Nite..

This is excellent. Allow me to add:

1) Despite all the hurtful things an xWS does/says/has done/has said, it is normal for the xBS to "still love them" deep inside for what they once meant.

2) I'd bet all the tea in China that the xWS has that same irony going on deep inside towards their xBS too, especially after the affair-fantasy, ga-ga, honeymoon phase dissipates (as it ALWAYS does). They will do all they can to appear happy & content to the outside world but it is almost always a facade.

3) Real love is ultimately a CHOICE...in this case, a choice the WS/xWS must make to demonstrate that. We all know from MB what is required and every BS, divorced or not, makes a CHOICE to not love anymore ("close the door") at some point if the WS remains unrepentant.

4) Does it help the WS/xWS to know that the BS/xBS is "not yet with anyone else"? ABSOLUTELY! It allows them to mentally cake-eat ("my ex still is hung-up on me!"). That is one reason why ultra-dark NC is best. Any contact should be only if absolutely necessary, brief, and unemotional "business-only". Use an IM if possible. Remember, that which appears to be readily available tends to have far less appeal than that which appears to be out-of-reach or slipping away. This is why so often crazy ex's will stir up drama or create new legal battles if the xBS completely ignores them for a sustained period of time...they want you to "think of them" and negative is better than nothing at all to them.

5) The above is NOT a good reason to use someone else or jump into a relationship too fast. Therein lies the anatomy & motivation of the dreaded revenge affair or rebound relationship. Those are inappropriate and almost never work long-term anyway.

6) After divorce, when truly ready, and when the right person comes along ("right" for the right reasons), the xBS being 'with somebody' has a devastating impact on the xWS. Seen it multiple times. Dr. Pittman in Private Lies writes: (paraphrasing--and this was written about the natural history of affair-marriages) "it is eerily common how often the ex-spouse truly moving on closely coincides with the ex-infidel's affair/re-marriage disintegrating and ending for good."

Cat,

Believe me, the "admissions" & "apologies" I heard--phony, self-serving, insincere, and avoiding-of-responsibilty as they were--did nothing for me in terms of closure. In fact, the half-hearted confessions/contritions only pissed me off all the more. I knew they were far more about xWW trying to placate me into not thinking poorly of her actions than they were about REAL remorse and repentance. Otherwise, she would have told the TRUTH--the full truth--and backed it up with actions. Those things were said/written for HER benefit, not mine.

Basically, she wanted me to pat her on the head, validate that she's a good little girl after all, and send her on her way without having to feel any guilt or shame for what she did. Trust me, you are better off without being patronized in that way.

The weird thing is that, to this day (it's a long story how I know all this but I do know it be very true), my xWW is still extremely vexed and annoyed by the fact that she knows her former family, friends, and ME think she's now a lying, betraying, backstabbing, homewrecking, TRAMP.

You would think that someone who is so fulfilled and satisfied by her "great new life" would care less what her long-ex family, friends, and husband think about her. But she does! Despite never even saying goodbye and making no effort whatsoever at amends, she is totally pissed off that I think of her as a deceitful slut and all those from her 'old life' know the truth and feel likewise. She hasn't been able to face a single one of them in 3 years.

In addition, she nonsensically blames me for turning "her true friends" (meaning those who went along or didn't ask too many tough questions) against her since. I have not spoken to any of these people and wouldn't if I could. I have heard that she now has virtually no friends at all. Apparently, it has not occurred to her that these people probably figured her out, saw through her lies, witnessed her trashy lifestyle, and backed away on their own over time.

FIND A MIRROR--THE ANSWERS ARE RIGHT THERE.

My xWW wrote me: "I hoped we could be friends or at least friendly". I told her basically to F-off in response and that I would never lower myself to validate her actions that way. Her OM was also married and she has despicably abused and mistreated OMW and the boy they had together.



They all seem to affair-down don't they? WAY DOWN! My xWW's OM is a high-school dropout, dishonorably discharged from the service, a drug user, vastly older, short with a big beer gut, a serial cheater and abandoner of his 3 kids (from 3 different women), and now a 3-time adulterer/divorcee. She is now the 4th-choice wife of an 8th-rate man with no friends, family, or career to speak of. Good luck with that one!

They all seem to be so insecure and desperate that they will hook-up with whatever trash pays them some attention when they are vulnerable. Talk about "settling"...

As a BS who did not recover a 26 year marriage. I can say that for the first year after the big D my feeling were like so many of you. I wanted the the exwh to repent and apologize and just fall apart. I grabbed on to whatever little bit of drama him and the OW had, hoping for an end to it all.

Well none of those things happened, but as time went on I grew stronger and more independant and came to the conclusion it never would happen. Finally one day I woke up and realized i didn't care anymore.

He married the skank and now every other week or so they are fighting and threating each other with divorce. As for me i ma happily remarried and could care less.

I very seldom speak to him except for things about our children or grandchildren. When I have to be in the same place as him for B-Day parties or something it does not affect me. Its like looking at a stranger someone i don't know. He still is living in the fog and makes no sense half the time.

I did all the right things i exposed to everyone and it made no difference in the affair. His family was my biggest allies in the whole thing. They supported me emotionally through it all. I am still very close to my exmil. I go see her weekly and help care for her because she is dying from cancer. She still tells everyone i am her daughter in law not the skank.

I really believe some waywards never come out of the fog or if they do its way to late and they will settle for the OW because the BS has moved on and does not care anymore. In my case I believe thats the case. He is the type who will stay where he is at to prove he was right and justified in his behavior. So be it.

The most important thing is I am happy and content in life wih a person who treats me like a queen and I sometimes wonder why I allowed myself to put up with exwh's crap for so long.

It does get better and you just have to set your mind to making yourself happy and not worrying about the wayward. You will find life so much better.

Just remember what goes around comes around and when the day comes they fall to the bottom hopefully you will be in a better place and not care. Life is to short and precious to worry about someone who treats the BS like dirt.

Let me summarize what I think I've learned so far, after having a divorce forcibly rammed down my throat by a completely unrepentent WS. The divorce was my punishment for standing up to him about his girlfriends and refusing to be part of his collection of girls:

1) Use Plan B to protect you. Yeah, I know, you're actually in Plan D, but you can use the principals of Plan B to protect yourself. That's how I think of it. Everybody I talk to, from the doctor's office to the insurance guy to our former mutual friends to my children know full well NOT to tell me ANYTHING about what XWS is doing, thinking, or feeling.

Unfortunately, I still get sledgehammered by his actions even when I did nothing to look for it. I go to the doctor's office (which I now pay for myself because I have no health insurance since the divorce, thank you very much) and the receptionist shoves a clipboard in my face and says, "Oh, is this your new address?" And it's the apartment where XWS moved when he ditched the family home. I did not know where he was until then. WHAM.

Or I have to talk to the car insurance guy about having the insurance put in my name, and he says, "Oh, I see XWS is buying a house in ________!" I immediately cut him off, but it's too late. WHAM.

Or I go to Home Depot to see about a line of credit to fix some stuff at the house, and the call center person says, "Is this a former address of yours?" And it's XWS's slut-magnet apartment. WHAM.

I can only imagine what kind of crap I'd be going through if I didn't have extreme precautions in place, when stuff like the above still gets through.

The ringers are turned off on the house phone and have been since he left some 18 months ago. I only have the house phone for the security system.

I never answer my cell phone unless it's been pre-arranged a few minutes before. I do not listen to any voice mail messages. I only have it in case I need to call out, like to 9-1-1. People who really need to get hold of me, like work or the kids, have ways of doing so.

My e-mail is blocked to the hilt. Only a select few addresses, like work and the kids, are allowed in. Everything else is blocked.

The best thing about this is I am never waiting for the phone to ring or checking email to see if he's sent anything. He used to torment me massively with phones and email, mostly by ignoring me but sometimes by throwing a little crumb of attention, or calling and lying and saying he was in for the evening when he was really on his way out with some girl or to a strip club, or drunk-dialing from Shanghai or Chicago about how much fun he was having sitting in the bars with his wonderful, wonderful, ever-so-valued female coworkers.

I'm sure a headshrinker would recognize that this is part of the hypervigilance of PTSD, but hey, my first rule is to protect myself from ever suffering one more drop of his cruelty. And it works.

So, rule #1: Protect yourself. Plan B, Plan B, Plan B.

Wow, that was a lot for #1, wasn't it?

2) Try to find things that comfort you. Collect them. Have a plan for each day, no matter how simple.

3) It's okay if you still love them. Don't let anyone tell you you're "sick" to feel that way, or "need help", or should "forget it and move on." I tell them that in my opinion, anyone who can just sh*t on and destroy a 27-year marriage and family because this make them "happy" is the sick one and needs help. Very, very serious help. As long as you are protecting yourself from WS abuse (see above), it's okay if you still love the person they were before they took a very, very bad path.

4) Tell the truth. Anyone who has any reason to know what happened to my marriage, from relatives to friends to the insurance guy to the neighbors, all hear the same thing: "He had to choose between his girlfiends and his family, and he chose his girlfriends. It's been very hard and a really terrible loss for all of us."

No weasel words. No lying and covering for him or his girlfriends. I've had one or two people tell me to keep quiet and not to say such things. My response was, "If you want lies, you can talk to XWS and he'll give you plenty of lies to feel good about. If you talk to me, you will get the truth."

And if that doesn't work, "Eat Me" might get the point across.

Hang in there. This has been an excellent thread. Thanks, Tabby.
Mulan

Oklahappy, that is a very inspiring story. If i am honest, i am glad my WW is out of my life. She is a biatch,
I have remained close to my in-laws, as well. I am sure the OM is confused by this(although he is a pretty dim bulb , and attributing confusion to him may be giving him too much credit in terms of the ability to form a thought.)
My XWw is a dumb, selfish, promiscuous skank and living with her was just about the loneliest expierience of my life.

Zelmo I am glad I inspired you. Thats not to say I didn't want to save the marriage I really tried . I planA'd my butt off but my plan B was less than stellar. I tried but every crumb he threw I lept for. Looking back I see how sad and scared I was I would loose him forever.

as it turned out it was the best thing for me. I became more independant and relied on myself. For so long i counted on him now I realize thats not how I want to live my life. I will never rely on anyone again. My new H is wonderful and I don't worry about him having a A but I know if anything ever happens I can do it on my own.

Yeah the skank can't stand the fact I still see my exmil. Her problem though not mine. She even accused the exwh of using his family as a way of still knowing about me.... HUH? we don't even discuss them its just a waste of energy.

The one thing I try and say is don't close yourself off to the wonderful things that will come in your life. There is someone out there who will love you and treat you right. When the time is right and your ready it will happen...

Amen

For most of us, our marriages had passed the stage of "romantic" love into the next stage which I guess is called "true love" (according to the 31 Reasons author). Our WS's 'true love' feelings are being masked by the overwhelming "romantic love" feelings for the OP. When our waywards leave, we try to hang on so we also start getting back those romantic love feelings for them that had faded. I think that is part of human nature - to want what you might be losing even more. It's the "don't know what you've got 'till it's gone" kind of thing which intensifies our feelings for them.


Yes, it ALWAYS does. I truly believe that most waywards wish that it had never happened, wish that they could get the feelings back for their spouse, wish that they could end it etc. but they can't. Their reasoning is blurred by the emotions. Why do you think some of them try to cake-eat so long? Mine was one of those.


There are just some WS who will never feel remorse. Face it. They feel that they have found something better and never look back. When the A ends or the affairage ends, they just go on to another one. My brother was one of those. Only now that he is pushing 65 does he realize that there is no perfect relationship or marriage. He openly admits that leaving his first wife was the biggest mistake he ever made. Two failed M and a third on on the rocks suddenly makes them look at things a little differently.

It's like the song says "I will never get over you getting over me." I also think that in their minds, they think that they maybe they can go back if the A doesn't last, so knowing that the BS is there and waiting makes it easier for them....

Very true.

I think it takes about as long to heal and move on as it does for the A to burn out.

I am also a BS who didn't save thier marriage although it wasn't from the lack of trying and praying. I used to post under Stillhurting01. My exWh had an A in 2001 and 2006. He left in 9/06 and our divorce was final 3/08. He is still with ow although from what I hear it is on/off. Times during the last 1 1/2 years he would occassionally texted and make me feel like he was thinking about coming home etc. (cakeeater), At the time I would take any crumbs because I wanted to reconcile so badly and he knew it. Then in late spring it was the straw that broke the camels back for me I see the whore drive by my house and him driving right behind her (yes he moved down the street from me) and after my tears I thought what the he!! am I waiting for?
That's when I really began to see him for who he has become, my fogg was lifting. I began to entertain the thought of dating, maybe just putting my foot out there. Thought about speed dating almost went to an event but it was canceled the last minute. I work per diem for a chain pharmacy and one day there was this guy there fixing the automated dispensing machine. He was there for a few hours at my feet and I kept having to walk over him. He was fun interacting with all of us. I noticed that he wasn't wearing a ring. So when he left I asked one of my co-workers if he was single cause he was kind of cute. She joked with me that she was going to tell him and he was single. I just laughed because when would I ever see this guy again. Fast forward 2 or 3 weeks later and I go into work and she hands me his number and says he wants me to call him. OMG it took me 3 days to get the courage to call. The rest is our short history. We have been seeing each other ever since and I can really say I am falling for him. It's been the happiest 31/2 months that I have had in many years. My kids like him, my friends like him and are so happy for me. I'm happy for me.
And the kicker is that I really think my ex is jealous, he'll text me things like do I ever think about us any more. And about how much I'm seeing him etc. I just ignore it for the most part.
So to make a long story short... there is happiness after divorce even when you didn't want it. It's a journey, mine was very long and painful and I never thought I would be happy again without my exH, and now I am happier than I have been in a very long time.

Still

Still I am so happy for you. Things do have a way of working out for all BS's. Your right the road is a long and hurtful one but somehow we manage to pull ourselves up and move ahead.

As far as the exwh to bad so sad for him. Its the choice he made now he has to live with it, without you.... Feels good to be happy again ..... I wish you all the luck in the world .....

Still,

So glad that things turned out well for you. Another success story of someone who recovered themselves but not their M. I hope to get there too someday....

I read a great quote from Dr. Gary Chapman: "Actions PRECEDE feelings. Not the other way around. Positive actions lead to positive feelings and vice versa". Virtually all waywards are so intensely focused on their FEELINGS only. They 'reason' that they have lost/degraded their feelings for their BS and have 'found'/developed feelings for their affair-partner...therefore they must "follow their heart", leave their BS, and be with their OP as their 'true soulmate'.

They don't realize (and don't want to even consider) the following:
1) Their feelings for the OP didn't appear magically out of thin air--they resulted from (inappropriate) ACTIONS over time.

2) There is nothing unique, special, or predictive over the longer-term about these affair 'feelings'. They appear (temporarily) powerful because of the secrecy, vulnerability, neediness, and 'danger' that are/were present in the affair's early stages.

3) These feelings WILL NOT LAST. Sooner or later, the infatuation wears off, the fantasy dissipates, and the WS will have to confront the (usually ugly, step-down) reality of the situation & OP they have chosen to be with.

4) The affair feelings are not set in stone. If the WS breaks away and goes to sustained NC, they will evaporate as 'magically' as they appeared.

5) Likewise, 'not being able to get feelings back for the BS' is also a total myth. Many WSs, esp during the cake-eating period, will 'date', talk to, and even counsel with their BS--later claiming that they "tried but couldn't get it back". They don't seem to consider that (at best) half-hearted, insincere actions cannot result in positive feelings. Only ending the A and fully committing to positive actions toward the BS will result in the resumption of the positive feelings they claim to seek.

The hallmark of Real Love are ACTIONS...commonality, sharing, bonding, honesty, empathy, kindness, conciliation, forgiveness, etc. The focus of Romantic Love (which is nothing but a euphemism for addictive, consuming infatuation) are euphoric FEELINGS. The wayward, like the teenager in puppy love, will seek to follow and indulge these feelings no matter how hopelessly inappropriate or irrational they are. How many times have you seen a WS affair with a type of person (married, vast age difference, shady, tons of baggage, socially dysfunctional, etc.) whom they never would have considered to be suitable partnership material previously??? ALL THE TIME.

One more excellent quote from Dr. Chapman: "Following your feelings in the absence of your standards and values is the surest path to personal ruin."

I related that exact quote to my then-WW (you know how well WSs react to logic) and she said:
"I'm not ruining my life, SDCW....and that's a chance I have to take!"

Chai you will, for some it just takes a little longer. Give yourself time to build strength and grieve the loss. Its not easy for sure I can attest to that.

The easiest way for me was to ignore and cut off any contact with exwh. Once that happened my lovebank went broke. I can now look back and remember the good times from years ago and not cry. I can smile about them and remember them with fondness. I guess for me and i would say alot of BS's we still have some kind of love or feelings for the ex but its not the spouse they became on D-day we care for its the person we married and shared a life wih. Once they became wayward the person we knew vanished.

Just remember your dealing with a new and not improved person in a wayward. So forget about him and take care of you...... You will get there I promise.......

Oklahomahappy (sp?)
I followed your story way back when and I am so happy for you.
I don't know where this relationship will lead but I'm enjoying the run... He treats me very well.

Chai, I have followed your story also. It's heartbreaking all that you have gone through and believe me I was praying for you. It will take time to get over the divorce. For a very long time it would absolutely kill me to say exH or that I was divorced to people who didn't know me. Then one day it slipped out of my mouth and it didn't hurt so much. There are still times when I see my ex and a twinge tweaks my heart, but I'm coming to realise that it was for the could of beens and should of beens not necessarily him. I mean this past October should of been our 25th anniversary. But life is going on and I will not waste any more years on him... looking forward to my new beau and our can be's.

Still

Thank you so much for this thread. It has given me much to think about.

AM

Okla and still, thank you for sharing your success stories with us...I know it helps me to see the light at the end of this long and painful road...

SDCWman, thanks for sharing your wisdom....I still have a very hard time in that I just feel sooo unlovable, I cant get over the fact that he just feels nothing for me anymore, why wasnt I worth even trying to save our marriage...im stuck in the self pity rut and I gotta get out...

But you are right, it is a choice that the waywards made when they decided to put all their attention towards someone else instead of their BS...They dont realize that if they put that attention towards us they would have stayed in love with us...

I definitely believe that my WH chose not to love me anymore, just like I am trying to do now to him...but it was a lot easier for him because he had someone else to fall in love with at the time..

stillhere {
I definitely believe that my WH chose not to love me anymore, just like I am trying to do now to him...but it was a lot easier for him because he had someone else to fall in love with at the time..}


Maybe I'm wrong because who really knows what goes on in the mind of a wayward.

But I think it's not a choice but the easy way out, he does not have it in him to make right what he has done wrong....

It's easy to invest in something new rather than manning up and putting in the work to restore something.

Still,

It's isn't easy to put that love we had for our WS's behind us. Beleive me I struggled with that for a very long time. Too long.
What I do now when those feelings pop into my head and sometimes heart I bring back the memories of all the hurt ad pain he caused me. All the times he was with me before he left and made me feel alone even thou he was right there.
It was a choice he made for all of my family to leave, and we have to suffer through the consequences. But now he is suffering, I know he hates to see me with someone else. It kills him that my DD's have met my new guy and want nothing to do with his whore. He brings it up and they tell him no f'ing way. He doesn't even see the difference. This wasn't the man I fell in love with. He is a shell of a man now.
I had reached out to him so many times over the last 3 years and was always faced with rejection.... now it bothers him that I'm not reaching out to him anymore.
I love my new life, it's not perfect but it is mine and I can choose who I want to share it with.
I was alone a long time before I met D, I have healed for the most part but I will always have scars. D is helping me whether he realises it or not he makes me laugh and that is some good medicine.

Still