My husband, WH, is a retired CSM USArmy, and still works pretty much the same job he had in the army. Anyways, we have been married 32 years, and have two grown children, and 1 grandchild. I just found out In August that husband while up in another state for 4 monthes with his job, had a two night stand with a OW, who was also in the same state, with her job. I found out, because WH was acting strange, and one day he changed all of our passwords to all of our accounts so I didn't have access to them. He also changed his direct deposit into his own personal bank account. I couldn't understand why he was acting so wierd, so one night I checked out his bag he carries to work, to get the passwords. Well, I got alot more than that. I noticed he had another email account I didn't know about, so I went to the email account, (he also wrote his password down), and found email after email from this OW to WH talking about their weekend they spent together and they continued for 4 1/2 monthes talking to each other after she left the state. The amount of text messaging and phone calls between them were so many, I can't even begin to tell you the amount. They told each other the loved each other and they had talked of planning a future together. I was so shocked! I don't remember much, I just remembering crying hysterically and thinking this can't be happening to me. Me, and WH have known each other since I was 13. We seperated for a while and then he wanted to come home and work on our marriage. I am not as confident as him. Every time I look at him, I think about him being with OW. I think I did all the things most of us do when they have been betrayed and hurt so badly. I called OW and OWH, and told OW alot of stuff that I won't repeat and told OWH that his wife had been sleeping with my husband. Needless to say I think he was in shock. I am having such a hard time getting over the betrayal and hurt I feel. I don't know what to do. I don't think I will ever forget and am not sure how to forgive. To me this is the worst thing possible he could have done to me. It has torn my family apart, and he wants to make it work. We both have our own individual counselors, and we go to a marriage counselor also. But my feelings of hurt are so bad that I don't think it is helping me. How long does it take before you can move on? I don't know if I even want to save the marriage. I can't believe WH did this to me. A two night stand with a woman that he didn't know a thing about except her name and her job, basically and then wanted to leave his family to be with her! OW has 4 children, that are still in school. My husband didn't even know that. I knew more about her than he did!!! Yeah I did my research. And I still have those feelings of revenge. I just need to move forward and don't know what to do! I am tired of crying, and walking around like a zombie.
WH 50
BW 49
OW 42
OWH 43

Hi, HDTH...welcome to MarriageBuilders...

First, please study and learn about infidelity. First fact is that affairs are fantasy...which is why they make no sense...why he would think of leaving for someone he doesn't know...

because you're real...not fantasy...you really know him and he knows you...do not treat the OW (other woman) like that.

Please consider editing out all the initials from your post. We use these acronyms for anonyminity...you are the BW (betrayed wife)...he is the WH (wayward husband or WS for wayward spouse)...OW or AP (affair partner) and OWH (husband of OW)...

When you're really tired of crying and zombiehood...you're going to stop crying and begin studying, researching...focusing on what you want most...which is personal recovery...and decide if you want martial recovery as well.

Either way, only YOU are in charge of your own personal recovery from this grave betrayal.

Only you can choose your goal, what you want...as each and everyone here on this board had to choose...

and you will have support, understanding, and will be shared with on how other BW's and BS's recovered...and went on to thrive.

WH's affair had NOTHING to do with you...was totally about him...and that's the first punch to your gut...so deal with that first. Read all the articles here by Dr. Harley and get the book "Surviving an Affair"...goes a long way in helping with your personal recovery...breaks a lot of myths about adultery.

LA

PS...you don't move on from infidelity...it's recovery or staying in zombieland...choose recovery...you're worth it. You always were.

Thank you for replying to me and I appreciate your advice. Notice I did go back and change those initials. I am really thrilled that you and yours were able to make your way back to each other. You said affairs are fantasies. I agree with you somewhat, but I still don't believe that it makes it right. My moral and values are placed much higher than my husbands for obvious reasons. I had plenty of opportunities to have my "fantasies" since my husband was gone for most of the time because he was in the military. And I chose not to do that. My family, and husband were my life. I gave up my education because we constantly were moving all over the world, because I thought my place was to keep my family together, support my husband, and in the end, the affair happened. Every time I would excepted into the program I wanted, he got orders. So I have a little resentment in the fact that I did give up everything for him, and he did this to my family. My children, my parents, everyone close to me, and was here to help me pick up the pieces. I am not saying that it is not possible, but right now I am still hurting from his actions. I am afraid that he might do this again down the road, and I am unsure if I want to go through this pain again. I admire those who can put their relationships back in order and have normal happy lives. I just don't know if right now I am ready. I everyday have a good attitude, and have begun doing for me. I always took care of everyone else. Now I want to take care of me and do the things I want to do. I have started excercising and I am going to be starting volunteer work with abuse and battered women. (No I was not battered at all) I might even start working with homeless shelters. I want to give back and do something meaningful with my life,and I feel that he has tarnish everything I have accomplished over the years. I need to stay busy so maybe I won't think of OW. Thanks again, and I am truely happy for you. And the advice was wonderful. I did take it to heart.

I can identify with your feelings of betrayal and devastation. Almost eleven months ago, just after our 41st anniversary, I discovered that my H was involved with a woman half his age and had been for several years. With discovery of the affair, he was immediately remorseful and felt that he could not face me. He was mortified that he could have jeopardized all that he had worked all his life to achieve (family, reputation, friends, financial stability). Thinking I would kick him out, he said he would give me everything; but he was wrong. Despite the fact that he said he would give me everything, including the majority of his future earnings, I wanted more than that. I wanted the "happily ever after" that we had promised each other in 1967.

We are eleven months into recovery and we will make it. We attended the MB Weekend and are completing the MB at-home course. He is once again the devoted husband that he had been for all the years prior to the A. It has taken a lot to get to this point. I no longer cry every day. He, however, tears up regularly (he was never a crier before) and tells me how much he loves me. Why wouldn't he? I loved him enough to save him from the pit of degradation that he had dug for himself with his selfishness. I have never stopped loving him. I just will never be the same trusting person that I once was. I no longer believe in fairy tales. I am now working alongside my husband to maintain the marriage that we both want.

You won't move forward quickly. It takes months and years, not hours and days. When did you find out about his affair? That is what we call DDay (discovery day).

Right after DDay you will be a wash of emotions. You'll be furious, terrified, you'll rut like rabbits, and do it all again.

Many BS get really REALLY angry about six months post Dday. It takes about that long for you to get past the adrenaline driven survival behavior. About six months post Dday you begin to accept that your world has NOT ended.. and you get furious at WH for putting you through all this crap.

Then, if you're both working on it, recovery really gets underway and about two years post Dday you'll be a couple again, but not a carefree couple yet.

Five years or so post Dday you'll realize you no longer include "affair survivor" in your definition of self. That's a good feeling.

You say you don't think you can ever forget and you don't know how to forgive. I don't think either of you ever SHOULD forget. Remembering this horrible time will help you value your marriage more than ever in the future. You'll both remember the wretched cost of not making the care and protection of your marriage the top priority in your lives. Remembering this time is useful and serves a valuable purpose.

I'm not big on forgiving right away. There are those who say you only hurt yourself by not forgiving, and that forgiving frees you. Personally I am very slow to forgive grievous injuries. I wouldn't worry about forgiveness right now if I were you.

I don't think you asked about trust, but when that topic/question comes up, remember that the onus is on HIM to earn back your trust. It is not on you to give him your trust. Let him earn your trust. To do otherwise is to cheat both of you out of a valuable experience. It will also diminish your recovery. So let him earn your trust.

Welcome to MB.

Welcome to MB. Please know that you are still "raw" in this and that you're likely to go up and down the scale in emotions for quite some time.

My DH and I just celebrated our 32nd anniversary, four grown kids and five wonderful grandchildren. You would never know that we've been through the fire by seeing us together now. We survived and began recovery of our marriage back in 2004. It hasn't always been a picnic but it has been worth it. Back then I wouldn't have given you a dime for the value of our marriage... it was utterly destroyed.

Of course it's a personal choice, but if you have any hopes of recovering your marriage, you've come to the right place. It's a place of healing, learning, tears and cheers.

No advice right now, except to take it slow. Learn and listen.

Hugs to you HDTH.

Thank all of you for your kind responses to my post. Yes I am very raw into this, and still am shocked that this happened. I never would have in a million expected this from him. He is not always the easiest person to get along with, and of course we have had problems like most couples, but this was so upsetting to me, and the betrayal and hurt is beyond anything I thought could ever happen. It is nice but also painful to know that having an affair is so common. Nice, that I have others to talk to about it, besides my counselors, but people who have had the same experiences as me. I hope that things will be on the mend within 6 monthes, but I found out August 22, 2009. and I am still afraid to say I am ready to try to make this work. I can't endure another "fantasy time" if he chooses to do it. I have to know for sure.

"Five years or so post Dday you'll realize you no longer include "affair survivor" in your definition of self. That's a good feeling."

This is a great promise!

Hello HDTH,

I am sorry that you find yourself in this situation, but I think you have arrived at a very good website for good practical information for personal and/or marital recovery. My H and I are retired Army (not sure how much of our story is still on the site - I have a thread in the recovery forum called one year ago but there is a large gap from May until now from the posts that were lost); I arrived on this site about 18 months ago a few weeks after I discovered my H's A.

First, let me say that I think your gut instincts were right on. Contacting the OWH was good. Talking to OW was probably a waste of time. Waywards are in la-la land, high on their own feelings with crazy rationalizations for what they are doing.

Next, I think a good thing to do is to postpone any decisions. I could not decide whether to stay with my H or not either. So, I decided to not decide until April 2010 - two years post D-day. I chose this because there are some things in the literature about ending affairs and recovery.

Third, it would be good to learn as much about infidelity as possible. I actually read Dr. Harley's "Surviving An Affair" before I found this site. An excellent book. Then, if you want to try recovery (see para above) or even if you don't chose to try to recover the M, read two other books, "Lovebusters" and "His Needs, Her Needs."

No contact is a critical piece of ending an affair. That does not mean just sex; it means all contact - no emails, no texts, no phone calls. In my case, H and OW worked together (she was an NCO, H was a COL) and it took three months, his Art 15 and retirement before he could bring himself to stop contact with her. It was really a miserable time.

I well remember those first few days after discovery and how awful it was. At D-day plus six months, I was really angry and resentful. My H gave me alot of trickle truth to my questions and didn't really come clean until D-day plus 15 months when I asked for a polygraph. Now, at D-day plus 18 months, we are doing pretty well, but have some bumps in the road. I am so sorry for your pain.

AM

Lest I be misunderstood, five years is a ballpark figure, and it assumes that both parties are actively working on building a good marriage. But it was true for me and I think, from reading on here, that most recovered couples don't define themselves in terms of the affair after about five or so years. They begin to define themselves as "married 15 years" or "parents of 3" or similar.

My WH has been living back home for a month and he acted all sweet and acting like he wanted the marriage to work. However, when I want or need to talk to him about my feelings, he gets angry and sarcastic. He is causing me more stress and I am finally through with it. One thing I learned is that you have discuss your emotions and be honest with each other. I knew the "old him" would come through given sometime, because he has never been a very unstanding or compassionate person. I have know this even before we married, but expected him to at least change somewhat since he slepted around on me, that he would really try to change. I have been in the hospital due to stress, had stress test, endoscopy, MRI, and had endured the pain in my chest since Aug. 22, 2009 since I found out about the OW. I don't understand why he acts like this. He says that he is my punching bag. In otherwords, when I speak about how I feel, he can't handle it, and that makes him my punching bag. I don't think this marriage can be saved after the last few days of him being hateful and sarcastic. Ironically he is going for the next week to DC and that is the very place his affair took place. He said he wanted me to go with him for the week, but he has done nothing but been hateful and mean, I guess to make sure that I will make the decision to not go. I really appreciate all the advice that was given, but I am afraid, that this one can't be saved.

Stand up to him. He thinks he can manipulate you into not talking about your feeling about the affair by acting out and being mean to you everytime you bring it up. When he does that, you tell him you won't take his abuse. If he continues, make there be consequences for his action. File for a legal separation if you have to. Then watch him come back with his tail between his legs. It is all about asserting control and enforcing your boundaries.

Thanks, but I have done that. He just doesn't want to listen to me while all along he insist that he wants this to work. He says that when I speak about how I feel then he feels he is being bashed all the time. In other words, don't bring up his affair and certainly don't speak about how I feel. I think he really thinks that I should be "over it", by now, just because he can move on with his life. He sleeps like a baby at night, while I am up all night long. He has caused so much stress in my life, and like I said it is causing me to stay sick with real pains and problems. I really think he has no conscience, so tell me how can you make a marriage survive with someone like that? I have suggested that he go to this site and maybe read some of the articles so he could get a better understanding of how I am feeling and how things need to be done to get to the recovery period in our lives, but he hasn't done it yet. Like I said, I think this was his ploy to get to go back to DC where the affair took place. He always seems to have alot of fun on those trips, and he knows I won't trust him up there alone. But he is driving me away quickly and I just think it is time to move on. I don't think he will ever really truely feel quilty about what he has done to us.

Dr. Harley has a four part video on youtube that was very informative to my husband. It may be on this site as well. I have not looked for it here though. As much as my H did not want to talk about the A and how attacked he felt by my anger (yep, there was a huge amount of anger from me for many, many months), after viewing the video, he never suggested that I just get over it. In the video, Dr. Harley reports that BSes feel worse after an A than if they had been raped or suffered the death of a child. Does your H have a clear understanding of exactly what he has done? Does not sound like it to me.

One of the things my H identified in himself was a lack of empathy. Sounds like maybe this is common to your H as well. I don't know if this trait is more likely in military, but it would not surprise me if it is so.

I am sorry about your health problems. Sadly, health problems are non unusual for BSes. Lots of folks have weeks of vomiting, weight loss, inability to sleep, depression, etc. Oh wait, those were all me.

I can understand your thoughts about his going on this trip. Even 18 months post D-day, if H were to go on a trip to somewhere he and OW had been, it would be a problem for me as well.

AM

Then BY ALL MEANS, go with him! Don't let him get away with it!

It's time for you to man up and start expecting equal treatment.

What happened when he came back? Did you tell him you needed him to be completely transparent? Did he agree? Did he give you all his passwords? Do you have a GPS installed on his car? Do you have a keylogger on his computer?

Most importantly, did he give you back access to all your bank accounts? And did he go to the bank with you and fill out the paperwork so that he no longer has the ability to withdraw large money without your signed consent?

If he hasn't done these things, do NOT trust him!

I do have all of the passwords and we opened another bank account which my name was put on. So those things have been done and taken care of. However, just last night another disagreement. I tried to tell him that he may hear what I am saying but he needs to listen. It is almost like the subject switches to him and he feels he is the victim. I am tired of going round and round on this. Until he walks in my shoes, I really don't think he will fully understand the devastation he has brought upon me, and my family too. I just don't have the answers. I am tired of everything and just don't have the energy to fight any more for this relationship. As for the computer, he doesn't use the home computer he uses the one from work, which I don't have access too. Also, the OW has his work number, because I think they know I can track phone calls through the cell phone. I don't know that she hasn't called him, but I don't know that she has either. His job is for the government so I can't really find out anything from that it. I can't even get into his office. Now that he has been found out, I know he will be so careful if he chooses to reconnect with her. He has a GPS but he doesn't use it. OW lives in IA and we are in NC and it would be hard for him to get away without me knowing since I would notice the money for a plane ticket, etc. I guess I am just at wits end. I this morning, feel really nothing. I feel I am in a bad dream that I just can't wake up from.

Couple things:
When I say GPS, I mean have YOU installed a GPS on HIS car that lets you track where he goes?

This is called a DJ - disrespectful judgment. It means that YOU are trying to tell HIM how to feel, think, or do. You have no right to do that. And it has created a husband who thinks - just like millions of other husbands, as it is the way with women vs. men - that it is your job to nag him, to tell him what he is doing wrong.

Basically, it is a communication issue. Men grew up with mothers telling them what to do, what they're doing wrong, and how to do it right. You have stepped right into Mom's shoes. Unless you learn how to communicate better.

If I were you, I would say "I need for us to go to the next Marriage Builders Weekend." There, they will show him all this, so that he can understand that you're not trying to tear him down, but rather bring him closer. YOU are in no position to do this because (1) you are not trained to do so and (2) it's all he's known from you so he won't trust you NOT to tear him down.

So...research the next MB weekend, present it to him and say this is what I need to move forward and to stop harping on you. Let us know what he says.

Well I came to DC with my WH on Sunday Nov. 1st. We will be here through the week. It is hard because this is where he had the A with the OW. He made sure that we didn't stay in the same hotel, and we are not eating at the same place they met, but I am still finding it hard. I was hoping that with us here in DC that he would maybe find time to discuss the OW.He is trying to be considerate and gave me money to go shopping and taking me to all of these nice places to eat, but I find I am still questioning his motives. I know that I should appreciate "his efforts" but find I am constantly looking down the road to the hotel that the OW stayed, and we he slept with her on those two nights. I considering going to the Hotel and even to the nice restarant that they ate at(only once) but not sure that would help me. He wants nothing to do with anything associated with her. The one thing he told me since we have been here, and he told me it may sounds hypercritical, but he wondered what kind of woman would sleep with what he told her as a single man? He says that doesn't make it right, but she up front said she was married, but he lied and told her that he was not married. They slept together that night. So does that make her a whore? In my book it does, and I know there are alot more where she came from. The one thing he says he is trying to figure out is the "Why?" He doesn't know why this trip up to DC he choose to cheat. He is hoping that MC will help him with that question. For me the "why" doesn't matter as much as the fact he did it regardless. It will take a miracle to change him as far as behavior and stuff. The A was the last straw to what has been a love-hate relationship for us. I am just so confused and not sure what my direction will be. I have ask him to open up about the A and he has told me how they met, and even what took place in the hotel room... yep all the gory details.. But I wanted to know. He even remembered her underwear color... but he can't remember much of the conversations they had in the following 4 monthes when they were making plans. He claims he doesn't know the other important details and hopes his counselor can help shed light. I find that I am moody and still want to get both of them back and make them feel the same pain I do. I have in so much I talked to my husbands boss, and he has been embarassed and is even on probation with his job. But I feel my life won't be complete until I make her pay for her roll in destroying my life and my families lives. Is this normal behavior?

Dr. Harley has a ready answer for "why", and doesn't believe exploring that is useful to recovery from an affair:
From http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.html

B.D. learned an important lesson about human nature. Both her friend and her husband are wired to fall in love with whoever they spend the most enjoyable time with, and the fact that her husband fell in love with her friend simply means that she had deposited enough love units to trigger his feeling of romantic love toward her. He was having more fun with her friend than he was having with her. The rest was history.

When it comes to one-night-stands -- or relationships that start as one-night-stands -- Dr. Harley has expressed that it's a different sort of activity: it's the act of sex in a one-night-stand that is an addiction, rather than the specific person. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding a ready quote for this one, but his advice is usually to break the behavior that surrounds the one-night stands: no more overnight business trips, stop being a long-haul trucker, whatever.

I would say time spent asking "why" is pointless. We are all wired to have affairs. What's more important are the extraordinary precautions to prevent a recurrence of the affair.

I know that Dr. Harley says that "we are all wired to have affairs" but I don't necessary agree with that. It is almost like saying "well we all have the potential to have an affair so the WH had one, just work on the future. I mean I don't believe I would ever, ever do this to my family. I have had many opportunites with him gone all the time, military and current job, and I never had. My family always has been my priority and I would never hurt my family the way I have been hurt. WH has to go out of town sometimes for monthes at a time. He works for the government and he just has to unless he finds another job, which he says he is doing. But he is unwilling to take a pay cut. Also, any comments on why my total dislike and almost haterd for the OW. She just stays under my skin. I feel like she basically has gotten away with everything. She was married and thought my WH was single (that is how he portrayed himself) and she had no problems cheating on her husband. When she learned the truth from my WH she wasn't at all phased. To me it almost seems like a way of life to have an affair, and there be no penalty to do it. That to mean almost seems to send the message it is alright that you slept around and destroyed everyone around you, but hear, hear let me help YOU through what you did. To mean that is BS!! I am still angry, hurt and depressed. I will not and have not made it easy on my WH. He will have to win his way back into my life, heart and bed. Ok, I am venting.. today is one of the bad days...lol