It just frustrates me to no end--and I'm sure you, too, ID, that people like your WW go off and have unprotected sex. It's almost like they are oblivious to the consequences. All those years put in with those children of yours, just tossed into the toilet for a roll in the hay with a soulmate.
Sheesh. When will people learn to use birth control, especially if they're having an A??? Why make it worse!!!!???

It is so amazingly frustrating. Every time this particular topic comes up with people I talk too they are totally exasperated. An A damages enough people but to drag another innocent child into it, is in my mind, completely indefensible.

Almost?

Almost?

Try totally.

All I can say is, an A completely and totally messes up your ability to think clearly. There is no excuse. When I look back on that time in my life, I ask myself the same question. How on earth could I have done something like that? I don't know the answer. It doesn't even feel as though that person was really me. Once a wayward snaps out of the fog, they are often just as baffled and mortified by their own actions as the BS.

Woman are most apt to have unprotected sex when most apt to concieve (it is biologically a strong drive) and a foggy headed wayward is even more apt to due to not thinking things through.

I remember reading somewhere in a MB piece that if a child is born from the adultery, the betrayed spouse could be the go between of all informatin passed from the bio parents. That the no contact still applies to the adulterers for the marriage to survive.

>betrayed spouse could be the go between of all informatin passed from the bio parents.

I'd rather eat glass every day for the rest of my life.

I'm sure that's a very common feeling. That's why it's better to keep the AP out of the picture altogether. Things have been so much better around here since we established complete NC with the OM.

I just saw the post on the need for full exposure. Turns out that with the OMW moving that everyone in our ward (congregation) (well, all but the clueless) now know, more or less, about the A. And if they don't know, they suspect it.

This morning I recruited a friend to the cause. My WW and her have a good relationship and I think she is very willing to help my wife break through the fog. Her sister is a marriage counselor and is giving her some good advice. I told her to contact my wife ASAP and lay down the law however she saw fit.

IF she goes to an attorney....one of the first things he's (assuming it's a he today) is going to tell her is to go to the bank and withdraw 1/2 or ALL the savings you two have. He does this FIRST to insure that he gets paid and that he can rack up a huge bill on your wife (wayward wives are ALMOST ALWAYS high dollar clients, if they have the money available to spend, that need constant hand holding and constant BILLABLE calls and letters).

Also...IF she files...the petition will include language which forbids you from not maintaining the status quo as far as assets and bills. You CAN dump her financially (cutting off cell phone, maybe trading in her car for a junker, cutting off her gym membership, cancelling credit cards that have her name on them) BEFORE you get served but thereafter it gets more difficult.

Assess you financial situation NOW and make a plan. One big thing is getting a hold of all or most of the family savings. Now the courts may look at that as being vindictive if you take ALL the money out of joint name and put it in your name leaving your SAHM penniless. That is why I typically recommend you take 3/4th of the money (1/4 for each member of the family) leaving just 1/4 in the joint accounts. This is more easily justifiable. You aren't HIDING the money either...just transferring it and PROTECTING it. Getting her name off joint cards is a must...soon as without cash she's likely to CHARGE a hefty legal retainer (which she'll blow through real quick) on your joint credit card.

All in all, the less money she has available the better. First, the lawyer she eventually hires (and hopefully her) MAY be less likely to rack up huge legal bills. Second, without unlimited seeming financing, she may be more amenable to settlement someday. Finally, YOU won't be enabling her affair. She'll be lovebusting OM about money AND driving OM crazy complaining about and FOCUSING all her energy on you.

I'm not saying do this today. But it's certainly a consideration TODAY. Fight for your marriage AND protect yourself on the backside.

Mr. W

Wouldn't hurt to stuff away a little cash while you are at it. She's likley doing this as we speak. An extra $20-$50 cash withdrawal every time she uses the debit card at the grocery store or gas station.

W

Yep. And IF she can't get much cash, she won't be able to afford the pitbull lawyer--she'll have to settle for some namby-pamby. As Mr. Wondering can tell you, a crappy lawyer on your side is actually an ally for the enemy.

I'm really beginning to feel thankful that my H didn't find this site when I was involved in my A. I'm pretty sure if things had descended to this level in my M and gotten this ugly, we wouldn't still be together. Funny, my M managed to survive my A without having to get this ugly about everything. I'm not saying these tactics won't work. I really don't know. I'm sure they've worked for others in the past. But, I just can't imagine how they help WS's turn back toward the M or begin to have feelings of love toward their spouse again. It seems as though many of the things being tossed around here would only serve to give the WS more negative feelings toward their spouse. Is that the goal?

My H continued to love me throughout my A. He worked really hard not to LB. He tried his best to meet my EN (difficult, I know, when an A is ongoing). He made it obvious that he cared about me and wanted me to be happy and wanted our M to survive. Ultimately, I think that is what brought me back. It made me realize just how much our M meant to him and how much he loved me, something I really didn't believe before.

writer1: I get where the others are coming from but I'm with you - I'm all about keeping the peace. Yes, it means I leave myself open to getting screwed but it also means it's less likely to get to that point in the first place. Frankly, I don't really care all that much about money. There will always be ways to get by.

As for accounts, the vast chunk of our money (which isn't much) is in a savings account in my name only. She has no idea where it is or even how to get to it. We have separate checking accounts - I long ago took away and shredded the ATM card she had for my account (this was all several months before the A - a desperate attempt on my part to try and get money matters resolved - good thing in hindsight...). We have one joint credit card and it's pretty much maxed out. All others have been canceled.

So, long story short, she has no access to cash. That doesn't mean she can't go out and get another CC but she has high balances on the several she already has so I don't know what the odds are of her getting anything more than a few K of credit.

Indarkness,
I have been following your thread. I am so sorry you have been thrown into this mess. I was there, too, when my H had a year long affair that produced an OC. Believe it or not, in the end he was not excommunicated. I think the timing of the counsel had a lot to do with it. He had finally (5 months after d-day) really become remorseful and committed to the marriage. He had been walking the line between OW and me for that long.............long enough for OC to be born during that time.

I can't imagine the pain of having the OM be a friend and someone in your ward! It was bad enough that the OW lived in another state!

Your wife will unlikely change her tune until she sees what she will lose. I have seen it many times in the 5 years I have been on the OC Board and MB. And it happened to me, also. My H rapidly started serious work to choose his path and commit to the marriage after I made him leave. That was about 7 weeks into the disaster. I was monitoring the e-mails they sent and I caught the one where they were talking about his proposing marriage to her. I went balistic! I didn't care if I revealed my source, then. I made him leave that day and I went into an unguided plan B (I didn't know about MB then). I wouldn't take his calls and I filed for divorce the next day. How much can a person take? Really!

You will have to decide how much of your wife's disrespect of you and your family you will take before you make her leave and live with her choices. But I think she will glide along in fantasy land until she get a hard look at the reality she has created for herself and for YOU! She created this! As much as you want to keep the peace, there will be NO peace for a long time. Because of her and OM and the selfish, cruel choices they have made......again, for you.

You and your marriage can recover. But NOT while OM is in the picture in anyway..............for a long time. Your wife needs to be NC and focused on you, for any real recovery to begin. As long as she continues to get her "dose" of loving OM, you are not going to make it. You may have read enough on MB to have heard the saying, "Your marriage can survive the wayward spouses anger (when you mess up their fantasy), but it cannot survive and on-going affair." And that is what you have going right now. The affair is not over and if OM is encouraging her to divorce you and his W is gone and mayby filing as well, they may be changing their plans and the fantasy is continuing.

Don't be a pushover to keep the peace. I went that route, since that was what I always did, and it is my biggest regret. I didn't stand up for myself like I wished I could have, even after he returned home. He still called much of the shots and I didn't recognize my own power in the situation to affect the change. I am not saying be a raging maniac (even if that's what you feel inside). I just mean to set your boundaries of what you will accept and don't let your foggy wife setting them for you. She will say she is choosing what's best for everyone, but she really only means her and OM. It's not you or your COM. It's not. My H said outright that he didn't care if all of our children went inactive and followed in his wordly footsteps. He was soooo far out there with his thinking. He said he would never come back to the church if he was excommunicated. Like it was THEIR problem. And he most definately cared more about OW's feelings than mine. For a long time..................even after he had committed to stay with me.

It is clear that we did not begin recovery until he stopped talking to OW. I could always tell when he had talked to her because he would change, and not in a good way.

Be patient. Set your boundaries and a timeline of how long you will go. I decided I would go up to the birth of OC, to make sure that he did not attend it. That would have been a dealbreaker for me. I wanted OW to give birth without him, cruel as that may seem. I needed her to feel some of the pain she helped cause me. You can set your own timeline and see how it is going. You have this chance to see if it can be worked out. And I know you will give it your all. But you can always get divorced. You have that right, if you can't take it anymore. No one would blame you. Especially if your wife is still unrepentant.



Writer, you may have had a husband who was willing to forgive and you may have been able to quit OM and commit to your marriage early on. You may have not given your H any reason to protect himself further. But that is not what usually happens. The protection that posters have been suggested are wise and prudent and he never has to USE his plans. Just have them. And his efforts to "win" (puke) back his wayward wife, don't mean he can't protect himself from further pain and destruction if things go poorly. I am glad you were so fortunate. Not everyone is.

We have seen on this board men get thrown in jail on the "testimony" of physical abuse of a wayward wife that was untrue and the man was months from seeing his children and clearing his name through the courts. We have seen betrayed spouses destitute because the other spouse took all the money from the account and left them with a mortgage and bills that could not be paid. We have seen children abandoned by wayward spouses who can only think about themselves and the affair. We have seen betrayed spouses duped in all sorts of cruel ways and taken advantage of by a wayward spouse.....in the name of their love for the affair partner.

It is common sense to take some of the applicable precautions suggested. Nothing is permanent and can be undone if all is well. But they are hard to take when it is too late. And one never knows when "too late" is, until it has passed.

Indarkness, don't sign the BC until you are ready. That can be fixed easily later when you feel secure. But a nightmare to undo, if at all. CA is a very scary place with the CS laws and such. Unpredictable, in spite of the law. Be cautious. It can't hurt.

You can make it. While I will never really "get over" the affair. I have forgiven and we are recovered and happy. Better than before, even.

Sorry this is so long. I have been debating on whether to post. You have been getting good advice from experienced people. Some posters have been here a long time and have seen it all. This site is a blessing for you, even if you don't agree with everything. The knowledge is extensive and it should give you comfort on what may come.

Take care. Love your children. Stay close to God.

Quick Update:

OM and WW agreed to a period of NC, as before, but this time I was asked by both to block OM phone # on my wife's cell. No need to tell me twice! Unfortunately, WW also deleted e-mails I was trying to get access to...nuts! I have lots of monitoring now in place to make sure NC remains in force.

WW has been moping and crying all day. I'm just not feeling much sympathy right now so I've chosen to just ignore her.

Also, saw e-mail that OM got from friend and forwarded to WW. Talked about how destructive divorce was, that OM needs to work things out for his wife, etc. etc. This kind of stuff seems to effect OM pretty heavily. OMW moved to Utah with kids today. OM now living in orange county with parents. He works in West L.A. For the first time in his life he will now be living without access to his children. Hopefully that should have some effect.

Saw paper in WWs purse with number to "alternative attorneys". Great. It was hidden so she didn't intend me to find it, i don't think. She seems to be very serious about divorce...don't know if she will go through with it or not.

Snooping hurts. Sometimes it feels like its better not to know...

I totally get that.

Snooping hoovers big time.

Sorry ID.

Snooping hurts, yes, but the alternative is even worse. What you don't know can definitely hurt you.

How are you doing today? I've been wondering, is your WW still going to church on Sundays? How does she feel about the church? Does she actually think if she gets a D and marries OM that they will be able to get sealed in the temple? Just trying to figure out where her head is.

At certain point in my snooping I was completely able to detach from the words I overheard because I had heard enough garbage to factual conclude that the things I was hearing weere complete and utter nonsense.

The last straw was when I heard my wife just lying her butt off to OM and telling OM that I was toxic. It was just sooooo over the top that I realized I could devalue EVERYTHING I overheard. The feelings, the passion, the connection...all bullcrud. None of it made sense and none of it was real. Thus, how could I allow a completely fake relationship hurt me. How could internalize the mean and horrible stuff being said about me....BY MY WIFE, nonetheless. I just TRIED not too. I tried to be a duck and let it fall off my back. Quack...quack...Plan A.

Another advantage of aggressive snooping is that once you get to recovery there's nothing you really need to discover. You already have pretty much the whole picture and you just know that that picture is a fraud.

Finally, if you do end up divorced...at least you've got the whole bogus picture. MANY divorcee's have little to no idea about why they got divorced. They were gaslight for months on end and often accepted 50% of the responsibility (or more) for the breakup of the marriage. Then, upon divorce, their spouse starts dating or moving in with this person they've been talking to for months...or even years and they SPECULATE that there was an affair but it's too late to prove it or snoop it. Such divorcee's live with regret and have to somehow accept the unknown. Not only that...their cheating spouses will forever LIE about the divorce to the kids and the world (blaming YOU). They will never admit it. At least YOU will know exactly why you got divorced and be able to move forward with your life.

Anyway...thought I'd give you some of the upside to snooping.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - "a PERIOD of No Contact" is a sham. Even if they manage to not talk for awhile you (and THEY) know at some point contact will resume...if only to negotiate when they can resume contact. Your wife will SABOTAGE your marital recovery efforts and then RUN to OM claiming that she tried OR claiming she just can't try because you did such and such and thus, the "Period of NC" can safely end. I hope something changes for you. This "period of NC" isn't the worst case scenario (full contact would be) but it's NOT the start of recovery. I recommend you take full advantage of this period to Plan A as thought he affair FULLY CONTINUES. Don't forget to utilize the stick (of the carrot and stick variety) from time to time...especially on OM's side of things. Keep on...keeping on.

Second that!!!

Out of ALL the things I did in while in Plan A, this was the HARDEST. It took months of Mimi, Mark and others to convince me to keep doing it. Made me feel slimey and underhanded..... BUT it was when I finally did it properly that I busted that ol' nasty A up.......so you gotta keep at it

not2fun