorce. Do you think it makes a difference to say, "There, there, dear. It's alright. It's not your fault."? When was the last time those words comforted you? They don't. The truth doesn't, either, but it does give them the tools to cope. "Mommy has a boyfriend and that's against the rules of marriage" is something even a 4 year old can understand and thoroughly comprehend.

As for your example, what do you suggest telling a little boy when he asks for an Xbox and you are one step away from being homeless? You don't have to give them the gory details - just the basic facts and information that they need. "Sweetie, we are having some tough times right now and we all need to pitch in and try to save money."

Tell him in an age-appropriate manner. Someone upthread summed it up very well. Daddy has a girlfriend and married people don't date other people. Daddy's girlfriend is your friend's mommy. So Daddy has agreed he will not see your friend's mommy again.

Dr. Harley cites the exposure of his father's affair to him [and accompanying moral guidance] as a young boy as one of the most profound, life changing experiences of his life. He said it opened up his eyes to the hurt adultery causes others and prepared him for life. He stated that because of this experience, he learned to avoid adultery himself at all costs. He also grew up and devoted his life to helping others recover from it.

Being told of a parents adultery is a good experience when accompanied with moral guidance because it prepares children for life.

My own father was a serial cheater and my mother NEVER spoke of it. This left me profoundly morally confused growing up. I was introduced to my fathers skanks. This seemed wrong to me as young as age FOUR, but since no adult would validate my instincts, I came to the conclusion that I must a stupid girl. Obviously what seemed wrong to me was not wrong to adults. I learned to doubt my instincts about right and wrong at an early age.

I was also left very vulnerable to my fathers immoral teachings in the vacuum that was left by my mothers silence.

My other brothers and sisters are cheaters or serial cheaters. I am the only one who did not grow up into an adulterer.

Yes- Confront the OW, albeit, in a safe & sane manner; either via telephone, letter, email, or in person (but take a friend with you for support & to keep things under control). "I know you've been having an adulturous affair with my husband, it ends today." Firm and to the point. Really, nothing else needs to be said.

Yes- Expose to people who have influence in your WH's life, who will help you end the affair. DO NOT warn him that you're going to expose, just do it. Ask those people to support your marriage by talking with your WH about his affair. You'll be surprised at who'd be willing to support your M and eventually forgive your WH (if he earns the "former"). This is where you learn who your true friends are.

No- Do not let him end it in person, and don't let him do it alone. He ends it with a NC letter that YOU deliver. I like certified & registered mail for it's documentation purposes. You never know if you'll need some form of documentation for legal reasons, down the road.

I don't see how you can maintain NC and the kid's friendship.

I had (sort of) a similar situation with my C when he was six going on seven. My DS was told that a specific person was toxic to our family, and that mommy and daddy would do whatever it took to protect our family from this person. So from here on out that person was not safe for us, and was not welcome in our lives in any way. DS accepted this without hesitation. He knows that not everybody in the world is a good person, and he trusted us to set this boundary for him.

I'd suggest telling your son a version of what the other poster said about Mommy's and Daddy's not giving their love to anyone else, and then end it with that person is not safe for your family, and to protect your family, you cannot have playdates with little Johnny anymore.


I'm so sorry you're here, but you are in the best place to get help for your situation.

I agree it should be age appropriate. Additionally, I would make DARN SURE the child understands the word ADULTERY and why it is immoral. If he doesn't grasp that this is BAD and why it is BAD, he will walk away believing it is just another lifestyle choice.

When my D19 was about 8, we had to tell her that she could no longer be with her grandfather and (step)grandmother unless we were with her. (Evil Stepmother did something heinous to us, and I was afraid she would take D8 and move away with her, to spite me.) Years later, we explained to her what had happened. But she had accepted it just fine. Things change in kids' lives all the time; they rely on their parents to explain it all to them. As long as you do it correctly and compassionately, and let them know they can always ask you about it, it will not be an issue.

Children lose friendships all the time. I told D19 growing up that it was a natural occurrence to move from one friend to another (she had several best friends move away), and she grieved a bit and then moved on to her next group of friends.

If you want to save your marriage, you will dissolve ALL contact with this family. AFTER you expose to OWH - without warning them!

And NO - there will be NO negotiation between you and your H on how the NC is handled. YOU run this show, ok?

When I have time, I will provide citations of other "experts" on other ways to end an affair, and also why it would be inappropriate to tell a child of 6 about an affair. The interesting thing about experts is that they often disagree. They especially disagree about things when there is little to no empirical data to support theses. That is why listening to a variety of view points from various experts can lead to better understanding and decision making for our individual situations.

I will emphasize that Dr Harley pointed out that there is no empirical data that demonstrates telling kids the truth about adultery causes harm. There is nothing inappropriate about telling children the truth. If there is, I would like to see it and we could even forward it to Dr Harley and get his opinion.

GG, I don't know if you noticed, but the sign on the door is Marriage Builders. We are here to discuss and learn about Marriage Builders, not to confuse newcomers with conflicting views from other sources. I have been here a very long time and don't know of any better program than Marriage Builders. That is why we are here. But if someone wants to pursue another program, they are free to check out their website.

But this forum is for Marriage Builders. That is what these people come here for.

Mel,

Dr. H does in fact say that the policy of radical honesty does NOT apply to the children, only the married couple.

I agree saying nothing, or that "things are fine" is not in the child's best interest, but given the age laying "radical honesty" on the child is probably not good either. They are powerless to address the situation.

I think a well considered statement that there are problems between mom and dad and that there are other people involved is the way to go.

JL

PS: Mel GG is offering you evidence that it can hurt the child. You can accept it or not, but it is her data. I agree that the child should be told, but how is a very delicate matter.

JL, he always advocate telling the children about the affair - I posted several of his quotes above. I did not say he advocated a policy of radical honesty with children. But he DOES state quite clearly that children should always be told about adultery.

Kids need to be told what adultery means and why it is bad. Anything less than that may leave them with the impression that the adultery is endorsed. This is the time to give them clear moral guidance so they will not be vulnerable to their wayward parents lies.

I agree Mel,

I was/am worried that the poster might take the advice as "laying radical honesty" on this poor child. It may be a subtle point, but I think it is a very important point. The idea is to NOT turn the child against the WS, but make sure that the child is not lied to or misled by the WS. A child, actually neither can an adult, protect themselves from something they don't know about.

So they should know enough to protect themselves. This is in my mind a far cry from discussing "adultery" before a child can really understand that the WS failure doesn't make the WS an enemy for life.

JL

And I am offering up anecdotal evidence that not telling them harms them. Which lines up with exactly with Dr Harley's 35+ year clinical experience.

Further, she does not have evidence that telling a child harms them; she may have evidence that ADULTERY hurts a child, and I would agree.

Dear Shock,

First, I am sorry that this is happening to you. I think you have found the best place for good practical information about how to deal with affair. On this site, MelodyLane is arguably THE most informed poster about marriagebuilder principles. I think her advice in your situation is sage.

For what it is worth, when I suspected my H of having an A (but did not yet have irrefutable proof), I asked him if he was having an affair and he said, "No". Two days later, he decided to talk to the OW to "cool it off". Within an hour, they were in the sack, going at it hotter than ever.

Here are my two cents worth:

1. Don't negotiate the "closure" with your H. Ask (require) him to have no contact with the OW. Ask him to write a no contact letter (It took my H three months to get the point of writing an NC letter).

2. Contact the OWH today and tell him about the A. Your H is more concerned in protecting his OW than in staying married to you right now. In my case, I called the OWH without warning H - told him about it afterward. OWH was not surprised at all and became a good ally in busting up the A. Each time there was contact, I got on the phone and told him about it.

3. Tell your DS in age appropriate language that OW son can no longer be a playmate. I concur with the posts above that advocate this. Kids are so tuned into what is happening around them. He may even recognize that something is not right, but not know what it is. He may think the "not right" aspect is his fault somehow.

Best wishes at this difficult time.

AM