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We met in high school but never dated, due to timing and friends that blocked a relationship from happening. We did however become friends and hung out with each other often. After High School I joined the military and she stayed at home due to one more year of HS. I got stationed overseas and then went to the Middle East, while I was there we started talking and decide to start a long distance relationship. Anyway long story short we have been married for almost 12 years and during my wife�s last deployment she had a SA. I found out by reading an e-mail that was left open. D-Day was 7 Sep, no contact has been established since the 18th of September and we are doing great for the most part.

You see my wife doesn�t know if she wants to stay married or go off on her own. The OM doesn�t have anything to do with this decision as it would be near impossible to have a relationship due to us living overseas and he lives in the states on the west coast. She says that she has never felt chemistry with me or sexual attraction, and that she got that from OM. I don�t believe that she has never felt this way, I think she has forgot since we have been married for almost 12 years. I still completely love my wife and want to save the marriage, it is hard knowing what she did but I want to get over it and move on building a stronger relationship than before.

What I don�t understand is she tells me she loves me, but when it comes to affection she has to force it, and sex is nonexistent right now. I can deal without sex for now but near lack of affection and the fact that I�m left in this world of uncertainty is hard. We still sleep in the same bed, we kiss and hug only when going off to work and before going to sleep, we cuddle in bed but that is as far as it goes.

We get along great even now we do stuff on the weekends together, we communicate very well, we have some areas that need some work but it�s not areas that are a factor right now. She is my best friend and also my wife, and I�m the same for her. But I�m worried that she sees me more as the friend and less as the husband. How can we change this? I don�t want to be just friends with my wife, I want to feel her love like I did before all this happened. I know there was some needs of hers (Helping around the house, recreational stuff) that I wasn�t meeting and I have changed that. Has any of you gone through this? Can anyone give me the answers that will help me get down the right path?


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Hi and welcome to Marriagebuilders. I am sorry to find you in this situation, but this website has the best practical information for couples trying to recover their marriage after an affair. My H and I were dual military (now retired) and have been working on our marriage since discovery of his A in April 2008.

To start, my advice would be to read all the articles on this site as well as Dr Harley's books, "Surviving an Affair", "Lovebusters" and "His needs, Her Needs". They all have good practical information about marriage building.

Your D-day is very recent. I think it is positive that your W has established NC with the OM. One of the things that folks on here talk about is the "wayward fog". For my H, this lasted about 6 months. During this time, even though he had NC with the OW, he was withdrawn and somewhat depressed. He later admitted to wondering about OW, how she was doing, etc. It was tough for both of us to get through this time.

Best wishes to you and your W.

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Waywards will say anything to try and minimize what they have done. She may be in the wayward fog when she says that she never felt chemistry with you. Think back to the days when you were dating and the early years of your marriage--you'll be a better judge of whether there was chemistry. If the attraction faded over time, you can still get it back and better. You'll have to work harder at it than you can imagine.

Good luck.


D-Day EA 11/29/08
D-Day PA 12/12/08

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Originally Posted by Lvninitaly
You see my wife doesn�t know if she wants to stay married or go off on her own. ........ I still completely love my wife and want to save the marriage, it is hard knowing what she did but I want to get over it and move on building a stronger relationship than before.

Sounds like you are in a very normal spot after only a month out from D-Day.

I would HIGHLY recommend that you click on the "counseling center" link on the header of the home page. You can do the coaching from anywhere in the world, as you participate by phone. This worked beautifully for my wife and me.

I recommend the books mentioned by armymama too!






Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Also, it sounds like your WW is still in the throes of an emotional affair (EA) with the OM. The continued rewriting of your marital history to eliminate her feelings and to make you the bad guy is a pretty clear sign.

If you don't have a firm commitment from her of no contact (NC) with him, the affair is still live to her. That will essentially make recovery impossible. If that's the case, you need to hit the "notify" button and ask the mods to move this thread to "Surviving an Affair," where you'll get a lot more attention from folks who specialize in helping guys like you figure out how to handle an ongoing affair -- even an EA, which is no less dangerous to a marriage than a physical affair (PA).

Good luck, and we'll see you in SAA.

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Thank you all for your comments. let me clear up some things from my story above. I didn't want to write out the entire story due to length but i guess I left out some details. First off the WW and I have both read through this site, and we ordered four of his books, His needs her needs, Surviving an affair, Falling in Love stay in love, five steps to romantic love. I have gotten a lot of good information from this site.

Her SA was only 3 weeks long, and then she came home from deployed location. Over all she only knew OM for about a month. I know that she has had no contact from the date that she sent OM the last e-mail. I can tell that she has changed around me since then. I feel we are in the recovery stage for the most part but until she sees that we have what she felt was missing I don't think it is a true recovery. I do feel that this post was put in the right section.

I feel that even though we started off with a long distance relationship that we were both attracted to each other and that there was passion, twelve years of deployments and a routine lifestyle has seeped the passion out. Like the rest of you out there I just wish she could see our relationship through my eyes.

Thanks again for your comments


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IF she is NC with OM and you are working on filling each others EN's, avoiding LB's, spending at least 15 hours UA per week, then the love will come back. MAybe not as fast as you would hope but it does come back, and by following the programme, its even better than before smile


Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday laugh
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Moved to SAA at thread starter's request.


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Was the OM military? Is the OM married?? If so have you exposed to his wife?

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bjs, thanks for looking at my post but I don't think it would matter if he was military or not the damage is done. Yes he is married and no my wife and I have not contacted his wife to let her know. I feel it's not my place and I don't know who she is or where she lives.


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lvninitaly - your WW sounds very much like I did. I told my H that I never felt the emotional connection or the passion for him while I was having my A. (Both EA, then PA). It was a way for me to justify to myself that I was not a bad person. However, luckily for me I had kept a journal while my H and I were dating. I got it out a few weeks ago and read how I had never felt this way about anyone before, how much I had loved him. After the first 10 years of marriage, things were pretty stale and routine - he admitted that once we were married he didn't feel he had to romance me anymore since he already "had me" These are his words. We have come to realize that romance, love, passion, life all take a bit of work on our parts to keep it fresh. It will get better - in time. At least I hope so as H and I are working towards regaining that passion that you and your wife seek.


Me - WW - 44
BH - 42
Affair lasted almost 4 years - off and on
Married to a sweet sweet man 15 years
DS - 8
DS - 7
Trying to recover everyday from the pain I caused my family.
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Lizzy2 - Thank you for your post, Did you go through the same phase of do I stay married or do I go off on my own. We have so many letters that we wrote to each other when we first started our relationship that shows how we felt about each other back then. When did you realize that you did have the desire or passion for your husband again? How did you realize it? What did it take for that to happen? Thank you again and I hope everything goes great for you and H.


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Quote
I feel it's not my place
You know that this woman is getting cheated on, and you feel it's not your place - since YOU are the only other person on earth who can tell her - to let her know?

I guess that means that you don't want to know about the affairs your wife has, right?

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catperson- I guess what I meant was that I don't know who this other woman is or even how I would contact her. Also, with that said, since I found out over a month ago and my wife and I are working through our issues I don't think trying to contact the OM wife would make things better for me and my wife. But yes I would want to know even as hard as knowing is I would. No one knows how to approach this issue when if first arrises, I didn't find this site till almost two weeks after D-day. So I was behind the power curve when it comes to how to deal with this situation. Instead I went off of instincts and how I felt for my wife. I still think that the OM should be the one to tell his wife, but I doubt he will.


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One of the things that both your wife and the OM have to find out is the consequences of their actions. This also helps to lift the fog.

OMW will become an ally should their become any communication between WW and OM. Don't neglect contacting OMW.


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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Hey, Lvnititaly. I'm not exactly glad you had your thread moved, given the circumstances, but I think it's probably for the best.

Here's one thing to think about. Exposure of the affair helps kill it, and it's also one of the few things that you as a BH can actually do proactively. In a weird and kind of unexpected way, it can be both healing and empowering on a personal level. Yes, you can expect your WW to be furious about it. I'm in recovery, and my WW is still fuming about my exposure. Expect her to say she feels humiliated, that you've just cost the marriage any shot she was going to give it, and so forth. Read to the bottom, because I'm going to post some advice I got during my wife's EA that I only appreciated in retrospect.

Bill Harley has finally spoken out publicly about the value of exposure. Here's a link to his most recent Q&A on the subject (I'm told it will eventually be posted on the MB site proper). I know that I would have benefited from knowing his thoughts on the subject at the time of the EA, and perhaps you will, too.

You're on a tough road. If you really want to save your marriage, you'll need to listen to the folks here, **edit** I went through the same thing here, although my posting history has totally disappeared (twice -- long story). But finding OMW and communicating with her will help you. At the very least, you'll be doing your part to communicate the truth to someone who needs to know it. At best, you'll have a new ally in watchdogging the aftermath of the affair and making sure the affair partners (AP) don't contact each other.

As far as finding OMW, that's just a logistics question. The Internet is a wonderful tool -- use it. Try ZabaSearch, pipl.com or any of the other sites you'll find if you Google "people search." If none of that works, various paid services can help, and the investment is actually worth it.

Let us know how it goes. You're in the right place for help.

Here's a post I got on my original thread here from Mark1952, one of the most insightful BHes you'll find here on the forums:

Originally Posted by Mark1952
CC,

Everyone has the right to privacy. We close the bedroom door when we change clothes. We lock the door to the bathroom when we take a shower. We all have this right.

What you wife seeks is NOT privacy, but SECRECY. She does not need to be able to talk with OM without your knowing about it since if she had nothing to hide in the conversation she should have no problem with you sitting right beside her. The same applies to her emails with him. If she is not planning the destruction of your family she should have nothing she should fear from your reading what she emails him.

She has a right to privacy. She has no right to secrecy in undermining your life together, and make no mistake, this is what is taking place in secret.

As far as exposure is concerned, Dr Harley has suggested that future editions of SAA might include information on just that subject. The purpose of exposure is not retribution but an attempt to circumvent the WS's tendency to unfavorably spin the situation when they talk to friends and family. To see this you only have to look at what she has already tried to tell you is her reason for this affair. She is painting you with broad strokes as being the bad-guy and the REASON for her affair with this OM.

By letting those who might be in her circle of influence what is really going on two things are hoped for. First is that people like her parents, friends who might also be friends of the marriage and others will exert influence on her to end her affair and recommit to the marriage. The second is to avoid having her make you the bad guy while she comes off as vindicated in her affair. She WILL spin this to others given much of a chance.

But exposure also puts pressure on the affair in another way. That is it brings the affair into the light of reality. Affairs thrive in secrecy and in the realm of fantasy where no reality needs to be considered by either of the affair partners. They each seek a life with the other that is merely what they have created in their own minds, one in which they will live happily ever after and even you and the kids will thrive, since the affair partner's happiness is all that matters.

Exposure bursts this bubble by manifesting the cost of the affair. The real cost now has to be weighed against the real value and even infidels have a hard time balancing a fantasy with no merit against the destruction of family, the loss of friends, the support of parents etc. Your greatest allies in this fight are the BW or GF or even other family members of OM. If his wife is threatening to take away his pension and 20 to 50% of all that he earns for the next 20 years or so, it can put a real damper on his desire to continue pursuing your wife.

The best way to go about exposure is to do it all at once in a nuclear holocaust that suddenly turns everyone against the affair all in one giant tsunami of truth. Compile a list of exposure targets, get names addresses, phone numbers, emails etc and gather as much intell and proof as you can regarding the affair and it's simple existence. You don't need court approved evidence. Circumstantial evidence, email trails, notes, documented clandestine meetings, phone records etc are sufficient. Then let it all loose at once.

When you expose you can expect one thing for certain. That is a tantrum the likes of which no 2 year old has ever been able to sustain for even a full minute. She will not be angry; she will be livid! She will call you names you didn't know she knew. She will tell you that she was thinking of giving the marriage another try but now you blew it. She will claim you are someone who cannot be trusted (I always laugh at this one, the unfaithful one talking of trust issues with the faithful spouse) and will say things that would make a sailor on leave after 6 months at sea blush in disbelief.

You can pretty much ignore all that...

In fact, if you can ignore every word, you'll save yourself a lot of grief and wasted energy trying to justify to her why you are fighting to save your family.

I would also suggest that the more things she says that sound like you have destroyed her life by exposing, the more likely you are to end up still married to her in the end. It means she has to resort to bullying and threats in order to get you to back off and let her continue the affair in peace. It means she wants you and OM, at least for right now and is not willing to give up OM but is not certain the cost of losing you is worth what she will get by leaving.

Small chance she will walk out and never return, but if that happens, it was going to happen anyway. And when I say small, I mean so small as to be statistically insignificant for all intents. If she wanted to be gone, she'd be gone. She isn't sure she wants OM, she's auditioning him as a replacement for you. She won't let go of you till she knows she's getting a good deal. She wants and expects you to sit by while she makes up her mind. She wants to compare you with him at every level, including in the sex department. Make the cost more than she can afford.

If you want more input, start a new thread or have the mods move this one to the Surviving an Affair forum.

Some Plan A and B stuff and a summary of MB basics can be found in my "musings" thread and Trouble Shooting and Repair links in my sig line. Begin on page one and look for links, some of which may still not work. Skip what does not apply or does not interest you.

I am guessing you have already read the posts pinned to the top of this forum. If not be sure to read Longhorn's thread and WAT's quick start guide. Look for the link to BP's tool kit in my musings thread.

Mark
_________________________
Musings From Mark
mbmark1952@yahoo.com

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Originally Posted by Lvninitaly
How can we change this? I don�t want to be just friends with my wife, I want to feel her love like I did before all this happened. I know there was some needs of hers (Helping around the house, recreational stuff) that I wasn�t meeting and I have changed that. Has any of you gone through this? Can anyone give me the answers that will help me get down the right path?

LvnItaly, sorry you are here. The others are right about exposure to the OMW. Dr Harley has long advocated exposure and it is one of the most potent weapons at your disposal. With 2 people watching from both ends, the affair is sure to die and stay killed. This will likely kill any future notions your wife has about the OM.

Secondly, in order for your marriage to recover, it will be important to create a romantic relationship using these concepts. That means learning to meet her needs. You should both take the emotional needs questionaires to find out what they are. Don't leave it to guesswork, because you will probably miss the mark.

Additionally, eliminating lovebusters and spending 15 hours a week together meeting the others needs will be critical in rebuilding your marriage.

Do you have any of the Marriage Builders books? I think the ones that would help you the most would be Surviving an Affair, Lovebusters and the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook. I don't know how shipping is to Italy, but maybe you can get them at the library?

Excerpt from Requirements for Recovery:

Quote
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bc
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
Requirements for Recovery


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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To answer your questions, I did go through questioning should I stay married, should I leave... What I finally figured out was that even though I questioned myself, I kept coming home. I know my BH had those thoughts too. Sometimes we still do, but we decided that D is no longer in our language. To truly try and make our marriage work we don't feel we can even see that as an option.
As for the passion/desire.... he still feels that for me but I am finding out that he has a hard time showing his true feelings (even though his words say he feels it, he does not always show it). We are still working on that part. I still don't feel passion/desire for him but I want too which is a lot further along than we were a few months ago. I would do some reading on the SF portion of the website. It talks about imagining being with that person in a romantic way, just think about it... then slowly start reacting to those thoughts. Eventually you will feel the passion again. We are also working on meeting each others ENs. Like I said, he has a hard time showing what he is feeling.
I hope this helps. Keep working... one day it will pay off!


Me - WW - 44
BH - 42
Affair lasted almost 4 years - off and on
Married to a sweet sweet man 15 years
DS - 8
DS - 7
Trying to recover everyday from the pain I caused my family.
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Lizzy2- Thanks for your honest response. How long did you end up going through the stay or go phase? I'm glad that you and your H are working on your marriage, it's people like you and the others here on MB that give me hope.

To all the other posters thank you for your help and interest in my post. I do have a question, why does everyone enforce the exposure part? From what I read on this site it is to be use as a tool if the affair continues. My WW's A is done, there is no way that it will continue. She has given no contact and we are working our each other EN's and trying to spend plenty of quality time with each other. Is it really necessary to damage what we have worked the last month and a half for exposure?

From what I read you want to avoid LB's and stay positive. That is what I'm doing, and what she is trying to do. I know that she is trying to stay in the marriage even though she is having a hard time showing it. It's like Lizzy2 said, "she is still coming home ever night". I appreciate the help on this forum but I think some of you got distracted from my original question. This truly is a great site and the advice that I gain from all of you is much needed. Please look at my original post and give response in regards to what I addressed. Thank you to you all it sucks that we have to have a site for this but at least there is great people here trying to help each other.


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I can back up what Lizzy2 is saying aswell. I ended my A. My H didn't want to tell OMW either but the guys here and me persuaded him that it was the thing to do and it was a good move for both of us. I knew that OM would find it a lot harder to strike up contact if his W knew and although I wanted the end of the A, I knew it would be hard staying away from OM should he make any approach in those early days.

For the last few months of my A and the first few months after dday i wasn't sure whether I should go my own way or stick around - I knew the right thing to do would be to stick around so I decided to make a go of it (Knowing that my h had every right at any point to pull out). Let's give it one last shot.

having read here, I knew it wouldn't be easy but that it would be possible to fall in love again. Like your W, i decided that i had never really been attracted to my H.

I started to fake it to try to make it- pushed myself to be affectionate and force myself to hold his hand - this of course upset him that I should have to do it but I could see that it would work. I showed very little affection and resented my H in those early months but I did want to stay with him.

At 7 months post dday it started to become natural and I began to fall back in love. 10 months post dday and I am in love again - it's a bumpy bumpy road and we are definitely on the up at the mo (I know form those that have gone before me that there are more ups and downs to come and that we're not there yet). And I now remeber that I was attracted to him and he is attractive to me again.

Exposure and honesty with our friends and family drew in support for us -the A was over but I could see that the principal of exposure would give extra insurance against any rekindling.

Keep positive is for sure the key.


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