�I think there is some wisdom in this. As a BS, one often feels that the WS got over on you, walked away with a cache of pleasurable expieriences that you are expected to forgoe, yourself.
So, in additon to hurt and anger and insecurity, there is a fair amount of resentment toward the Ws.�

Desire, motivation for revenge affairs.

�several authors seem to feel that making restitution is a requirement for forgiveness.�

The acts of an affair can not be ubdone.

�quantify the number of sexual encounters, multiply that number by the going rate for hookers in the area, and come up with a $$ fiigure. Toss in the value of the babysitting the BS was doing to help subsidize the affair, the cost of counseling for the BS and the couple, the cost of any expenses associated with the affair, like gifts, entertainment, etc . and arrive at a value.�

Sounds good until you want to put it in play.

Who�s to say the OP was so ugly they couldn�t give it away put had to pay, or if the OP was so hot, they were worth thousands a night?

What if money is so tight, it would take ten to twenty years to pay such a fee. Does the family do without financial needs being met during this penalty time?

�Much of what Dr Harely is recommneding as just compensation, is a compilation of actions, like transparency, honesty, fidelity, etc. that were "givens" in a marriage. These are things that the WS allegedly already committed to by virute of taking his/her vows. In many cases ,they will be behaviors that the Bs was already engaging in all along.�

This is what must be done to recover a marriage.

Though it will never undone what the WS and OP did.

This is why there can never be restitution. No amount of money, vacations, or any other material things will get your WS to undone the things that they did during the affair.

A WS can never take back what they said to the OP. The words can not go back. The sex can not be undone. None of it can be undone.

A marriage can be recovered by the WS being transparent, allowing verification that there is NC with the old OP, and that there is no new OP.

Diamonds, trips, clothes, ect........ COW got paid plenty, it's just that the currencies were different.......

Just compensation from my FWS (tst) included a post-nup.

As a stay-at-home, homeschooling for the last 15 years, I had made a financial and career sacrifice based on the promise of my husband to provide and care for me forever. We together had made a decision based on that promise. When he left me, I faced the reality that I might have to return to work and place my children (at least the ones who were not in college) in school. Every conviction we had based our family on was thrown in the gutter at his choice.

I vowed to myself that I would somehow stay at home with my children. I would work from home, or work part time, or downsize into whatever I could afford and live on what the divorce settlement gave me.

So when FWS left me the second time, I could no longer imagine our marriage ever being what I could live with. I had seen so many horrid things in him, it seemed the man I knew never existed. So I made a list of what character I needed to see restored in him; and then I thought about what actions would demonstrate that character.

The list was very comprehensive, and all the actions always referred back to the character that I needed in him for me to consider the marriage safe.

One of those actions included this post-nup. We took a lot of heat here on MB because of it, especially since I was involved in my own affair just a few weeks before tst asked to reconcile.

Knowing me, tst completely understood why the post-nup was on my list and was in complete agreement in doing one. He knew it was not about the money, but was about compensating for the financial security that he had stripped from not only me, but our children as well. He knew what he had done to THEM and me because we all had to face the possibility of losing our homeschool.

I knew that he would have never agreed to a post-nup in the pre-affair life. So his willingness demonstrated to me his commitment to me and our family. He words to me were that none of the money and none of the stuff mattered if he lost me. THAT was the HEART change I needed to see, and because of the action of the post-nup, he was able to tangibly demonstrate that heart change.

The post-nup was one of the actions that made is safe for me to emotionally return to the marriage because I knew my husband was truly a FORMER WS.

I don�t think a post-nup is appropriate in every case. But when there is a stay-at-home mom (especially long-term) who has given up her financial independence for the family, it is very appropriate.

Just compensation is about actions the make the marriage safe for the BS to return to.

And since my #1 EN is family commitment, the post-nup hit the mark for me. He was willing to sacrifice every bit of financial security for the sake of our family.

His actions told me, "I will never do this again. Every part of me is IN this recovery. I'm completely on board and will hold nothing back." His actions restored our "oneness".

I realize this is not what Zelmo was getting at. Sadly, Zelmo, there is nothing that will restore what you have lost. No amount of money, no amount of assets, because you lost all that you believed your life to be. All you can do is pick up the shattered pieces and build something new whether in marital recovery or not.

This is my definition of restitution. And I have not had it in my marriage, hence one of the reasons I am ending it.

You know, my marriage didn't make it and honestly, I feel like I deserve some restitution from WH. And I have a well of resentment sitting there stewing on it all the time. Some of it is directed to my judicial system which says that it's perfectly ok for him to wake up, pack his bags and go, returning several times while I'm not home to steal my stuff, flaunt his skank in front of my face, rip apart my family, steal items that were given to US as wedding gifts and give them to her stating that even my own relatives meant them for her because she is 10 times the woman I am and everybody knows it and for proof my in laws are going to welcome her into their lives as they toss me to the curb as well. And for the pleasure of all that, it's going to cost me money FOR LIFE as he continues his petty and not-so-petty theft of me and all manors of recourse involve lengthy court processes requiring intense prodding on my behalf to get them to move along at all. Oh - and he can still continue to redirect my mail and mess up my bills and generally commit fraud for the sole purpose of ruining my credit. And this is perfectly legal and acceptable and probably encouraged by some.

WOW.....that's a pretty bold and brazen statement to be making to a whole lot of Betrayed Spouses.......

As far as your pity party, yes when you make a statement saying you suffer as much as your H and that it is "easier" to be a BS it makes me question whether or not you TRULY get the pain and suffering you put your H though.

As Mel said, you had a CHOICE, your H didn't.

FWIW, I unsure if you could put a "price" on what I went through. I CAN say that while we are going through a rough time financially, which is a direct RESULT of H letting his business crumble during the affair, it has been VERY hard to not be resentful KNOWING what was spent from OUR monies on COW......

It has also been hard to know that financially the A didn't affect COW one bit (though I wouldn't have wished this on her H or children).....

I think I did this informally...She had at best 20% of a real relationship(Affair). I partied like a ROCK STAR, dated like 25 women, had a few serious relationships, spent money like water!!! Took trips w/ these women. NO HIDING! It was a hell of a party...I feel totally compensated, and then some. I was single and didn't have a care in the world for all of nine months. I got a guilt free MLC. She had no idea I could reverse the situation like that..WOW, it still gives me goose bumps!! It was that exciting. DUDE

Yeah, but, dudue, you were single, right/ How is that any skin off her teeth? It was your money and your time and yo made no misrepresentations. I don't see how any of that constitutes pay back.
I agree there can be no real way to repay the Bs. Nothing could ever compensate for the pain. But, wouldn't it be nice if the WS at least tried in some way over and above what he or she is normally required to do in a marriage?
For me, knowing myself, a simple apology (well, maybe not all that simple), revelation of details and acceptance of complete responsibility probably would have been enough . So, I don't really think tangible restitution would have been a requirement.
I like the "self wrought" phrase, MEl, and I am glad you applied it to alcoholics, as weel. As a child of a severely abusive alcoholic, I often chafed at the concept that it is a bonafide illness, as opposed to a choice. Just a ton of volition involved.

You are always so impressed with yourself Dude. Try not to break your arm patting yourself on the back for all the RA's while still married.

Yikes, the dude did this while still married? How do Rock Stars party, BTW? Doesn't it vary from star to star?

Zelmo, his wife confessed the A, was repentent and he THEN had the RA's.

...........In the infamous words of Paul Harvey, "Now you know the rest of the story"!

Yeah, some folks do that, apparently. I have heard it complicates recovery . Most of the folks that do this seem to regret it.
I suppose, on a strictly contractual basis, once one party has unilaterally violated the terms of the original agreement, the whole deal is void, thus relieving Dude of any further obligation. One way to look at it, at least. Wonder if the kids would be receptive to this analysis, however.

Please keep in mind that I was a BS long before I became a WS. I am not trying to justify my own A by bringing up my H's actions. I am simply pointing out the fact that I am in a unique position, because I have seen both sides of this. I have experienced the pain of a BS and a WS. For me, the pain I experienced as a WS was far more debilitating than the pain I went through as the BS. You can argue with that all you want, but that was still my experience. No amount of arguing is going to change the way I felt when I was dealing with my H's A and my own A.

I do know how much it hurts to be the BS. My H's A started 1 week after our wedding. When I was 6 mos. pregnant, he called me and told me he was going to be late getting home from work because his car had broken down and he was waiting for a tow truck to take it to the garage to get it fixed. I later found out there was no breakdown. He was with the OW. Another time, the OW had a fight with her H and he got in the car to drive away and she tried to stop him and got knocked to the ground and cut her head. She called my H and asked him to take her to the hospital. I was standing right there when my H took the call. Our kids were in the room. I begged him not to go, but he went anyway, saying that she "needed" him. This went on for 10 YEARS.

Don't tell me that I don't know the pain and suffering that I put my H through.

The reason my own A hit me so hard is because I DID know the pain and suffering that I was causing the people around me, and that knowledge made me hate myself all the more. I knew how terribly wrong A's were and the kind of damage that they could cause, and yet, I did it anyway. Being an OC and a BS, having an A was the last thing on earth I ever believed myself capable of. It was extremely difficult for me to come to terms with the fact that I really didn't know myself at all. For me, that was the worst thing, and the thing that made my own A more difficult to deal with than my H's.

I am not having a pity party. I am describing the things that I went through at the time so that perhaps some of the BS's on here can know that the pain of an A is not one-sided. I used to think it was too, back when I was only the BS. I know better now. I pray that the BS's on here never have to find that out the hard way, like I did.

My M is in R now, and much stronger than I ever thought it could be. There was a time when I never thought I would be able to trust my H again. 10 years of lying just seemed like too much to overcome. It's taken a lot of hard work to get to where we are, and we still have a long way to go. But finally, I feel as though both my H and I are committed to making this work. That, to me, means so much more than any financial restitution.

I know not all M's end up in R. If my M had ended up in D after my H's A (and believe me, we came close) I just don't think any sort of financial restitution could have compensated for the loss of an intact family.

Dud(e)

Still proud of being a cheater?

You got right into the "affair mud" and rutted just as your WW did. Puting a R in front of an A, as in RA, is still just an affair.

No matter how it's painted, named, called, it's still an affair.

You neded to get even. Not the way to go. As your WW needed to bang the OM you needed or wanted to do the same.

Holy smokes! He banged the OM?

**edit**

Eh?

And this thread is about restitution is it not? Thats what I thought was restitution at the time. Looking back, restitution is really Divorce. That is the only real restitution. ALL THE FLOWERS, CASH, RAs, etc are nothing compared to telling your ws "I AM DONE w/ YOU!" "Have a good life!" Not the path I chose. DUDE

Writer, I agree that a prostitution rate may not sit well with you, but to those of us who are betrayed, that's basically the level where you sat during your A. Not saying you didn't come back from that, but there's no need for you to get haughty and tell all of us "how much all waywards suffer."
SPARE.
ME.
I have ZERO sympathy for waywards.
ZERO.
As Melody pointed out, this is self-inflicted.
Your weightloss and thoughts of suicide?
Self-inflicted.
I'm glad your marriage recovered as no one should have to suffer, but you will NOT get much sympathy from BS's on here about your pain from the wayward days.
Sorry.