While I'm sure most waywards want the A talk to go away ASAP, do you think your H's military mindset plays a part of that as well? I know when H was in conflicts he had to tune everything out except for the mission at hand and compartmentalizing stuff is also a coping mechanism for him. Since you were in the military too, maybe your H expects you to be able to switch your thinking moreso than other people. Problem is this your personal life. Hope that makes sense.

Will keep you in my prayers too armymama.

This has been a pretty tough week. Thursday, H and I had a serious discussion about our M options - 1) continuing on as we have been going 2) working harder on the M or 3) going our separate ways.

We had been working on the MB home study course, but have not done anything in the last 3-4 weeks. The last sub-course we did on openess and honestry was very disturbing to us both. H had answered the question "If you were to decide that you would never again be dishonest with your spouse, would you be able to stop" with a "no, because I don't have a perfect self-esteem and still avoid conflict". This was an honest answer to the question, but it was really troublesome to me. My feeling was why should I trust H with my feelings if he is going to continue to be dishonest with me. The As have been weighing heavily on my mind since then.

H says that after working on this sub-course, he has a fear of working on other ones - fear that we would split up.

I am back to not sleeping too well and having nightmares. Last night I dreamt I went into a hotel, everyone there had the OW's face and I could not find the way out of the hotel.

There are several good reasons for me to remain M, none of them related to being in love. In any case, we decided to go back to working on the M and have agreed to work on the sub-courses on Tues and Thurs. Neither one of us like talking on Fri. It just sets a bad tone for the weekend. I am willing to give the M more time and hope for R.

This is still very, very difficult to accept.

AM

he is being dishonest because he wants to avoid conflict ? Why is the affair weighing heavily on your mind, you think he is not totally being honest about the affair or with questions you ask him about it ?

What H cannot commit to is future openness. He keeps quiet to avoid conflict. Before/during the A, I thought everything was good in the marriage, that we were a team pulling in the same direction. I had always been the big planner person, throwing out options for vacations, for finances, for long term planning. I thought we were POJAing (did not know this term then) these things, but actually we were both doing alot of independent behavior, ie did not really have the joint agreement we (I?) thought we had.

H was keeping his opinions to himself. And so, now I know if he does not tell me what he is thinking/feeling, I don't have a clue. Our MC (and I think Jeff Foxworthy says this too) says that most of the time men are thinking about what is not too much of anything, what is going on around them, what their plans might be etc and not how they are feeling about it. So that leaves me clueness.

I don't know why the A is on my mind so much recently. There were some trigger dates that I got through a bit better than I expected. Do I think H has been honest with what he has told me? I don't know. Certainly, all the things that I could verify, he came clean on relatively quickly. On the other things, he engaged in a great deal of "trickle truth", leaving things out or not correcting incorrect impressions, etc. So I guess yes, there are things that I still am not sure about. At this point, it is not the what happened so much as the willingness to be open about it.

I hope the next sub-course starts to get easier.

AM

AM,
How are you? I came here looking for you today. I hope all is going well on the R front.

Golden

Hi Goldenyears,

Thanks for checking in with me. I hope things are well with you. Have you moved into the new place yet?

I thought things had been going really pretty well. H and I were going out of our way to do nice things for each other. I was feeling pretty good about things. Then on Monday last week, I happened to check the keylogger on the computer (had been doing this infrequently, but once in a while just to follow up). The keylogger showed that H had visited porn sites a week ago Friday and then again last Monday. Monday evening I told him that I knew what he had been doing on the computer. He was pretty defensive about it at first, said that I was DJing him, delivering verbal "jabs" to him. I don't really think I was; I was calm and listening to him. I think it was him gaslighting me. Tuesday he had his regularly scheduled PTSD group and he was the big topic of conversation. Basically, he thought that when things are going "too good", he sabotages himself by doing something unacceptable. Of course, it was not his intent to let me know what he had been doing. The other guys in the group do not "get this" behavior. Neither do I. So....... more work to do.

In any case, I have not been sleeping well for the past few days. Last night I had some bad dreams again. I am ready for a good night's sleep. And I am back to not being able to "trust my gut" about how life is - that is a real kicker since I was just starting to trust my own perceptions.

MIL had a minor stoke a couple of weeks ago and is due to get out of rehab facility this week. H is going out west to spend a couple of weeks with her when she first gets home. In the meantime, still a bunch of things to do to get ready for winter.


AM

AM,
From a R standpoint, we are doing pretty well. Every once in a while, I get a little startled by comments that remind me of H's behavior prior to d-day. He used to forward a lot of unsavory emails to male friends; and while I did not care for this, I really never made an issue of it. He volunarily stopped doing this just after d-day (or so he said). This past weekend, a cousin asked him "Does your wife know about the emails you send?" H responded that he doesn't send those anymore, but I have to wonder if he is back at that. I asked him and he said that he has not resumed. I let it go, but I will revisit it in a more secretive way.

I've had a pretty hard few weeks now. My sister died a couple of weeks ago, and both H and I have been devastated along with the rest of our family.

We are facing the anniversary of d-day next month, and H is very anxious about its effect on me. He is planning a trip for us to coincide with the dates. I just keep remembering what one of you told me--that was then; this is now.

Golden,

I am sorry to hear about the death of your sister. It adds to the difficulty to have this loss added to what your M has endured in the past year.

I hope your D-day antiversary goes ok. For me, it was not as bad as what I had thought it was going to be. But, I really made some preparations ahead of time with IC about how to deal with it. I did the same with other dates (dates are a problem for me) and it worked out pretty well. Just knowing that there might be a bad day allowed me to deal with it much better.

I check on H's boundries when the mood suits me - not every day, but once in a while. We are doing better again. H leaves Friday for a couple of weeks with his mother. This is will be the first time we have been apart for any length of time since H returned home from military deployment in summer of 08.

I think it was you that told me, "That was then and this is now".

Best wishes my friend.

AM

A drive by to say hello to am and gy.

You sound a little more calm am...I hope.

Sorry about your sister gy. Stay busy with something fun on the antiDay. That helped me and it passed without much upset.

Thanks for checking in. Yep, compared to last year, I am so calm that I am practically comatose.

AM

hi AM and GY-
i think i was the one who posted that expression -"that was then- this is now". Jennifer Harley Chalmers had said that to me during one of our phone counseling sessions- and it stuck in my brain.

GY- sorry to hear of your sister's passing. also - i know exactly what you mean of seeing remnants of the old personality in my H- i feel exactly the same way- unsettled and unsafe.

AM- glad to hear that you are calm and dealing with things.

my life seems so weird right now - with my H hanging onto anger at me. it is also reminiscent of the old him- which causes me to withdraw....
sf

Sunflower,

I KNEW I heard that phrase somewhere on my thread - the part that disappeared along with my memory..... Hmmmm, maybe that's a good thing.

H left today for a couple of weeks at MIL's. I slipped a little note into his luggage before he left. He should find it when he shaves in the morning.

The ride to the airport was quiet. I was a little worried about how I was going to deal with things. But it is really going ok so far.

SF and GY, I really hope that things will improve for both of you very soon.

AM

OK. I am a mess here. Maybe I need to move this thread back over to the SAA forum.

My H is staying with his mother for a couple of weeks. Left last Friday and has a return ticket for the 14th. This morning, I saw an email that he had sent yesterday, telling someone that H is thinking about looking for another military deployment. I phoned him and he told me that he has not been in love with me for quite some time. So, I asked whether I should call and attorney and he paused and said that was probably a good idea. When I asked about how he would want to split things up, he said we could do that when he comes home. I said, "No, you don't understand. If we divorce, I never want to see or talk with you again. What did you think, we could stay friends?" Now he is saying that he wants to be with me, wants to be in love with me, but just isn't having those feelings. He thinks he is depressed and feeling isolated. MIL probably isn't helping things. Her idea of support is to tell you to do whatever makes you happy.

I feel as though every time things are going along ok, the rug gets pulled out from underneath. There is no way I can even trust my own perceptions and feelings. Life sucks again.

AM

Armymama,
OMG!!! I hardly know what to say. Sometimes there just aren't enough words to help with someone's grief. Please know that I am devastated with your news.

If you want to email me so that we can have another type of dialogue, please do.

**edit**

Your friend,
GY

AM,
Your most recent post has been on my mind constantly since I read it several hours ago.

First of all, there is absolutely no excuse for your H's most recent bombshell. Something, however, doesn't add up.

First, he says call the lawyer. Then he says he wants to come home, he wants to love you, etc. He's visiting his mother, who--if remember correctly--told you how bad it was that you had insisted upon the lie detector test. You also mentioned that her experience with infidelity was handled with her just accepting the betrayal and never working through it--thereby just existing rather than truly loving and living. It sounds as if she might have really added to whatever problems your H might have had in the back of his mind.

As I relayed this latest horror of yours to my H, he wondered if your H might also be suffering from an identify crisis because of his retirement from the army. My H was not making excuses for yours but trying to figure why your H seems so contraditory in his emotions and reactions at this point.

Unfortunately, his scheduled trip home to his mom's came too soon after the revelation of his looking at porn sites. He obviously left town feeling like a bit of a loser. I'm just theorizing here.

Having been out-of-town a great deal over the last six months caring for my dying sister, I know how being separated from your recovery partner can play havoc with your mind.

I'm anxious to hear from you. I hope you're okay.

GY

Thanks GY,

Today has been difficult (can I underestimate any more than that?). In further phone calls, H admitted a couple of things to me. He emailed the OW last Sunday telling her that he still loved her. He said he did not hear anything back from her, but who knows what to believe anymore. He also admitted that the last time he saw her in July 2008 (I think my acount of that day is somewhere on MB, but not on this thread.) In any case, he admitted today that he and she professed how much they still loved each other. This is not what he had told me about this conversation. Sooooooo....... another lie that he had been withholding for 16 months comes out. He says he came home because that was what was expected, and he tried to recover the marriage because that was expected.

He says he needs time to think about what he wants. He says he still loves the OW and with me, it was "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" kind of thing for the past year and a half. This amazes me. We had ups and downs, but overall I really thought things were going ok. SF was goood; we did things to please each other. Just Fri, I slipped a love note into his luggage telling him how much I cared for him.

I don't expect much support from MIL. I think she will say to just do what makes you happy. I did talk to OWH today to tell him about the email. His take was, "Well, tell your H ifi he wants OW, to come and get her." He is pretty ffed up with her. Finally, I talked to my SIL. BIL had infidelity in their marriage and I never knew this, but BIL actually moved out for 6 months. I asked her how she was able to recover the M and she gave me the same kinds of things that we had already been doing. I called my IC, got her voice mail, but did not sound very urgent on the phone and she did not call me back.

Amazingly, in spite of everything today, I baked a couple of pies for church dinner, got them delivered, picked up DS15 after sport's practice, fed him (OK cheated and took him to McDonald's), and went back to the school to sign him up for winter sports. I have a pretty bad headache, but otherwise, I think I am ok. I also told DD36 about what is going on. She thinks H has lost his mind and advice was for me to figure out why I am staying in this - because of fear of unknown (at 57, I don't feel like I could start a new life) or because H and I have been married for so many years. Don't know.....

Thanks for the email address. I will send an email to you.

GY, the last thing I want to ever do is to get in the way of your and H's recovery. I don't want to burden you so if you don't want to talk to me about this, I understand perfectly.

AM

Last night I prayed really hard before I went to bed and slept well (I have always been an early riser). Yesterday evening, I talked to all kinds of people who care about us. I finally told DS15 about the affair and about what it happening now. he, of course, knew that something was wrong all along, but did not know what it is. I think i will really have to watch him. He is not much of a talker and seemed ok. But, of course, that worries me too. DD36 asked if H had lost his mind. I said that he was really depressed and "lost" and she sure agreed with that. She asked me why I had been staying - ie because of fear or the future or because it had been so many years married and was comfortable? I don't know the answer to that question. I talked to two of H's SILs; neither of whom knew about the A. DS21 is in Iraq and happened to be on computer when I was; so we chatted on line. He was VERY angry at the news. 1) wanted to call OW's command - don't think this would help since she already got an Article 15 punishment for the affair and did not answer his email from Sunday. Both DD36 and DS21 think I should divorce H. Also, if H tries to come back on active duty, I think DS21 will really squawk. His comment was that he did not want H in HIS Army.

I talked to her H on the phone and OW did not tell him about the email either, but came home from work in an unexpextedly happy mood babbling on about the hundreds of emails she had gotten while she had been out last week. She sent me one last night, subjuct line happy? saying that she had receivedH's email, did not answer , never wants to hear from either of us again, that she and H are struggling in their marriage. She cced H on it so techinically she did contact him and let him know that their M is struggling. I sent one back impulsivelyly saying "F... U..., you selfish b....." don;t know if the posts are lost of not, but this is VERY atypical language for me. Can't remember if i posted this or not yesterday (was out of it for most of the day), but when I told OWH's about the email, he said, "Come and get her". She lies to him over everything, he needs O&H and has never gotten it.

Ah well, where I am this morning after that good night's sleep (Thank you, Lord). I have decided to basically write a plan B letter. If H decides he would like to come home, I will have a list of conditions to do that, including more intense therapy than just his PTSD group, consider anti-depressants if medically advisable, continue the transparency (I fould all this mess out from keylogger and reading his emails), commitment to the marriage, attendance at an MB weekend, etc. I will take some time to work on this this morning. If H decides he does not want to come home, I never want to see or talk to him again. I will ask that he identify an IM (one of his brothers or sisters or maybe my brother), he make a list of what things he wants and they arrange for him to get whatever it is.

Well, that's where it stands. Thank you so much for the support I get here. I know several do not read on this forum, but still I thank MelodyLane (her posts are so decisive and this morning, I was thinking "What would ML do in this situation?", Queenie - you have lived the power of prayer and your faith showed me that it is possible to know G-d and have Him present in everyday life. Mark - you have never posted to me, but I have used many of your thoughtful and analytical posts. Goldenyears and Sunflower, thank you for being there. I am sorry that I can't be your "point man". I really, really want the best for the two of you.

After I post this, I will ask the mods to move it over to SAA, where it rightfully belongs.

AM

I don't think I've ever posted to you before AM, but I've just read your update and I want you to know that I am thinking of you.

For those of us in recovery it is our worst nightmare, and I m so sorry you are going through this.

I know you know this, but it's worth repeating. It is your H who is broken, this is not about you and your worth. Not at all. You are a wonderful, caring, thougtful and loyal woman and you deserve none of this.

Your H is clearly in some sort of crisis, maybe sparked by his mum's illness.

I hope you can sort this out. Please take care of YOU. Make sure you eat, sleep and take some exercise, and look after yourself.

Thank you. The first thing I thought of yesterday was what I had been doing wrong. But you are right. H is the one who is broken.

I hope to make an appt with IC today. I had not gone in a couple of months because I had been doing so well. But I think I'm going to need it.

Thanks again for the post.

AM

I just received a call from the school to substitute teach today. H1N1 is making the rounds.

In any case, my intent is to work on a Plan B letter today. I would like to post it for comments later this afternoon.

Thanks to the MB participants for being here for me. Thanks to the mods for moving my thread and changing the name. You guys are the best.

AM