To bad all the threads are gone so I don't have to explain this all over again, but here's the quick summary:

First off my partner and I weren't married, (I know, I know ..) but have been together for 9 years, so for these purposes I'll refer to her as the WS and me as the BH.

I was on vacation this summer and the WS met the OM in a bar. According to her they only had a EA for 1 week before she broke it off before I got home. (The cell phone records would indicate that this is true). Well when I got home we had a blow out argument and I wrote her a letter telling her to leave (I have an emotional abuse problem). I didn't really mean for her to leave, but the next day she did and went right to the OM. She then got her own apartment and continues seeing the OM (she still hasn't changed her cell phone contract so I can see all the calls). That was 6 weeks ago.

At first she refused to even talk to me, just communicating via email and text message. I have been trying a remote Plan A if you will by giving her things she needs and sending gifts. The gifts seemed to open up the door a bit and we have seen each other and talked on the phone a few times now. However much of the conversation has been superficial and she won't really address subject of the OM or even our relationship. She has however told me that things might work out between us.

I have acknowledged that I have been verbally abusive to her at times and have sought counseling for it, which she seems to appreciate. She made a comment about not coming back and then having to leave again.

This past week though she asked to borrow money (which is amazing since she had quite a bit in her savings account when she left). I snooped her bank statement that arrived in the mail and see lots of eating out and bar bills as well as about $1000 in cash withdrawals. This makes me think she may be giving money to the OM, who I doubt has any from the little I know of him. I gave her some money, but feel like I'm being used.

Anyway she wants to have coffee this week and agreed to a joint counseling session next week which seems promising, but I also feel like she might give me the "lets go our separate ways" talk. Of course the contact between her and OM continues. Where do I go from here, this is completely exhausting?

Also, if we get to counseling how should bring up the affair. She won't acknowledge what she has done as being an affair since she felt like she only really started the relationship after she moved out.

Do not give WW money. A BH never finances a WW's affair. I also believe that the went physical right away. WW's will never admit to this because it will put them in a bad light.

Make sure this counselor is pro marriage and familiar with Dr Harley's concepts.

But you will be better of having you and your WW each have a phone session with the Harley's because MC is a waste when the affair is on going.

The Harley's have a good shot at reaching WS's in the beginning.

Well I guess part of the issue is that she won't even acknowledge that what she has done is an affair beyond one comment about her hurting everyone involved and making a big mess. Should I continue to tiptoe around this, or confront her on it?

Also to clarify I didn't know about the affair when I told her to leave, the argument was just over her coming home late (due to the affair it turned out).

I'll suggest that she have a session with the Harley's, but she seem really resistive to anything I suggest at this point.

How old are the both of you?

Why separate vacations?

We're both 37. The separate vacation was with my dad. He got the trip for free and could only take one person and his wife couldn't go. It was amazing trip until I got back

Nexus, I too came from a long-term relationship, we had a house, a kid, everything but a marriage.

The problem with this is that it's just too easy to leave, so even though we said we were "practically married", practically married is NOT married.

We both view things alot differently, now that we actually are married. It *is* different.

Look up Dr. Harley's Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders. Your ex-SO is being a Renter.

Why hadn't you married?

I know, I know. I've been over this in the other thread. I'm now in complete agreement with the 'no living together before at least being engaged' school of thought. I guess we never married because we thought we were "modern" and that it was just so easy after she moved in to just let it go on that way. I think she was actually really hurt by the fact that we never married, of course that was one of the many things we never communicated properly about.

Hi all, I still need to know if I should confront her and tell her that what she is doing is an affair and that I expect her to leave the OM?

nexus, verbal abuse and physical assault are pretty common traits of live together situations. Dr Harley calls it the curse of "LTBM", living together before marriage. The reason for the abuse is that LTBM is a month to month renters agreement. Renters use short term strategies like sacrifice and when sacrifice is not forthcoming, the other partner usually becomes more and more abusive. Renters keep SCORE, in other words, and use abusive tactics to settle the score when it is not deemed in balance.

From Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders, pg 118:

And my experience working with cases of domestic violence in marriage almost exclusively involves couples who lived together before married. So cohabiting not only leads to failed marriages, but it also leads to violence whether or not the couple ever marry. With the renters agreement in force, demands, disrespect, and anger are the norm. Cohabiting couples don't look for solutions that make both of them happy. They look for solutions that make one person sacrifice for the happiness of the other. And if sacrifice is not forthcoming, punishment is inflicted.

If you don't have it yet, you might want to check out the book. It has a whole chapter on this subject that you might find helpful. good luck.

Thanks, wow, that pretty much describes the situation. We both expected major sacrifices from each other and were not so nice when we didn't receive them. I order the book yesterday.

Just to be clear, I was never even remotely physically abusive, it's just not in my nature. Mostly it was controlling behavior, angry outbursts and condescending comments.

Sooo ... it still begs the questions, how do I approach this situation besides working on myself? It seems that she needs to be confronted about the affair at some point. I have already exposed it and even her sister has been supportive of me.

Personally, I don't consider this an affair at all, you are not married and she is a free agent. I would focus more on tactics devoted to completely changing your relationship from a renters agreement to a buyers agreement. If she is even willing. She may just walk away.

If you are both willing, the book explains how to change this into a buyers relationship and getting married afterwards.

Well, I understand what people are saying about us not being married, but we have been together for nine years and considered ourselves committed for life, so in my book it's still an affair.

nexus, I am sorry for what you are enduring, but in reality, this is no different than dating. Sure, she cheated on you because you had an exclusive agreement, but this is not adultery.

Well, I had lunch with her today and we had a good talk. She is still waffling a bit about getting back together, but seems to be mostly in favor of it. She also considers ourselves married in all but name (yes I know it's different ...) and that we committed to each other for life. She also understands that she has to end her other relationship, although I can tell she not fully ready to do it yet (I'll avoid calling it an affair to avoid getting scolded about not being married again) and said she wishes none of this had ever happened. We're going to a joint counseling session on Monday, so overall I feel like things are looking up, so I guess I could say Plan A is working for now.

Ugg, so of all thing the counselor canceled due to family emergency. Oh the irony. Anyway, I ended up talking to her on the phone on Monday night for quite awhile and it seems that more than anything she's still angry at me for what I did. However she seems to be starting to realize what she's doing isn't right. When I asked her if she knew someone who was doing what she's doing what would she think and she answer that she would think they were crazy.

Anyway, she agreed to go to dinner on Wednesday night, so that's progress I guess. She says she will start talking to her family and get individual counseling as well. Her sister has been very supportive of me, so I think that will be a big help.

I read the 'Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders" book the other night. Probably the best relationship book I've ever read. It really made it clear how we had a very long term Renter/Renter relationship that lead to a lot sacrifice and resentment on both our parts. It also explained perfectly why I felt like I should be able to control her due to resentment over financial issues.

I tried to explain some of it to her, but she didn't really get it. I'll see if she will read the book. If she doesn't want to try and work to turn things into a Buyer/Buyer relationship I know that I will need to walk away myself.

Question? Should I try and get her to read the "Surviving an Affair" book? (Yes, I know it's technically not an affair .... but much of the same dynamic is at work here)