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Quick recap DD #1 9/08.. 6 month EA/PA with co-worker. Exposed to the hilt, both lost their jobs.. WH gets new job and 2 months later starts conversing with another female co-worker..(6/09) Confronted, he stated there was no affair and there was no us.. I hire atty, he does too and serves me first.. (7/09) Moves out first week in September where I went Plan B.. DD4 recently ill thus texts were exchanged about her well being/ who was staying home with her..
He then started texting that he was regretting this move he made, that he now realizes this is the biggest mistake of his life. We meet last night to discuss.. Lots of tears, anger, told him that he needs to earn my trust and the girls trust (DD16, DD14)
I'm torn.. I love him but am very leery that this is really what he wants! I don't want to allow him back to have him do this to us again!! For the 1st time he was soo open, honest, and expressive.. but part of me wonders if this is all a game to him..
I have told him about boundaries, that I will question until he earns my trust, that I must have all passwords, the ability to view his phone without asking.. no texts from females other than family members, etc.. He is 100% on board with it..
I guess it just seems too good to be true.. How do I proceed??
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Proceed. Proceed cautiously. It's a good start.
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Yup, very, very cautiously, to avoid a false recovery. Make a list of what you want and watch his reaction. (Of course, you will be just as open and honest with him as you want him to be with you about passwords, phones, etc.)
Do you both know the difference between privacy and secrecy?
Mulan
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Did you write him a Plan B letter, and if so, has he met ALL conditions.
I wish I had done this. CALL THAT HARLEYS TOGETHER...
I am somewhat going through the same thing. This is hard to trust what is happening. If you have a relationship with G-d, I would SO be talking to him about his guidance and the next indicated step.
Try not to let your heart rule your common sense. If you aren't checking with people on here about what is happening, make sure you are in contact with someone that understands the MB principles and can be a sounding board to what is happening.
And the last thing... HIS ACTIONS... HIS ACTIONS... they will tell you everything.
BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
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I did write the plan B.. I can't say for sure if he has met all conditions I mean I can't be in his pocket 24/7.. This is just the beginning, I mean he has just asked about the possibility of "US" being together again on Tuesday.. so baby steps and proceeding with CAUTION..
My problem is, trust, believing in someone that has told soooo many lies.. I just have a part of me think he only wants to come back because he has dug himself into even a bigger financial hole... I can't dig him out of this one.. more matter how bad I feel for him...
ugh.. sometimes I wonder if I was better off just not talking to him..
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Make it mandatory that he start counseling with the Harleys. Period. No other MC at a time like this. The wrong MC could make him feel "OK" about his past actions, and not make him understand what it takes to affair proof the M in the future. He has serial adulter habits that need to be permanently broken.
But I agree, it's a good sign that he wants back in. Just don't let him off the hook.
Me:BW, FWH 1DD 1DS
Status: Chronicled in Dr. Suess's "The Zax"
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My problem is, trust, believing in someone that has told soooo many lies.. You do NOT have a problem ! You should NOT trust him at all! You should only trust his actions..... PERIOD! Any BS that trusts a waywards words is foolish at best. You should not allow him back into your life unless he is willing to meet some minimum requirements. You should be happy if he refuses to meet any of them, because then you will know that he was just playing games and you can return to the safety of planB This is a list of requirements my wife gave to me; And she knew I was serious when I said I would do them all, no questions asked! REQUIREMENTS TO COMING HOME
Humility
Remorse
Surrender emotionally before me and spiritually before God
Godly sorrow (not fleshly sorrow) (Godly: sorry that I ever had the A & did this to our family. Fleshly: sorry I hurt you)
Authentic repentance
Owns his choices and the consequences they caused (to himself, me, children, extended family, friends, etc.)
Apology for the A and his hurtful actions before and after
Confession & apology to children
Confession to extended family & certain close friends that have confronted him
IC, MC, & Family
Accountability forever to 3 men that I choose
Attend church again
NC Letter
Provide all cell phone & credit card records from this past year
Complete radical honesty about our entire history together
15+ hours together weekly
Pray with me daily
Polygraph
Post Nup agreement that provides for me very well if we ever divorce
Last edited by tst; 10/29/09 09:43 AM.
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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My two cents: for my wife, the day that she finally wrote the no-contact letter to the other man was the day the light switch flipped "off" on that relationship for her. It's been only 2 months so far, but a very clean no-contact with no attempts to contact either way.
How do I know? I still snoop regularly. It's not an every-hour-by-the-hour thing for me anymore, but every week or so I'll check computer logs, phone records, etc. to see if there have been attempts to re-initiate contact.
There were some other points of our recovery plan that were negotiable to me. For instance, in our Extraordinary Precautions, I listed "change your cell phone number". She refused because she's had the same number so long. I agreed, but she further agreed to never delete her call history (I'd see it anyway) and that if he called she would not answer and would call me immediately to let me know he called.
"No-contact" with the other person(s) is non-negotiable... but I would say rank what you are willing to come to alternative agreements on as far as specific extraordinary precautions. My wife felt more invested in the EP process because I did not dictate what those precautions were. We came to agreements together, though she did feel coerced at the time (foggy wayward, after all, having a moment of lucidity enough to vow to fix it).
Two months later, she now wants to change her phone number even though he hasn't tried to call her or she him. She wants to put the same kind of monitoring on the kids that we now have for one another. She's totally on-board with the transparency thing and is pushing our relationship toward new levels of honesty & communication.
Waywards can change. Trust but verify!
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Thank you all SOOOOO much.. I value this site more than anything else!! The advice (of all kinds) is priceless!!!
Now, while I prepare for another long journey with this, what do you do when tell those that you're gonna to try again and they think that you're foolish to allow this with someone that has done this horrific deed?
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Now, while I prepare for another long journey with this, what do you do when tell those that you're gonna to try again and they think that you're foolish to allow this with someone that has done this horrific deed? If you are not allowing yourself to be a doormat and you have requirements in place, then no one will think you are foolish!  For anyone that asks, you can tell them, your right, it would be foolish of me to trust him, which is why I don't. And I won't trust him until he demonstrates several years of actions that lead to a change of his heart.
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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There were some other points of our recovery plan that were negotiable to me. For instance, in our Extraordinary Precautions, I listed "change your cell phone number". She refused because she's had the same number so long. I agreed, but she further agreed to never delete her call history (I'd see it anyway) and that if he called she would not answer and would call me immediately to let me know he called. Barnboy, this may be panning out now, but it was a risk that was not worth taking. Any contact from OM could easily have sent her right back into the fog. This is like a crack addict being allowed to keep her pipe! I'm not blasting you, but I do not want to leave this out there as a good piece of advice for anyone. It was and is waaay too risky. Not to mention, it puts both the BS and WS in a position that they are forced into damage control if the OM would have called. It could easily set recovery back to D-Day.... I've seen it happen! The best solution is always change the numbers, it's a consequence of adultery.
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Did he agree to write NC letters to both OW's??
Letters that you read and that you mail yourself??
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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nthefogg, the others have given you great advice. Whatever you do, don't take him back unless HE WILL COMMIT TO A PROGRAM OF RECOVERY. Otherwise your marriage will be right back in the same place it was before this all happened. It is like a drunk who goes to AA and only does STEP ONE, stopping the drinking, but NEVER does the other steps to actually CHANGE the things about himself that led to the drinking in the first place! And hope is not a plan. There has to be an ACTUAL plan in place. Alot of people think that just stopping the affair and getting over the anger is recovery. It is not! That is just the first step. read this from Requirements for Recovery: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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nthefogg, the others have given you great advice. Whatever you do, don't take him back unless HE WILL COMMIT TO A PROGRAM OF RECOVERY. Otherwise your marriage will be right back in the same place it was before this all happened. It is like a drunk who goes to AA and only does STEP ONE, stopping the drinking, but NEVER does the other steps to actually CHANGE the things about himself that led to the drinking in the first place! And hope is not a plan. There has to be an ACTUAL plan in place.
Alot of people think that just stopping the affair and getting over the anger is recovery. It is not! That is just the first step. Please read this to HEART.... It's absolutely so valuable in helping you overcome.
BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
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I have printed this out.. so I can read and re-read it! Very valuable and I do know 1) I don't want to be a doormat 2) I know that just getting over the affair and anger will not make our marriage survivable.. That a recovery plan needs to be in place, and adhered to..
after DD 1.. I thought we were in recovery but I did not do the above and just as Melody points out, we ended up right back where we were.. I KNOW things must be done differently this time!
While he 'said' he would do anything and everything following DD 1.. it didn't happen and was done half heartedly, probably on both our parts.
Today he surprised the heck out of me telling me he is going to stop by my dads on his way home from work for a face to face.. my dad was the only relative on either side that truly was 'in the middle' he was here on dd1 and on DD2 he was here when I packed WH's bags on left them on the stoop.
Dad has told me that if I was to take him back, he would disown me... Thus WH knows he is the first hurdle (other than myself and my girls) that he needs to take on... To know WH, or how he was, this would NEVER have happened before.. To me, that is a sign, an action he is taking to show he does mean this.. If not, than man, he is truly deserving of an Oscar!!
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Dad has told me that if I was to take him back, he would disown me... Thus WH knows he is the first hurdle (other than myself and my girls) that he needs to take on... This is very convincing to me. The fact that he would face your DAD and make apologies counts for ALOT, nthfog. When I agreed to let my H come back he told me he didn't want to ever face my family again. I told him that I was not giving up ONE MORE THING and would certainly not give up my whole support system because he was a weasel and couldn't face them. Well, he did face my family and apologized to them for hurting me. That went a long way with me.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I would agree with Mel.
The day I stepped off the plane and back into town, my wife and I drove straight to her parents house for a face to face apology and then to another home for a face to face apology after that. I spent the first week home going to the people I had harmed and made ammends. It goes a long way in demonstrating sincerity, but don't let his ammends take the place of the actions I listed out previously. Ammends are only the beginning!
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Well he spent a good hour with my dad. Dad called after he left to let me know he stopped by and they had a 'chat'. He basically said, this is a decision that is up to ME. That there needs to be a 'contract' (boundaries) put in place and that both of us need to be accountable in keeping our end of the bargain in this relationship. He did state he told my WH that he wished he hit in the head with a bat after DD#1 and that my WH said, I wished you did back then too.. WH asked dad to pray for us..
My older DD's are having none of this. They are too angry, don't want him back.. That is going to be a hurdle.. He is making attempts, he knows it will take time.. He states this is going to be a long journey but he has gassed up the car and is ready to go.
Next question is.. how long til I let him back in our home?? I know, since he has moved out, we are both struggling financial.. Him more so than I.. I don't want that to be a reason by any means, but was just curious that since we're taking this opportunity to try and work on us, and since we're telling the attorneys to 'stop the presses', when would the time be right?
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> how long til I let him back in our home??
When he meets the requirements - all of them - of your Plan B letter...and not a moment before that.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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nthefogg, get his agreement to the extraordinary precautions and his committment to go through the MB program. When you feel certain about his sincerity and his willingness to follow a PLAN, I would let him back.
Is he willing to speak to your daughters and apologize to them?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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