My WH had PA back in 9/06 - 12/06. D day was 2 days after WH met OW. OW was going through the anniversary of her own H's death the previous year. I read text msgs, listened around the corner to phone conversations and got into personal and his work email. Read enough to make me phsically sick all the time. I lost 25 lbs. in 6 weeks. Not good. I decided after confronting H about his lying, the OW and some of the information I obtained that I was done. Basically, we were on and off almost every two weeks for the entire A. Finally at Christmas 2006 WH decides he really just wants me. I find a receipt for lingerie that he didn't give to me. I decided after a week of cooling off to email OW. She said it was over and she wanted to contact me for quite some time. OW gives some stupid story of how she never looked at him, but needed someone to listen to her problems. I kept in contact with OW for months via email. She wanted me to call her, but I knew I would not be able to keep my composure, so no phone call ever happend. Well, May 2007 was my last contact with OW. Asked lots of questions to verify what I thought I already knew. Also at that time decided I wanted to leave WH. WH said he didn't want that and he really loved me but understood if I could not move past this situation. WH also expressed how sorry he was. I wrote a letter to WH, so I could tell him all that I knew....7 pages typed and single spaced. Way too long, but very necessary at the time. WH cried, asked if we could talk that evening. I said, "yes", found a sitter for our child and prepared myself. WH was so suprised about everything I knew, I even admitted that I had emailed OW a few times.

Well, I also found out after my emails to OW that she bought him clothing, a watch, some boots, undergarments for an unplanned visit and paid for much of the activities when WH visited her. OW lived about 4 hours away at the time of A.

Ok, why I'm writing is that now that I am going through my 3rd year after A, I am not past it. Each year during these months Sep., Oct., Nov., and Dec. I can see her, hear her, and recall the emails we exchanged as well as the ones from her to WH. I feel so nauseated. I dream about what I think they did physically with each other, how WH told OW that he loved her. I think about the secrets they have shared and the lies WH told about me.

I am so not over this A. I have tried counseling multiple times with different Dr.'s. I have changed jobs, we have moved twice since the A and I can't get this crap out of my mind. Songs remind me, T.V. shows have A's all the time in the movies, regular sitcoms, etc.

WH and I argue so much now and I am not happy with him probably 90% of the time. He annoys me, I do not want to have sex with him much, I am finding that other men are very attractive to me now. I actually have contemplated having my own affair. The problem is if I were to be found out, WH would think I did it to pay him back. That isn't true, I would do it because I could and wanted to.

I want to forget about all the gory details from WH's A. How do I do that without being hit hard over the head? Help!

By the way, I have told WH that I still think about it often and he apologizes but it doesn't help. I do not trust or believe WH and truly do not care where WH his or if WH ever comes home. WH probably isn't doing anything now, but seriously the damage is done. My heart has already been broken. This wasn't first A either, there have been 3 PA's and 4 EA's in 17 years.

This makes me so sad that I used to be such a caring loving W and now I am in a lifeless marriage and only care because I never wanted to be divorced.

Any thoughts?

I do believe that I can recall that affair. Thank you for the update.

The only thing that clouds this revelation is your desire to make contact with other men. I suspect that you someone in mind. Y'no how fog works? Yes?

I am wondering what happened to the application of building a new marriage. Did you follow the formula of establishing a POJA.
Do you meet his EN's and he yours. What's happening to your marriage.

I've had a RA, got divorced, and had countless "relationships" since DDAY, then I started dating my fwxw. If the movies start to play of what they said to each other, I just think of a scene from one of my relationships and it goes away. If you know you are unhappy and you know your M can't make you happy, for God's sake leave and divorce, don't have a RA. TRUST ME. I feel horrible about doing what she did and worse I did it for vindictive reasons, not even fogged out over someone. DUDE

There are two problems that I see.

At first I was all set to recommend that you two participate in a MB weekend. You don't want sex... but hopefully you understand that you have to fill his top ENs if you want to eventually reach a state of intimcacy with him. The two of you are arguing all the time, which indicates there's no POJA. In fact, it seems that there is a complete lack of application of the Harley principles in your marriage. A weekend would do you two a world of good.

Then I got to this:
Harley himself says that it's hard to forgive and forget one affair, but in the case of multiple affairs it's common sense and self preservation if the betrayed can't recover.

If, on the other hand, either husband were to have another affair, the association would be much harder to extinguish. In fact, when a couple goes through a recovery after an affair, and then experience another affair, the resentment is often more intense and more persistent after the second recovery. With multiple affairs and recoveries, resentment is almost impossible to overcome. But then, in those cases I usually feel that the emotional reaction of resentment is not irrational at all. Emotions are telling the person that it's not a good idea to continue the relationship, and I would agree.

I think it would do you good to read the entire article.

Thank you for the replies. I do not have someone specific in mind, but when I read books or see movies I want what they have and I don't have it now. There are things about my H that are wonderful. His choices have not matched mine for quite some time but I feel that I need to stick it out. Regarding the POJA has never been completed. H thinks he can help himself. He never went to counseling, won't go now. I must be treating him well and adding to his LB since he tells everyone we are back on track and things are good. Well, they aren't good for me. In some ways I feel like punishing him for hurting me but only makes me feel sad to be mean and hurtful.
One of my Dr.'s told me after our 1st meeting that I should just pack up and leave him. H will always be a cheater. Maybe that's true. However, right now if he did have an A I would say I created that situation. I feel like am pushing him away by my feeling sad, expectations that he rarely meets for me and his selfishness.
He thinks he's so caring and giving because he buys me what I like and want. I would rather not have those things and have the urge, the need and desire to snuggle, have sex or just be in the same room. I rarely want to be where he is anymore. I hate that feeling. On the rare occasion we do snuggle, hug or kiss I ask myself if I would miss even this little contact if we were to be permanently apart. The answer almost always is a maybe. There are times I'm happy when we do family things with our child but those times are so much less often than the times that I feel like moving on. I told myself when I get to the point that the unhappy is more than the happy, it's time to leave. I think I'm there but for whatever strange reason leaving doesn't seem so easy now.
Thanks for reading!

Thank you for your complete answer.

From your description he has NOT met your boundaries.
Men are usually caught off guard by a disappearing wife. It almost seems that you have to write it down for him. Hide some money now and tell him to jack up his side of the marriage. He must organize it satisfactorily.

Send him here. Not the infidelity but marriage builders 101 section.

Desire, you could have written my story exactly. I have not recovered AT ALL and think about the OW all the time. I don't really blame her, she was a stupid young thing and she wasn't married to me, anyway.
But yeah, after a "false recovery" and DDay2, I just haven't ever been able to find the way out. Hope you have better luck than I have.

I've only had ONE Dday and H has only had ONE EA and I can't get past it. For me it was the more the fact that he never told me the truth about their former relationship before I met him (they were bf/gf) than the actual EA. I do obsess on what I read, etc., but I also keep thinking "what else has he lied about"?

You'd be surprised how fast this stops once you are w/ someone else. Unfortunatly, when you stay w/ the abuser, you are constantly triggered by them. When you are away from them(Plan D) and/or w/ someone else, it all fades. Not MB, but it was relief...DUDE

Mark has a thread about managing triggers on here:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2264004&page=1

I dont know how to do nice links - but thats the page...check it out!

i notice my BS thinks less about what i did and the past - when we are focused on something today and in the future. Working on things together - projects - helps us alot.

i also find on the days we dont discuss our relationship - and simply DO IT - its better. I am WAY not in recovery yet - but working for it...thats why i say - read marks post on triggers...

It's been more than 7 years since D Day, and sometimes I still get on Marriage Builders, but it just seems like such a nightmare from someone else's story. It took several years for me to recover.

I know it sounds silly, but one thing that really helped me was watching (Governor of South Carolina) Mark Sanford's confession of his affair on youtube. It made me realize that affairs are just stupid decisions by immature people.

I lost several years in raising my children because of that stupid affair but it really was more my own view that an affair was an undying love that would forever distort our marriage. Instead, I now regret the years that I lost being upset about it.

My father, when he learned about the affair, said to me that it means "weak character." I didn't buy it. I was fixated on this woman and how she would forever hold a place in my husband's heart. Now I think of it as stupid and meaningless.

Look at the years you are now wasting over something that cannot be changed. Look at your husband as not someone in the love relationship that would change him for all time but rather as someone who hurt himself terribly by making a stupid, immoral series of choices. The woman is totally irrelevant. The woman was just the person who was there. The problem with an affair is not the relationship with the other woman. The problem with an affair is the man's character.

Cherished

PS. Here's the youtube link: Note at the end that three staff people literally hustle him away. He just did not shut up about that affair, calling the woman his "soulmate" in a later AP interview. It was pathetic. What an idiot. This guy was viewed as a possible Republican Presidential candidate and was considered as a VP candidate for McCain. Now his wife has removed herself and their four children, and he's left in the governor's mansion and battling impeachment hearings. His political career is finished. His wife says she's willing to reconcile but he needs to get over his addiction. I admire the wife. The husband has a lot of growing up to do.

Well said Cherished. I'll print your post and try to internalize it. Maybe there's hope yet!

I agree. Our spouses had prior bf/gf, maybe prior spouses even, yet we think some incomplete, hidden relationship is anything close to the place in their hearts of their prior spouses and/or bf/gf? No way!! Most A's are weak characters trying to get everything. No spouse is completely satisfied w/ their spouse. Its just not possible. We live w/ the defects, we don't CHEAT to offset them....DUDE

agree people that cheat need to take responsibility for that - don't blame the other person. Of course if the person they cheat with knows they are married they also have issues. Must be sad to be sleeping/texting/talking to someone's elses husband who you know will never be with you when needed. Think a self esteem issue with both cheaters

NAIL ON HEAD!! DUDE

yeah - i know my journey to the land of stupid and selfish was motivated by self esteem issues...

And the funny thing is a lot of the fWW on here seem to be HOT from the pics I've seen.(my fwxw included) Why do yall have low self esteem? Ok, so your [censored] gets a little bigger? So what? I still think my fwxw is beautiful. DUDE

It appears that you and I have been through similar processes Cherished, and that we have come to very similar conclusions.

I would not say that I saw my H's affair as undying love for very long after I discovered it. I think it did involve addictive feelings, but my H seemed remarkably capable of keeping his two lives separate in his mind and never feeling that his desire for for OW in any way affected his commitment to me and his marriage. I think that he kept the affair going even after 3 discoveries because it was easy to conduct - it took place abroad while he was working - and hard for me to detect, because it involved no sneaking around at home. My H dumped OW when I or her H found things out, and took up with her when it seemed that we had believed their lies. I do not know if you feel the same about your H's affair; that for him it was more fun and thrills than anything else. However, it is because I see it that way that I identify so strongly with your view.

You and I both admire Mrs Sandford however, and yet you and I have not done what she has done and left. She says she will come back when she sees something to respect in him (my interpretation). Just now, she has no respect for him in his pathetic, babbling state.

The effect on me of coming to see my H's affair in the above light is that my respect for him is much diminished. I do respect him for having given up his job, and doing this new one that he dislikes without complaining to me. I do respect him for choosing his children over OW (he says there was never any element of choice - he never thought of leaving us for her) and I am glad that he showed no signs of withdrawal whatsoever (I suppose he got that out of his system when the affair slowly disintegrated amidst mutual love busting). However, I cannot respect him as I once did, and this is not good for rebuilding a romantic marriage!

What is the effect of your views on you, (if you do not mind my asking)?

SugarCane,

Well, my husband was also abusive towards me. I managed to escape detection that my injuries were due to domestic abuse. I've been through 8 surgeries and have 2 more next summer (when I am done!). They were all for two injuries, one in 1998 which was first treated in 2007 and one in 2001 which was treated immediately and for the next 18 months.

It's easier for me to see, I suppose, that he really has changed because he is no longer abusive.

For me, I cannot respect what he was when he was abusive and unfaithful. I can respect what he has become.

Jenny Sanford seems to share my view in that she has removed herself but is willing to reconcile.

People can change. In fact, one person told me this great truth: "He can change. You can't change him." That was back when I was trying to convince him of the evil of his choices. He's had a long, hard road to follow in going from abusive and unfaithful husband to respectful and caring husband and father. My mother could not believe it. When she learned of the affair and abuse, in 2002 on the day I learned that it was in fact an affair, she told me she would "cheerfully murder him." She could not believe I would stay with him and she and my father would not see him until this year. Now he's invited on a family reunion next summer.

Think how you would feel if a son in law beat up your daughter and cheated on her. Could you see him again? Even my mother has accepted him back. Even my mother tells me she admires him for how he has changed, for how happy I seem, for how happy the children seem...(My father was more receptive to welcoming him back. He saw affairs as simple stupidity and abuse as cracking under the pressure of supporting a family.)

Perhaps the most hopeful statement I have ever heard comes from John Paul II: "We become what we do." The man who beat up his wife -- who even broke her arm the week before Christmas because she was threatening to call this woman who was calling him and he couldn't hang up -- that man is gone.

I use this as a lesson for our children. I tell them they can recover even from terrible mistakes.

Cherished

I'm so glad to hear this, Cherished. Thank you for your reply.