Not aruging ML - presenting a different POV...adultry is horrible. no doubt about it. I too have been assulted, lost a baby (although it was a miscarriage and I would guess though cant know for sure that losing a child and buring them much much more horrible) and been cheating on - additionaly i have cheated on my H.....so perhaps its different for each person. Dr. harley specializes in adultry though...and recovery of it. Possible a dr. who specializes in domestic violence would disagree?

What I did to my H is much worse for him than if he were assulted...but we have talked about this topic and he says losing a child would be much worse. so its different for each person i think.

I'm not saying one kind of abuse is worse than another. But anyone who minimizes the effects of domestic violence on a family is missing part of the story.

The question I am most frequently asked by visitors to this web site is "how can I survive my spouse's affair?" After having counseled thousands of couples with hundreds of marital conflicts, I am completely convinced that a spouse's unfaithfulness is the most painful experience that can be inflicted in marriage. Those I've counseled who have had the tragic misfortune of having experienced rape, physical abuse, sexual abuse of their children, and infidelity have consistently reported to me that their spouse's unfaithfulness was their very worst experience. To be convinced of the devastating impact of infidelity, you only need to go through it once.

For each Dr. - there are thousands of cases they treat...I am sure their are Drs. out there that treat all three and would disagree with Harley about which is worse.

ML - by saying adultry is worse - you minimize the affect for some of abuse - for some adultry is worse, for others abuse, for others rape, for others losing a child.

For YOU adultry was worse.

For me - rape and abuse was worse than adultry

for my H - i would say adultry worse than everything else he has experienced in his intire life (including abuse by his parents)...

so my fiance having sex with a coworker up against a tree before coming home to me doesnt count as adultry?

I don't believe for a second that 75%+ of women's affairs are in marriages where there is abuse. That makes no sense at all given that 40% of women cheat and a very low, low amount are in physically abusive marriages.

"I hurt all the time because I feel alone and abandoned."

"My husband is no longer my friend."

"The only time he pays attention to me is when he wants sex."

"He is never there for me when I need him the most."

"When he hurts my feelings he doesn't apologize."

"He lives his life as if we weren't married; he rarely considers me."

"We're like ships passing in the night, he goes his way and I go mine."

"My husband has become a stranger to me, I don't even know who he is anymore."

"He doesn't show any interest in me or what I do."


Women tend to be more concerned about their marriages than men. They buy most of the books on marriage to try to improve them and initiate most marriage counseling. They often complain about their marriages to their closest friends and sometimes to anyone who will listen. And they also file for divorce twice as often as men.

Why do women seem so dissatisfied with marriage? What do they want from their husbands? What bothers them so much about marriage that most are willing to risk their families' future to escape it?

Why do women leave men?

Each day I am confronted by women who are extremely frustrated with their marriages. They usually express no hope that their husbands will ever understand what it is that frustrates them, let alone change enough to solve the problem. From their perspective, marital problems are created by their husbands who do little or nothing to solve them. Wives tend to see themselves as the major force for resolving conflicts, and when they give up their effort, the marriage is usually over.

When I talk to their husbands, they usually have a very different explanation as to why their wives feel the way they do. They often feel that the expectations of women in general, and their wives in particular, have grown completely out of reach. These men, who feel that they've made a gigantic effort to be caring and sensitive to their wives, get no credit whatsoever for their sizeable contribution to the family. They feel under enormous pressure to improve their financial support, improve the way they raise their children, and improve the way they treat their wives. Many men I see are emotionally exhausted and feel that for all their effort, they get nothing but criticism.

The simpler role of husbands in decades past has now been replaced by a much more complex and confusing role, especially in their relationship with their wives. Some conclude that women are born to complain and men must ignore it to survive. Others feel that women have come to expect so much of men that they are impossible to please, so there's no point in even trying. Very few men, these days, feel that they have learned to become the husbands that their wives have wanted, and the job seems to be getting more and more difficult.

Grounds for Divorce

Men's perceived failure to satisfy their wives is punctuated by the fact that women file for divorce twice as often as men. In other words, their unhappiness with marriage often results in divorce.

The most common reason women give for leaving their husbands is "mental cruelty." When legal grounds for divorce are stated, about half report they have been emotionally abused. But the mental cruelty they describe is rarely the result of their husband's efforts to drive them crazy. It is usually husbands being indifferent, failing to communicate and demonstrating other forms of neglect.

Another reason for divorce reported almost as much as mental cruelty is "neglect" itself. These include both emotional abandonment and physical abandonment. Husbands that work away from the home, sometimes leaving their wives alone for weeks at a time, fall into this category.

When all forms of spousal neglect are grouped together, we find that it is far ahead of all the other reasons combined that women leave men. Surprisingly few women divorce because of physical abuse, infidelity, alcoholism, criminal behavior, fraud, or other serious grounds. In fact, I find myself bewildered by women in serious physical danger refusing to leave men that threaten their safety.[color:#FF0000]

Simply stated, women leave men when they are neglected. Neglect accounts for almost all of the reasons women leave and divorce men.

I have little trouble convincing most men that verbal and physical abuse are legitimate reasons for their wives to leave. And there has been increasing social pressure on men lately to avoid hurting their wives physically and verbally, which makes my job even easier.

But neglect is a much tougher sell, and it is also much more difficult to overcome than abuse. While it is the most important reason women leave men, it is hard to convince men that it is a legitimate reason, something they should avoid at all costs.

Some of the common complaints I hear from women is, "He ignores me except when he wants sex, he sits and watches television when he could be talking to me, he rarely calls me to see how I'm doing, he hurts my feelings and then never apologizes: Instead, he tells me I'm too sensitive."

Most husbands are mystified by these complaints. They feel that their wives demand too much, and that most other women would be ecstatic if married to them. Their wives have become spoiled, take their efforts for granted and have unrealistic expectations.

Do women expect too much of their husbands or are men doing less for their wives than they should? I've proven to husbands over and over again that their wives usually do not expect too much of them, and when they understand and respond to their wives' frustration, the complaining ends and a terrific marriage begins.

What's more, their wives are not expecting more effort from them. Instead, they expect efforts in a different direction. It isn't more difficult to please women these days, it simply requires a change in the priority of effort.

What are women looking for in men? They want a soul mate, someone they trust who is there for them when they have a problem, who takes their feelings into account when decisions are being made. Someone to whom they feel emotionally connected.

Although it is not a true statisical standard, in the 8 years I have been here, about 90% of female cheaters CLAIM abuse and it has been true in TWO cases. Wayward wives are liars just like male cheaters and they very often use the abuse card to justify their cheating and pander pity. Playing the victim is CLASSIC wayward wife behavior.

I can't count the times some skank OW and her WS manipulated some poor deluded BS into not exposing the affair because "her husband beat her" and it turned out to be a LIE. One that comes to mind is board member Kimberly and she was so scared the OW's H would beat her up that she checked to see if he had any record.[never reported to the police, of course] It turned out, after she spoke to OW's brother, that it was all a big fat lie. AS USUAL.

Even so, even wife beaters deserve to know their wives are abusing them. Dr Harley addresses that in his newsletter. She is to separate FIRST and then tell him of the affair.

I think the most important take away is to NOT CHEAT if you don't want to get beat up. That is a job hazard of cheating. If you are not willing to take that risk, you might oughta keep your britches up.

Oddly, the only beat downs I know of since I have been here have not been husbands beating up wayward wives, but BHs beating up OM. And they did not beat them up upon discovery, but weeks or months after D-Day.

So, I would have to say that the ones who have the greatest chance of getting beat up are the OTHER MEN. I hope they take that into account when they choose to have an affair with a married woman, because chances are great you might get beat up.

Your right - lots of women lie and makes it harder for those who it really happened to.

I disagree - but maybe a topic for a different thread:

1)you cant die from being cheated on - you can be KILLED by physical assult.

2) Cheating is a breaking of vows, a violation of trust, a deep personal injury - physical assult is a breaking of vows, a violation of trust and a deep personal and physical injury...

A man is supposed to be his wifes protectors - to hurt her breaks his vows to her and violates their trust...its a deeper violation than if a stranger violated her - her H did this to her.

A women is supposed to forsake all others and in fact hurts her H in a way no one else could EVER hurt him when she cheats

I say cheating and phsyical assult are Very similar betrayls and should be treated very much the same

Exposre often can stop an abuser...and make them accountable to their friends and family

fullfilling Love Banks and putting your needs first can change your focus.
counseling etc...

But just like a revenage affair is wrong - cheating on an abuser is wrong
two wrongs dont make a right...or equal anything out...to abuse your spouse is wrong ...period
to cheat is wrong -regardless of what spouse has done - period.

i have never justifitied my ONS (which resulted in the OM inviting up three friends who forced me to stay in room and rape me)..i went to that room - I am responsible and I didnt because I wanted attention...none of what I did was even remotely my Hs fault...not even close!

and i do think dr. harleys plan works.
and I didnt say my MC (with 30+ years MC for couples where there is angery problems, adultry and domestic violence) said those women leave - he said they cheat...which often makes their situation worse.

Yes, and it can be fatal to the betrayed or the wayward spouse.