My WS is living with the OW. When my kids go for their visits with their father, they are also in the company of the OW (and her kids).

My kids are 14 and 10. Both kids know that their father had an affair with this woman and their relationship was the cause of our separation.

I have told both of them that what their father did was wrong. They have also witnessed first hand the damage and emotional distress this has caused me and other family members.

My question is, how do I teach my kids that what their father and the OW are doing is wrong when they are continually in the presense of them together as a couple? And, it doesn't help that the relationship is being "tolerated" by his family and friends. I'm worried that my kids may think that because some people choose to support the relationship, that it is acceptable.

How do I approach this when it is clear they are getting mixed messages about their father's relationship?

Sounds like you are still legally married? If so, get a lawyer. See if you can restrict this woman's access to your kids. Are you separated legally or did he just up and leave? You may need to negotiate a legal separation in order to deal with this. Sorry I don't have more detailed suggestions, but check out information on Plan B on this site and in the forums. And definitely get a lawyer.

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You say in your sig line...DDay was April 2009. I assume you are no longer married.

If you are legally divorced and telling your kids that their father is a bad person doing bad things...shame on you. His affair was wrong - no doubt...but if this OW isn't a threat or harmful person to your kids then you shouldn't be doing that.

I'm no "old-timer" by any means, but if you haven't been married to him for over a year but you're still upset because the kids see the OW...you might have to just get over it. That might sound harsh...and I agree it sucks (I'm sorry), but if you aren't married anymore and he has moved on with a new relationship - that's life. Is it crappy...yes...but it is what it is.

I will still stand my ground on the fact that telling your kids intimate details like that about an affair, causes for divorce, blaming the OW he is with now, etc... can be very poor choices. Their your kids to raise though...not mine. I know my kids will NEVER know details of why their mom and I divorced or who the other "players" involved were. That is just not info that kids should have to process. You're essentially asking them to support you or him - that's a horrible choice to make a kid choose.

Lying to children to whitewash the crimes of adults only teaches children dishonesty. That is gross dereliction of duty. Children should always be told about the adultery of their parents because it affects their lives too. Dr Harley takes the position that children should always be told.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

here



here

here

The original poster has not been back to this thread since October 2009, so I doubt that she will read your advice.

However, it is amongst the most immoral advice I have ever read here. The shame is not on her for wanting her kids to know that their father's relationship with OW is wrong. His leaving for her is the reason why their family is broken and they and their mother's lives have been wrecked. They should know the truth about this and not be fed some lie that their parents were 'just not getting along".

The shame is on YOU for telling her to apply your own immoral standards to her life.

You are in an affair right now, and you might well leave your wife and children over it. You want to live what the poster Mulan calls 'the fantasy of divorce", where no matter what harm you do to the family now, you will all get along later and nobody will remind you of your crime. You know that what you are doing is gutless and cruel and you do not want to be reminded of this for years to come by seeing your kids' disgust with you. You want them to validate your appalling cruelty by pretending that it there is nothing with wrong with abandoning them over an affair.

This board is Marriage Builders and neither the posters here nor Dr Harley will ever condone affairs and abandonment over them.

That the WH has moved on is indeed life, it is indeed crappy, it does suck and people in this situation will eventually have to get over it, but they do not have to lie to their kids about right and wrong to validate the choices of adulterers and make people like you feel good.

My personal situation doesn't have anything to do with my personal belief that young children shouldn't (and can't) have to process ADULT emotions / situations related to affairs, infidelity, and divorce.
They DO have to deal with divorce and will need a LOT of help coping with the after-effects of their parents poor decisions.

My kids are 18 months and 5 yrs old. NO children at that age can handle situations related to sexual affairs, OW / OM, or the intimate details of why people get divorced. To put that on them is (regardless of what any Dr. says)...WRONG.

Captain, yours is the warped perspective of an active cheater who does not have his own children's best interest at heart. Cheaters only care about themselves and are products of self will run riot. It is heartless of you to break up their family with your own adultery and therefore inappropriate for you to say what is best for them. Dr Harley, on the other hand is a clinical psychologist who is experienced in the effects of adultery on the family and marriage.

It is even more heartless to lie to them about the reasons for the demise of their family. Children usually understand the concept of adultery as young as 4. I had a father like you, an adulterer, who introduced me to his OW at age 4. My instincts told me something was very wrong but since my father was corrupt, he never validated that instinct. I decided I must be a stupid girl. It was profoundly morally confusing.

It is immoral to suggest that your children should be lied to in order to whitewash your crimes. A better solution would be to stop acting in an immoral shameful manner that motivates you to hide and cover up.

Also, adultery affects the whole family, not just the adults. The kids are the biggest victims.

Well, it's a good job that you are unlikely to influence anybody here with your personal beliefs. I don't think that there's much danger that people here will listen to the wisdom of an unrepentant adulterer who is determined to inflict "the after-effects of their parent's poor decisions" on his innocent babies.

"Regardless of what any Dr. says". Nobody will take such a poor level of judgement seriously.

My son has been continually around my xh's affair partner (he married the ow the day after our D was final b/c ow was pregnant)and YES there is a reason why this is wrong for kids.

Why? First, it forces kids to do something that is fundamentally wrong and kids understand right and wrong. It makes them wonder why anybody would tell them to do something wrong (condone an ema, condone the breakup of their nuclear family).

It makes the water in their lives further muddied. I was forced as per our custody agreement, and since he married the ow, I didn't have a choice sadly. But there is a far sadder reason and it happens further down the road and it also involves the kids' hearts.

My x and ow/w had a baby. She's a sweet little girl of 6.5 now. And just like ALMOST ALL affair marriages, they don't last, and most affairs simply don't last if they continue period. My xh AGAIN continued his lifestyle, and cheated on his "soul mate" "life partner" "woman he has loved more than the world could imagine" (those are lines I was told during the ema with her). Yep, he continually cheated on her throughout their affair-age. To the point where she, the xow is now divorcing him.

Their sinful affair-age has brought EVEN MORE HURT to three innocent children. The x ow/w had a son from a prior relationship who is a year younger than my son. My son is 12, and their daughter, 6.5, are all so sad b/c they haven't seen each other in 3 months.

You see, waywards who continue being wayward (yes, the xh and imho xow/w are still wayward) only care for themselves. I have sadly called and called the xow (whom I now get along with and have for the last few years since she heart felt apologized to me and realized apparently after she felt the pain of being cheated on, that she did something horrible to me and my son)who now has to work crazy hours and work all the time since she has chosen divorce, it is hard to get the kids together and my son misses his little half-sister.

Right now in our home (I'm happily remarried and my son loves my H and all is good under our roof), there are two groups of unopened Christmas presents, the ones for my sons' half sister and his former step-brother. I'm sad the xow/w can't figure out when we can get the kids together (I've even offered to have them spend the night w/us), or have them visit.

You see, she has moved an hour away and in our area, another side of town can sometimes be over an hour away.

Their affair marriage began out of putting themselves first. My son experienced that pain. Their now affair divorce came out of again, cheating and now more children, including mine feels this pain.

This is why imho, affairages are HARMFUL to children in general. Most likely that affair-spawn relationship will crumble as Dr. Harley said, as it was created on a foundation of lies and deceit, and then there are more kids, possibly, to endure further hurt at the hands of one adulterous parent.

I am angry and sad my precious boy has to endure the end-result of his fathers' actions and keep a plan B type situation in place FOR MY CHILD because we all know what will happen next. In fact, it may have happened already, and that would be my xh in pursuit of the next ow (he's not yet divorced).

My son in his 12 years, has never said anything so profound as this that he told me recently about how he feels about his dad/their divorce/and the future:

"Mom, I'm just tired of dad and what he's done. I'm honestly worried he will meet somebody else and then I have to have a new stepmom AGAIN and maybe they'll have another baby I won't see or there will be step brothers or sisters I really don't want to have to get to know. I wish he'd stop all of this. Can we just not deal with him anymore? I'm tired of all he has done."

From the lips of children to the ears of God.

Go think on this one, Capt'n. And everybody else, show this to your ws and let them see what their future could be.

I'm back here at MB seven years later, because I have to help my child deal with a terminally wayward father and the fallout is unbelievable. And even with my having full custody it's still unbelievable.