You must tell your kids the truth. Kids can handle the truth. They need to know that the OM is an enemy. And, that affairs a wrong.

NC is crucial. If you really can get your WW to have NC with the OM for 2 months, I think things will become so much clearer for her. I know it seems impossible to establish NC. If she still cares about the church, you might be able to use that to get her to stick to NC.

For the next 2 months, Plan A the heck out of her. Meet all of her EN's. Show her how much you love her and care about her. Let her know what she's going to be giving up if she chooses to end the M.

And yes, tell your kids as soon as possible. I guarantee this will become very real for her as soon as she realizes that she has to answer to her children. She's going to see the damage that she has done to them and it will hit her hard. I know it seems scary, but you have to do it, for their sake and for the sake of your M.

I think you also need to start asking yourself some tough questions. Do you want to save your M? If your WW does decide to stay and work on your M, can you accept the OC into your life? Only you can answer these questions. Some people can love and accept an OC and some cannot. Have you checked out the section on this site dealing with Pregnancy and Children? My complete story used to be on there, but the site went down a few weeks ago, and everything was lost. There are some other people over there though who have been dealing with what you are now for a long time. I'm sure they would be able to offer some wonderful advice and insight.

Quick Update:

Last night WW and I went to see Marriage Counselor (MC??) for the first time. Ride down was rough. WW was trying to convince me that divorce is best, how much I screwed up, she's the "primary caregiver" (whatever that means...sounds like an HMO term to me) and thus gets all custody, I can visit when I want, we need to move because she has been alienated, on and on. Somehow I stayed calm enough not to blow up or say much of anything - stuck to Plan A.

Then when we got in to see MC, got the whole thing dumped again, which was expected. But then after WW was finished venting, MC stepped in with some AWESOME insights which really got my wife's attention. The first was that MC confirmed CA custody situation regarding OC - WW might have thought I was lying but this confirmed I wasn't. Secondly, MC spent a few minutes talking about the psychological and physical affects of an affair (why sex is better, how everything is rose-colored, etc.), basically echoing lots of what I already knew but didn't bring up with WW. I think this was an eye-opener for my wife because in her mind, everything was "true love" and I think seeds of doubt may have been planted.

The ride home was polar opposite of ride down. Nothing about divorce, mostly small talk, laughter. No confrontation. And right before we went to bed, she told me she was sorry and that if we had gone to see the counselor in June (2 mos before A), none of this would have happened. Which is funny because while talking to MC, WW said that her relationship with OM had germinated "a long time ago".

Anyways, as painful as the beginning was, the end of the night was not too bad. I'm not letting my guard down because last night she e-mailed OM again and this time got response from him. Not sure what it said yet, don't have access to that account - yet. Need to get a keylogger on my PC. WW has zero self-control right now.

You need to stay in close contact with the OM's wife. Even if she's planning on divorcing, she can't be happy with him and this whole OC situation.
How has her pregnancy been doing lately? You said there was some cramping and bed rest. You know why I'm asking.

Do the kids know mommy is pregnant yet?

No cramping or spotting lately but she's taking it very easy. Given past history, things seem to be progressing per a healthy pregnancy.

No, the kids don't know yet, but obviously, that's going to be tough to hide soon. She shows early in a pregnancy.

Why are you asking? I certainly hope it isn't the reason I suspect. This is a life we're talking about here. I certainly hope everyone keeps that in mind. This tiny human being did absolutely nothing wrong. You know what my OM used as an excuse to not tell his daughters about the baby? That I might have a miscarriage. That is the most unbelievably horrible thing to say to a pregnant woman. And, our OC is 13 months old now (well past the miscarriage faze, I am sure) and he never did tell anyone in his family that she exists. I've put it behind me now and we are completely NC and he has no part in our OC's life, but it took a long time for me to come to terms with how callously he viewed a child that I love with all my heart. To his credit, my H never said or did anything that led me to believe he would be glad or relieved if I lost the baby. If he had, I don't think I would have stayed in my M. I don't think I could raise a child with someone who had so little regard for the value of that baby's life.

indarkness: I'm glad the meeting with the MC went well. Are you seeing someone through LDS social services? We found one counselor through them who was very helpful to us in the early stages of our recovery. Thanks for the update. Hang in there.

Have YOU given any thoughts about what you'd like to see regarding the baby?

BTW: YOUR thoughts and feelings about this child are JUST as important as your WWs.

I know I felt shoved aside A LOT when it came to the OCs - UNTIL I made it clear that my opinion holds just as much water as everyone else's did.

This child is a sibling to your COM....so what you think and do and say regarding this issue IS important.

Writer- I'm asking because the original poster said his wife had a history of miscarriages and had some issues earlier this week. Whether you take that to mean that I'm hoping this pregnancy doesn't reach term really doesn't matter. It's not my marriage. BUT if the pregnancy is in jeopardy, maybe we should wait and see how things progress before we go too far into this whole custody situation. In the wife's eyes, taking about custody might press her into a divorce to avoid the California law.
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Also, Writer, I'm more concerned with the children that this couple already has brought into the world at the moment. Sorry if that seems harsh, but I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to yours. Feel free to start a new thread if you want, because I don't think it's an appropriate thread jack.

I'll admit that when I first found out about the pregnancy, the selfish side of me hoped for a miscarriage. It was cruel and I hated myself for thinking it. But one night, we were saying prayers together and I asked that both my WW and the baby be blessed. That first time was hard but once I did that, i felt OK, that no matter what, whether the OC ultimately made it to term or not, that things would work out, somehow. Since then, I've been, I think, very supportive, particularly given the situation.

I think I would be able to raise the OC. Somebody else posted it, but a father is not the guy who did the deed. The father is the guy who's changing diapers, providing support, cleaning up - all of that. I think it would be pretty vindictive against this child to do otherwise.

I don't think my WW has yet considered the consequences of bringing a child into the world this way - particularly given our religious views. This child is the very essence of innocence and already part of its eternal inheritance has been robbed.

Yes, the counselor is through LDS Family Services - she was very professional. We both liked her a lot.

>The father is the guy who's changing diapers, providing support, cleaning up - all of that.

That would be me who brought it up, the diaper changer, snot wiper extraordinaire.

>I think I would be able to raise the OC.

It's far easier than you think. It's even easier when the OP drops out of sight.

I don't see how my reply qualifies as a thread jack, and yes, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I might have a better understanding of the OP's religious beliefs, since we belong to the same church, a church that places a great deal of value on all human life. And, in California, the law recognizes the H of any woman who becomes pregnant as the legal father of that child. She was married to the OP when the baby was conceived, so legally, CA views that baby as his already. A D after conception wouldn't change that. Only a paternity test could do that, and the H would have to agree to that, or the OM would have to petition the court for one against the H's wishes. It isn't a given that such a request would be honored either.

indarkness: I do think it is important for you to figure out how you feel about this child and if you will be able to raise this baby. Like I said before, that's a question only you can answer. I absolutely believe that DNA does not make a parent. Perhaps this was something my H and I had a relatively easy time with, because neither of us were raised by our biological fathers. I was raised by a single mother and my H was raised by his step-father, who eventually adopted him.

interesting, I had assumed the law said custody determined by H at the time of birth, but it's the H at the time of conception???

I think custody is based on time of birth, not conception. Maybe Mr. Wondering can weigh in. You can't even verify time of conception, legally speaking. THAT is what I'm concerned about. You push the legal side too much and the WW might flee just so she can establish the paternity the way she wants to.
Writer, it's a big difference between raising a step child and raising an OC, as you know. These are issues not to be taken lightly. And, all respect to your understanding of your particular religion, each of us is a different human being with different takes on things. That's all I'm trying to say. If you think I'm being defensive, it's because you were on the offensive with me. Let's leave it at that.

Everytime OM and WW break NC, you need to alert OMW.

This has been discuss recently on Sharpie's thread too. Here's a link to the CA Family Court self help site re: paternity.

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/family/parentage/intro.htm

Indarkness really needs to talk to an attorney regarding this issue to see what his options are. In most states, a stay will be put on the divorce if the wife is pregnant at the time the divorce is filed.

Don't underestimate the evilness of waywards - your WW and OM may already know what the law is and plan to get you big time on this. One thing to think about, what if you and the WW decide to keep the baby, work on reconcilliation, then a few months after the birth of the child she decides to leave for the OM anyways? You could be paying child support to your exWW for the OM's child. Never underestimate the wickedness of waywards. You could be paying your WW to support another man's child for 18 years.

As I see it the options are:

1. File the necessary paperwork to have OM on the birth certificate.
This option gives the OM all the rights of a normal father as well as all the power. He would be hit with child support as well have visitation rights to the child. Or, he could petition for custody and the risk is you pay him child support. Or, the OM may end up being a deadbeat dad who wants nothing to do with the kid. If you reconcille, the OM will always be in the picture. If you don't reconcille, this is the best option to protect the BH.

2. Attempt to reconcille and listed as the father on the birth certificate
I hear the care, nurturing, changing diapers is what makes the father. However, the BH did not ask for this. It was forced on him. In the case of a step raising the kids, the step parent can make the decision whether they want to raise the step kids prior to getting married. A WW pregnant with the OC is by default a foggy WW. Sometimes it take MONTHS for the fog to disapate. True recovery takes longer than a pregnancy so the OC would be born to a BH and WW who are in the beginning stages of recovery. What if it's a false reconcilliation? The BH could now be on the hook to pay child support to the exWW and OM to raise the OM's child! Coming from someone who had to pay the mortgage on the maritial home while OM lived there rent free with WW, this scenario would make me want to skip town to a non-extradition country.

3. Adoption
My sister and I were both adopted. My folks told me once I could understand the concept that I was adopted. I've never had any inclination to find my bio parents. It's never really affected who I am. My sister in her late 20's found her bio mom. She has a relationship with her bio family - she usually visits once a year now and it's worked out really well for her. My mother wrote a really heartfelt letter to bio mom a couple of years ago explaining that her decision to give up my sister was the most selfless action a person can do because of how much happiness it brought my parents. My parents truely feel my sister's bio mom was an angel from heaven. Tell you what though, it's kind of freaky seeing pictures of my sister next to her bio mom since they look exactly the same!

4. Abortion
This option I believe is beyond the scope of this board and I would appreciate it if folks would be respectful of each other's views of this highly personal and controversial topic.

I would like to add that there is some protection built in to the problems listed in scenario #2. In CA, at least, the presumed father has 2 years following the birth of the child to challenge paternity of said child in a court of law. If the WW did decide to leave after the child was born, he would have 2 years to challenge paternity, even if indarkness does put his name on the birth certificate. Two years gives him a lot more time than the 9 months of a pregnancy to figure out the direction that his marriage seems to be going in.

Option #1 is a really bad idea if the OP and his WW decide to work on their M, since it essentially hands the OM a pass to interfere in their lives and their family for the next 18 years.

Option #3 is definitely a viable option, but it may be difficult to get his WW to agree. It was something my H and I carefully considered and ultimately decided against.

I'm not sure if I would advise going to an attorney yet. It might push the WW over the edge if she finds out. If it is the goal for indarkness to save his M, and that seems to be what he wants, going to an attorney while his WW is still sitting on the fence might very well push her over to the other side.

I am also adopted, and I am the product of an affair, though I didn't post to recommend adoption. I have a great life and great parents; it's just that most people don't go that route anymore.

What I wanted to address was the idea of raising a child that is not "yours." My situation is different, and I understand that. But - for a child - to be seen as "some other man's child" - would have to be damaging. I never thought or was told that my parents weren't my reall parents. I did know I was adopted from a very young age, but my dad and mom are my dad and mom. I also have contact with my bio families, but they are not my parents. My parents raised me.

Like I said, I get that it is different. But when decisions regarding birth certificates and realtionships, and thus are discussed, you have to think that at some point down the road, a child is going to know about that. When he/she gets her/his driver's permit, they'll have to see that certificate, for example. This isn't just about financial protection. It's about another person's life and psyche. Just a thought.

> "some other man's child"

My children are not some other woman's children. They are mine, no matter what begetting got them here.

My dad raised some other man's children and he was

THE

BEST

DAD

EVER.