Somebody has been sipping the Kool-aid.

Well said.

Mr. W

I think Harely got this idea from me. No NPD here, though

Wrong.

I exposed to the BS. I exposed poorly and in a weenie-ish way because I didn't have knowledge of Marriage Builders back then. I did it by email, I was vague about details but definite about the two people involved. I did it with a Hotmail account that I opened and quickly closed. I've already told you everyone else who I exposed to---and given I didn't even know MB existed back then, I think it was a pretty decent job.

So now the question became, do I want to do it more fully now that I know of MB? And that three years have passed. And I wondered why Dr. Harley hadn't more explicitly explained that.

Here's a nice little passive/aggressive fantasy one could use(it is not a good idea.)to expose after a length of time had passed: Simply work the disclosure into some innocuous conversation, acting as if you thought everyone knew about it.
Say you are discussing the 2004 World Series. Simply say somthing like, "Oh, yeah. So and so was pitching and had a no hitter into the 6th. Unfortunately, I missed the 7th, when it was broken up, as Reggie's affair partner called looking for him."
"What's that?You did not know? Damn, I just assumed he had told you."

Not really. The one person who needs to know the most doesn't know. None of those others needed to know, the OWH needs to know. The one other victim in this story still doesn't know. So I don't see how you can call that "decent." What is decent about that? I wonder why you wouldn't tell him now?

Or, just dangle enough to drive them crazy but not enough to give them the full truth. Screw with their head real bad. Like a mean cat who plays with an unsuspecting mouse. For example, send an anonymous email and say something like "you should ask your wife what she did at the class reunion." hmmmmmmmmmmm

So, he asks her what happened at the reunion and she tells him some innocuous story about seeing so and so and so and so, blah, blah, blah. And what does the BH do then? What CAN he do? He has nothing but a vague suspicion. He can't even accuse her, because what good will that do? With no facts, all she has to do is deny.

So he wonders, and worries, and accuses, and worries, and sweats.........for years. That would really screw with your head, wouldn't it? Can you think of a better way to screw with someone's head?

ML, I had suggested OH look at her intent before sending the letter. She has been swirling and swirling in drama and day-to-day situations for some time now, and to me this sounded like more of the same, a distraction from the main goal, which is to create a safe home for her kids. First things first. Dr. H mentions physical violence being something to be dealt with before worrying about folks outside of the home. OH's H isn't physically violent, but with the level of AOs that he spews at his children daily, I think it's at least worth considering to focus on getting her family to safety first, and doing right by members of other families later.

But that's just one opinion. OH, I am deeply sorry that it came across as talking you out of this. I have a lot of respect for you to make your own decisions.

NED, I am very disappointed that this other betrayed husband has been treated so cruelly and thoughtlessly. OH's "intent" is irrelevent to this man's need and right to know the truth. Her intent should have been to do the right thing for a fellow human being, but that was apparently not taken into consideration... to my horror.

He has been played with in a very cruel and inhumane manner and my disappointment is great. I grieve and hurt for the horrendous way this man has been treated by everyone involved. Everyone knows the truth about his life EXCEPT HIM.

Sending him just enough to make him suspicious and not enough to get answers is MEAN.

I thought this was one of the best newsletters.

ML, I don't think that guy is as an innocent BH, as you assume, but that's just my biases showing. I think much more likely they are two birds of a feather. But since I don't know that to be true, I agree with you, that this man is in a sad position. But I don't agree that she didn't take any of this stuff into consideration. I think she does intend to contact the H of the OW, just maybe not today, in the middle of all this swirling.

But who I really feel bad for are their innocent kids, forced to take on the adult responsibility to try to make sense of daily AOs. Instead of having a calm home where they can focus on their own growth. OH and her H both are charged with the responsibility to protect these kids from AOs, and neither parent is doing well at it today. To me that's the issue to focus the effort on. But I hear you, ML, there are lots of ways to look at this.

Never mind.....

OH, I am reading that you are going through a rough time. I am very sorry to hear that. However, I am literally BEGGING you to take the time to inform the OW's BH, again and properly, immediately. And by properly I mean....give him all the details you know. Don't do it anonymously either.

From what you said about your "vague" exposure to him, I am almost positive this is what this poor man is living with, for three long years now.......



Are you familiar with the term "gaslighting"?. It is very, very possible this is what OW is doing to her BH. It is emotional abuse. It will seriously mess him up. He could be suffering, needlessly. Do you want to live with that?

All you have to do is apologize to him for being vague and waiting so long because you just didn't know what to do. You know what to do now. Please expose PROPERLY to this poor man. Please.

My email back to him in fall 06 said (I'm paraphrasing because it was a long time ago and I can't remember what I wrote):

Ask your wife about her (very identifying details about H inserted here---)friend from HS and see if she had as good a time at the recent reunion as he did. And ask to see her email accounts from (listed both accounts--the public and the secret one I'd discovered).

What I didn't do was divulge more details than that or sign my name and I used a hotmail account that I immediately closed after sending this. So you are all correct, I did not expose correctly to the BH. After a false start with the letter returned to me and finding the correct address (not in the offices of the city where he lives which is where I originally sent it but at the company's corporate HQ), I have the letter in my purse, ready to go out again. I admit now to having some more doubt about sending it.

OH, the decent thing would be to send it to him. Can you imagine how upsetting it would be if you got an anonymous email like that? You know he didn't get the truth from her. All it did was make him wonder but give him nothing to go on.

I know it bothers you and I applaud you for thinking of him because I know you are concerned. I know you are not a mean person. This is never an easy thing to do for anyone. There is never a "best time" to do it.

This might sound weird, Melody but I wish he had VM access at work. I would have no problem calling up, identifying myself and leaving what basically amounts to the same information I put in my letter. But having it in writing.... of course that anxiety is probably because it's an actual "thing" that I'm afraid will come back and bite me in the [censored], whereas a voice mail is not tangible.

It makes NO sense why I feel more comfortable with a VM over a letter or an email. In fact, if I had to rate them from least anxiety producing to most, it would be VM, EM and then letter. And the letter seems to be my only option since the airline confirmed for me that he doesn't have VM or EM for some reason. Why he had EM back in '06 and doesn't now, I don't know. The airline has gone through some tough financial times and merged with another airline. Perhaps that's part of it.

Maybe they just don't want the pilots checking email or voice mail while they overfly airports....?????? (yup, same company)

OH, you will be ok sending him the letter, we do it that way all the time. I would make sure, though, that you give him a follow up # so he can call and ask you questions. [or an email address] Did you give him all the information that you have about the affair? He needs enough information to know the full truth.

p.s. its actually easier to do it via letter versus phone call because you don't have to deal with the heartbreaking reaction. That is the hardest part of exposure. It is heartbreaking.

Not MB advice, but I would lean towards staying uninvolved at this point. IF you needed that weapon to keep her away from H, then do it. But absent that, you would open up the risk that she would contact your H (to discuss the exposure), or worse yet interfere with your own life, or OW's H injuring you H.

When my xOW's H hired a PI to watch me several months after NC, I suggested on this board that I tell him about his W's other affair partner, who she boinked prior to me, and who she works with! I figured that he didn't need to watch me (I wanted no part of OW or A), but her. I was told here to "keep that information in my back pocket." After I totally defogged, I developed a deep sense of regret for doing what I did to OW's H, and often thought about passing the info. about OW's other affair partner on to him. However, I have decided not to get involved. Let sleeping dogs lie (no pun intended).

BTW, sometimes I think the best revenge on OW is to put she and H back in touch with each other again. She can leave her H and move in with my H. Judging from the photos I found of her on FB, she spends a LOT of money on herself: expensive haircut/highlights, very nice clothes, nails perfect, etc. I remember from reading the emails sent back and forth that she thinks nothing of dropping a lot of $$$ on spa weekends, club memberships, tennis and so on.

Can you imagine her with my chronically unemployed husband? I'm not sure this OW ever held an actual real-live job where she brought in a decent salary where I've always been the larger wage-earner--even when we were both working.

Hmmmm.....

ImStaying, I do think of that consequence often: what if she tries to get in touch with H over this. Back in the early days after Dday, I think he would have refused to take her call. But our relationship is in the toilet and I don't know if it's the alcoholism or the fact that he still has a wayward mindset--both the feeling of "I'm entitled to some happiness" and "why me" pervade his life.

He's also gone from being remorseful and willing to answer all my questions, to "get over it", "it wasn't an affair" (it was an EA) and "it could have been worse you know" (hinting PA). Not good groundwork for recovery!