There seems to be a fair amount of posters who, like me, are persuing personal recovery rather than marital recovery. If I think about it, it may seem strange to an outsider that we spend so much time on a BB devoted to marriage building. Clearly there's something here that we need or we wouldn't keep coming back. We have been deeply scarred by our WS's adultery and nowhere but a place that discusses this in depth is going to have the answers we're looking for.

There are also a number in Plan B sitting on the fence about whether to jump to Plan D or not. I believe they are facing many of the same issues.

So I'd like to devote a thread to us - the BS's who are NOT recovering their marriages and the issues we face. I don't want to put this in the Divorced forum as I'd like to focus more on healing from adultery rather than the divorce process itself. I'll start with some of the issues I still have.

It's been roughly 2 1/2 years since WXH moved out. I've done a variety of things to remove traces of him from my life. I've eliminated all but essential contact with him. I moved (twice actually) and am gradually replacing furniture, decorations and anything that resembles my former life with him. I have a reasonably good circle of friends, though being a woman north of 40 I never was able to connect with anyone who is available at the drop of a hat to do anything. I still struggle with memories a lot. So much of my life was spent with him that it's impossible to forget. And I can also be defensive of those memories - he took everything else why should he take those too kind of thinking. I haven't resolved this yet.

I also have a simmering pot of anger brewing constantly. I seem to have excellent control over it as I haven't boiled over on anyone (yet), but I know it's there. It's still causing damage. I read here almost every day and try to help where I can but there are soem threads that I can't open or if I do that pot of anger starts to rise. Mostly I don't post to those threads but when I do it's pure venom. I identify closely and am almost envious of other posters who express anger so elequently (Krazy and Pariah come to mind).

My day to day life IRL is pretty good. It's more the underlying issues in my head. I feel like I still have lots to do. The occassional communication with WXH that I can't avoid virtually always aggrivates these feelings. Each time I think - this will be the last issue I'll have to deal with him about, but it never is. We're currently awaiting small claims court trial. It will likely take place in the new year. Who knows what the next thing will be. When they said marriage was for life, they didn't mention that even in divorce you're stuck fighting with your spouse for life.

So what about the rest of you? What issues are you stuck on? How do you cope with them?

A couple of things, Tabby. First, I feel the confusion about why I, who most people like and who was never a huge grudge holder, have the nagging desire to pay my WS back. It's hard to reconcile my self image, with this person that is so pissed about this. I envy those who can just let it go and who do not, on some level, view it as a personal attack or reflection of their own deficiencies. It absolutely galls me that my XWW blames me for all this and that she made out better in the divorce than me, when she was the one cheating.
Second, I am just not sure, at all, that I will ever trust a woman again. And, I like trusting people. Seems too exhausting to always have to be on guard.
And, I beat myself up some over not having seen it happening or coming.
In my good moments, which are increasing in frequency, I can see that i am more self reliant and I realize just how strong I am to have survived this twice. Iam free to do as I please, most of the time and to associate with those i like.
I am way more empathetic to others, too and way less judgemental of others.

I've been in a dark PB for a little over 3 months. My WH is making no moves to do anything that I know of. He and OW still work together. I am well on my way to a personal R. I'm in fact doing extremely well. Outside of loosing a very close friend to cancer last week, I'm progressing at a steady pace. That was a hard blow and it set me back a bit. The grief and anger from that loss intermingled with the grief and loss of my M and H. It was overwhelming. But once I was able to attend the services and grieve with her family and friends I was able to separate the two. I don't think I've properly grieved the (possible/probable) loss of my M. The thoughts of him are always at the forefront of my mind but most of the time I'm able to keep things at a very low simmer. I am angry, very angry. I don't know what is going to come of that....I'm very hurt as well which is a given....

My plan is to just keep on keeping on and work on me and take one day at a time. I'm praying for a miracle but I'm also being realistic about the whole thing. Someone said that I may very well outgrow him and I know that is a possibility.

I'm pretty happy right now. My DD and I are good. I've been working on my parenting skills too and that is going well. My IC is very proud of me. She said so just last night I'm also focusing on my relationship with Christ and that is where my strength comes from. No doubt about that. I'm just trying to follow his lead.

Hi Tabby,

I'm really doing well, considering the total soap opera my life has been over the last year. I go very long periods of time and never even think about the xWW.

I think part of the reason is that we had become so detached before the D.

I will post more on this later - Tabby, you started this thread for me, didn't you?


Oh, you are so right about this. This is the worst of my constantly present anger. I found out long after the fact that for *years*, XWH never talked about me in the workplace *at all*. It was like I didn't even exist. So, the tramps and sluts that he hired to work for him (just like David Letterman did) felt free to assume that I must be a colossal and horrible b*tch and were therefore justified in dating him.

I know that everybody at work blames me. Why not? They didn't know me, except through him, because *even when I worked at the same corporation* they only knew me through him. So what impression do you think they got? He never spoke of me. He never acknowledged my existence if he possibly could. He wanted the girls to know he was fully available and it's hard to do that if you're chatting to them about your wife.

Of course, his family blames me because blood is thicker than sh*t. They're part of the "whatever makes you happy" crowd. Good thing shooting up heroin or embezzling from his employer didn't make him happy. I guess they would have been fine with that, too.

Yes, it really does enrage me that I am blamed, both for the reasons above and because for some reason people just automatically assume that if your spouse cheats on you, YOU caused it and YOU deserved it. That's why I do not hesitate to tell people the truth about this stuff and what happened to me. Maybe at least a few eyes will be opened.


Ha! Let us girls know where there's a MAN we can trust!
Mulan

My heart goes out to you tabby. My fwxw says, "You never opened up emotionally to me!" Ya think?!! That A about sums up the reason why. Although we had good times over the years, I never opened myself up to her too much emotionally. In then end, that saved my a$$. I can see how things might have been differenct had I allowed myself to be hurt more. I think that is the trick. No matter what, other than your kids, just dont give too big a [censored] about. It is the greatest shield from waywards/crazy family members!! I realize a lot of people on here are much more hurt than me emotionally/finacially. I'll try and keep that in mind when I make jokes about the whole wayward mindset. It is so stupid its hard not to laugh if it didn't hurt people so badly...So, those BS that are abandoned and in Plan B/D, I pray you receive the IR you so desperately desire.

BTW - Does the fact that some WS get abandoned/dumped, give you any sympathy towards them at all? Knowing the pain of having you spouse walk? I'm just curious...DUDE

BS dumped by WS = Selfishness and Cruelty

WS dumped by BS = Justice.
Mulan

Well I guess I've been abandoned.....and not even for the OW necessarily. She never left her BH. But I suppose they're still having their disgusting A. I have no idea and I don't concern myself with that anymore. I've finally accepted the fact that I can't control nor change him. He's on a path of destruction as far as I'm concerned and I'm just glad I'm no longer on that bus.

Tabby,

Thanks for starting this thread. Lately I have been having a VERY hard time. I've been D'd over 2 years now, but still come here to read posts because the people here have been through it.

It is so hard to talk to my friends etc., who never had adultery affect them. So many times in the last few weeks I've heard...GET OVER IT! IT'S BEEN 2 YEARS NOW!!!! MOVE ON! GET A LIFE!

Sorry, but for some reason it's not getting easier for me.

I'm still in IC. Helps to talk, but I have ALOT of anger and want revenge.

ExH was the one that cheated, tossed me aside, now he M'd the OW, they have a new baby and are living very well from what I hear. He just bought another new car!

He totally has moved on, why can't I?

That hurts to know that 20+ years with him meant nothing if he has moved on so fast.

Me, I am struggling. Trying to do the best I can for my kids. Am jealous that ExH has someone to be there for him when he gets home from work everyday, someone to vent to etc. Jealous he has $$, jealous that the OW got the H and life that I should have had.

I've been out on a few dates, but no one interested me. I was with ExH over 20 yrs., so I guess I still compare the dates to him. Big mistake I know, just can't help it.

His friends stayed his friends. I guess they have no problem associating with a cheater. Blows my mind that he is still VERY well respected at work and no one cares that he left his wife and kids for a M'd woman 17 yrs. younger!

Yeah I'm bitter, yeah I want him to pay, I want his "affairage" to end, I want the happiness he has. It's not fair that he was the one that cheated and now he has it all. I didn't ask for this to happen to me, I am having a hard time financially and emotionally, and he's living the life of Riley! We could have been extremely comfortable money wise, had he not left, and I was willing to work on the M, now I count every penny I have and I'm alone.

I just can't get it out of my head that life has changed, it's not the way it was, never will be again, and I have to deal with it. I never wanted a D, wanted to live with my H till the end. Now OW gets to.

I know I sound like a super spoiled brat, but you asked what issues I'm stuck on and having a hard time with and there they are...

A very nice way of looking at it. Yes, it is nice to be away from a messed up idiot.

Catgirl, actually, you sound very healthy and normal to me. I have a hard time believing those folks that get dumped like this who claim they are not hurting.
2 years is not that long and anyone would be affected by the injustice of this. You are honest enough to admit feelings that i think many are too proud to admit to.
In time, you may come to see that having someone that would do this out of your life is a gift. I know, right now, with all the financial issues couled withthe pain, it maynot seem that this is possible.
I am 3.5 years out and, when I am lucid(or at least my version of lucid), I can see i wll be better off. I would not want to look back on my life from my deathbed and realize I wpent my life with someone who cared so little for me.
I think God was watching out for me and felt i had wastedenough of my life on this person.

I feel so badly for catgirl and others in the same sitch. If my WH were to end up with OW and begin a new life for himself, well, I'd have a hard time with that myself I'm sure. Right now, he's doing nothing. I filed for a D in June with the intention of letting it sit and it still is. I'd love to R my M but not with my WH the way he is now. He needs an exorcism....

Or, the oft referred to cranial/rectal extraction.

XWH moved out in June 2008 and rammed a divorce down my throat.

The divorce was my punishment for (1)standing up to him about his many girlfriends, and (2) finally withdrawing from him and staying completely away from him, when the antidepressants finally killed enough of the pain for to let me do that.

He never cared how upset I was about his girls as long as I was still around when he wanted me around - that's how Players roll - but he got mad as hell, moved out and filed when it all went silent and I just left him the hell alone.

Go figure.

I often feel that he didn't so much divorce me as much as he fired me. He just fired an insubordinate employee who wouldn't do what the boss ordered. I mean, that's what happens, right?

What am I still struggling with?

LIES.

The lies - including lies of omission by his saying nothing - which allow his family and friends and especially his workplace pals and bosses to fully blame me for the destruction. He's a fun, outgoing, very charming and persuasive guy. Gee, what could he possibly have done wrong? His ex-wife must be a classic b*tch who deserved to get dumped. Yeah, that must be it.

The injustice is an absolute outrage to me. Some wh*re or six is now living the life I thought I was working so hard to build for some 27 years.

And then there is the overwhelming sadness for the man he used to be. I struggle terribly with this whole mess because he really was a wonderful husband and father for a good ten years - before he became a Corporate Big Shot, before his Success and the groupies who always come crawling after any successful man absolutely ruined him on every level - ruined him as a husband, a father, a man and a human being.

It's like he got a hit of crack and overnight threw everything away to became a raving addict. Only it wasn't crack - it was Girls and Attention and endless amounts of Girl Attention.

There are too many good times for me to look back on without being either enraged by the waste and stupidity or overwhelmed with sadness at the loss and the loneliness.

At least I do have the kids around me. Those relationships have only gotten stronger.

The only thing that's better about him being gone is that he is no longer able to torment and punish me for standing up to him. His weapon of choice was a lot of very cruel and very deliberate passive-aggressive behaviour. There should be a special place in hell for people who do this.

I have every symptoms of PTSD now, especially the exaggerate startle reflex and the hyper, hyper, hypervigilance.

He is NEVER, EVER, EVER again going to rub his skanky girlfriends in my face. He did that for years before he moved out. He will NEVER, EVER, EVER do it again.

He will NEVER, EVER, EVER rub his filthy divorce in my face.

I have not seen him or spoken to him at all since he left. I don't know anything about what he does and I DON'T WANT TO KNOW. The kids understand this and it works out okay.

It's the only way I can get through the day, is to protect myself fully from his cruelty and selfishness and skanky sluts and filthy divorce that I did not want and did not deserve. Protecting myself and my children from this is all I can do.

So I do. And I come to MB trying to help some other folks if and when I can.

Great topic, tabby. Thank you.
Mulan

He sounds like a classic narcissist, Mulan. They can keep some of the stuff dormant/under wraps for a while. But, I'd bet, if you had the capability of finding out what he was doing that went undetected for the original good 10 years, you'd discover this man was always like this.
HIS WEIRDNESS WOULD HAVE DRIVEN YOU TO AN EARLY GRAVE.

I have been in Plan B for about a year and a half...with lots of anger and hurt. He still sees OW...I am the same in that I want them both to crash and burn, but I dont see that happening anytime soon...

And I get bitter about the fact that, I have no one to share my life with, I lost my best friend and obviously he lost nothing...I now do everything around the house, except he mows the lawn still...but I look around at my friends and they have husbands that love and appreciate them and what they do...

The thing that has been gettin me lately is that to my DS I feel like the bad guy...homework, getting him off to school, cleaning up his toys, tellin him its time for bed, time to come in from playing and take a shower, making healthy meals...while WH picks him up and gets to just have fun with him, eat at mcdonalds, stay up late, go to the store and buy any toy he wants, play video games...Its like one big party when he is with him and I just feel like I am a downer...

Yes I do lots of fun thing with him, but I dont want him eating a lot of junk, I dont want him up all hours of the night and I dont buy him everything he wants, I dont want him playing violent video games, I dont think that is good for a kid...I am the one who makes him eat his veggies, ya know what I mean? and daddy is the great one...I know I am being stupid, but I feel I just dont get appreciation from anybody...I would even just love it if my WH said..You know, you do a great job raisin our DS..Ya, right, that would be the day... Sorry for the rant, I guess i am just bitter...

Mulan,

I totally agree. The lies... ExH to this day has NEVER admitted he had an affair. While we were going through the D, he said they were just friends. Maybe if he apologized or at least acknowledged what he did, it might be a tad easier on me. Who knows?

And yes I'm sure, no I know, he has spun it that OW had no impact at all on our D. I was a b*tch of wife and our M was over a long time ago and then he just "met" her and that was it. (Even though he was living with her while we were still M'd, as he left home to "get his head together". Found out he moved her in 3 weeks after he left here).

I doubt he's admitted to many that he cheated on me. He justifies it by saying our M was over before we got D'd, so it was OK. ExH too is a charmer, well liked and respected at work. (he just got a promotion). So I'm sure not many blame him. There must have been a reason for him to leave me...b*tch of a wife....

And yes Mulan, the hardest part for me as well, is that I worked so hard to build our M for over 20 years and now some ho gets to reap those rewards. THAT is I think the hardest thing I am having to deal with. She got my life!!!

Catgirl

The wonderful thing about kids is eventually they grow up and truly remember what was important growing up. Although your perception is that WS is great person to DS - the reality is one day your DS will see what WS did to the family and will go through an angry phase towards WS. You have been doing Plan B a long time - do you have a timeline - how long do you plan to continue?

Gg

Still,

That is me to a tee as well. ExH is a hero in DS's eyes. He takes him for a few hours a week and is Disneyland Dad. They have a grand old time, while mean mommy makes DS do chores, homework etc.

I too am envious of people, strangers even, in the grocery store that I see shopping with their husbands etc. Envious of families when me and my kids go out to a park or whatever, seeing mom and dad and kids and knowing that it's only mom and kids here. Very hard to see a "happy family" somewhere and know that could have been us had ExH not cheated. I imagine it's hard for the kids to see that as well.

I too would like someone to pat me on the back once in awhile and appreciate what I do and say that I'm doing a good job with the kids or that I look good or whatever.

I do everything around the house, ExH doesn't help me with anything. I mean he has his own family now I really can't expect him too, but he knew we were having plumbing problems recently, ya think he could have offered to help. I mean if he hates me, that's fine, but his kids stil live in the house.

Oh it's so unfair...

Cat

gg615,

My IC tells me the same thing, that the kids will see what their father did to the family and realize it was me who was there for them.

As I said, DS still treats ExH as a hero, even though he knows he cheated etc. DD wants nothing to do with ExH, but she is older. ExH wants nothing to do with her as well as he knows she figured out the A a long time before I even did! She was the one who tipped me off believe it or not!

Cat

Yes, my IC told me that as they grow and mature they will ocassionally revisit the "sitch" and will be able to see it according to their new maturity level. It will affect them the rest of their lives.....

Yeah, I guess I was gonna plan B until April of next year, that will be the two year mark of my Plan B....I just dont know when I will be ready for the divorce cr@p....but I know Ill have to do it...Its like I am just settling down from this affair stuff and WH movin out and now I just dont even want to think about goin thru a divorce....

Very,

I always said it's the kids that will suffer forever. I know quite a few families where the parents D'd a long time ago and the kids are still messed up into adulthood.

The adults can somehow move on, but the kids will carry the pain and it affects them either consciously or subconsciously for the rest of their lives.

That was an issue when I filed for D as well. I felt so guilty that I was imposing that pain on my kids forever.

Cat

Yeah, Catgirl, but your not the one who really wanted the divorce ya know? Your Exh is the one that didnt give you another choice....

Add me to this thread. And yes, I have all of the same feelings that the rest of you have. Sadness, jealousy, bitterness, anger, and on and on. Everything I have worked so hard for during the last 36 years has just disappeared.

I've lurked here for years but never posted before as my marriage was long over and I didn't feel as if I had much to contribute.

But Catgirl I can soooo relate to your story. My husband left me for OW nearly 20 years ago and I STILL feel like you do. They've gone on to become multi millionaires living a wonderful life with first class travel to every point in the world you can imagine and I have to struggle along watching every penny I spend. We too had a comfortable life together. I really always thought the karma bus would come and run them over but it never has. At least I can sleep at night.

I wish I had known of MB way back then, I did everything wrong, handed him to her on a silver platter by not exposing, thinking it would drive him away (well d'uh, he went anyway) and totally enabling the whole disgusting affair. I didn't have one clue what to do it was such a shock. If I had known of MB then and practised the plan, I know I could have saved the marriage. Hindsight is 20/20!!!

I too have been on some dates but have never met anyone I really wanted to be with. I only started to Plan B him about 3 years ago (after finding this site) as he wanted to stay in touch as "friends", so although married to OW, kept in regular contact with me. Now of course I realise after being here that that was just to assuage his guilt from what he did. How stupid was I?

Everyone told me I deserved someone better but here I am 20 years on, still alone and getting older. It's not that bad but I thought I signed up to be married for life - too bad he didn't.

Pretty,

I'm so sorry you had to go through this so many years ago and it still is affecting your life today.

Funny, but I see myself in your shoes 20 years from now. I can't let go of the pain he caused me and am very jealous of the life he has...$$, family etc.

I too don't think the karma bus will ever make a stop at his house. Everyone told me the A wouldn't last they were too far apart in age etc. Well they M'd and now have a baby. Looks like the M isn't going anywhere.

ExW will stay M'd anyway, no matter how miserable he is this time. He's too proud to admit he would have messed up again! But from what some people have told me that have seen them out and about, they say they look extremely happy!

They say living well is the best revenge. I am trying to do that. Put on a happy face whenever I happen to see ExH. I truly think he has thought I moved on with someone else. If he only knew...

Why is it that a good person who does mostly everything right...goes to church, voluntees, honors wedding vows, etc. etc. always ends up with the short end of the stick, and then the person who does it all wrong, gets it all!

Something is definitley wrong with that picture.

Some day your son will grow up and thank you for being there for him, when his father abandoned him. It is hard to parent, especially when you have an irresponsible WAYWARD who just wants to be "liked." What a bum. My dad did the same thing to me as a kid and believe me, when I grew up and realized that he neglected me so badly, I did not remember him fondly at all. He was a horrible parent and while my mother had some serious issues, she always tried to do the right thing instead of being liked.

For some parents, it is more important to be liked than to be good parents. They are horrible parents.

Oh boy, I feel everything all of you feel! Sometimes it doesn't even make sense. I mean, I didn't have the greatest marriage anyway and I knew this even on d-day. Some people actually thought that this was a good thing for me because it gave me a free pass out of it. And in real life, I have lived well since he left. I have a lot more money than I did without him to throw it away on crap. I have taken more and better vacations in teh past 2 years than I did in the entire 17 years I was with him. I live in a much nicer house and I've bought a new car. Outwardly, I appear to have thrived.

But I still feel the same inside. And trust me, it doesn't make a lot of difference that my life is, at least materialistically, better than his. He traded my professional salary for her minimum wage but didn't adjust his wasteful lifestyle to accomodate it and is now in debt beyond his eyeballs. He can't afford to replace his old truck but it still costs him a fortune to keep it together enough to run. Though the materialistic stuff can sting, it's not the core of what gets you. It's the fact that he's living a life that HE chose for himself, yet I'm scrambling around trying to adapt to circumstances thrown at me.

So how do we really let go of this stuff? I mean really - if he walked back into my life today I'd tell him to shove off - I honestly don't want him back. So why does everything that happened STILL eat at me? How do I stop it??

Yeah, ML, I guess you are right...and I am not raising him to like me, per se...I am raising him to be a happy, healthy, God loving and moral human being.

Tabby, You know, we dont know if they are doing as good as we think they are, I guess...someone thinks they have a lot of money and seem happy on the outside, and someone whos WxH is poor and seems happy....we can live with no regrets...They have to live with that burden...and I am sure in some way they do, even if we dont outwardly see it...

I mean look at Pretty's Xwh, he tried to stay friends with her, so he does have guilt....

I feel it will always hurt, just like when someone you love dies..It will always be a part of us...

Did I sound convincing, cuz I dont even know if I beleive it myself?

For still and catgirl:

The greatest gift you can give your children, divorced or not, is to be a PARENT to them. The kids might complain about being made to go to school, do their homework and eat their vegetables, but deep down they know that you care enough about them to insist they do the right things and will stand up to them even if they throw a fit.

They know that you are looking out for them and give a damn about what they do, no matter what. This gives them a deep-down sense of love and security that they will never have from a Disneyland Dad. They know this, even if they are not able to articulate it yet.

And when they are older, they will look back and realize that you were the one who was there for them through good times and bad - not just in the good times, like dear old Disneyland Dad who can't be bothered with the icky "do your homework" stuff and only shows up for the fun stuff. Even kids know a fair-weather friend when they see one.

It's the minute-by-minute, hour-by-hour, day-by-day stuff that makes a parent. Don't ever feel bad about standing up to your kids and insisting they do the right things. Don't ever be put off by any tantrums or sulking. That's what kids do. Your payoff will come later and you will be very, very, very glad you hung in there and were a PARENT to your children when they desperately needed one.
Mulan

Thanks, Mulan, I needed to hear that right now...

A few more thoughts:

A while back I saw an episode of *Intervention*, the A&E cable show that looks at the lives of drug addicts and alcoholics and then helps a family stage an intervention, where the addict is told in no uncertain terms that they must leave NOW for a treatment program or they will no longer be allowed in the home or supported in any way.

At one point, with the very emotional family gathered together, the counselor said something like, "Do you think (addict) is happy? Or do you think they are suffering?"

The family was baffled and said, "Well, he must be suffering. He looks horrible. His life is a complete mess."

And the counselor said, "No, he's not suffering nearly as much as you might think. Whenever there is pain in his life, he has the luxury of using (his drug) and escaping the pain and suffering. YOU are the ones who are suffering, since you are not using and you have to experience every minute of the pain every day."

It seems to me that the WS who have left us behind are still "using" and so are escaping any suffering they might have. If there is any sort of pain or guilt, they'll just go find a new affair partner, or hit the wine bottle, or spend a few days devouring porn and sitting in strip bars, or all of the above. This masks their pain and they can keep going and tell themselves and the world that they are happy.

The rest of us are left picking up the pieces of our lives like shards of broken glass and are constantly getting our fingers cut. As the counselor said, we are not using and we get the pain full force every day.

So, is your WS/XWS really as happy and free of guilt as they seem, or are they just continuing to use?

My fingers get cut every day, but at least I am not using.
Mulan

Here's what I struggle to deal with....our M was not good for probably 10+ years. My WH says he "tried" to be emotionally intimate w/me sometime in the beginning and I "rebuffed" him. That may very well have happened, but I don't recall it and he didn't do anything more to bring it to my attention. He says he just gave up and said "oh well this is all it will ever be". My downfall was that I didn't have any idea how to have a healthy relationship nor did he for that matter. So, he proceeded to become emotionally if not physically involved with another female co-worker and someone that he also brought into our lives, along with her H and child, as "friends" (very same senerio as this A). At that point, there was no chance of any emotional intimacy. I was shut out. I subconsciously knew this but had no idea how to handle it so I proceeded to handle it very badly. I pushed, he withdrew. I wanted a real M but I didn't know how to get one at that point. I told him I was not happy and that I wanted to do MC to change things and he brushed me off. I see now that he did this because he was getting what he needed and didn't see the reason to bother with trying to fix us. It would have been too much trouble. Pure selfishness! I, in the meantime, lived in misery. I just kept hoping something would change but I didn't know it needed to be me. I wanted him to DO something and oh he did something alright. We had moved away from OW#1 so he didn't have the same access to her so he just replaced her with another convenient POSOW. So again I was left with no chance.....

How do I deal with anger toward myself regarding all the years I let go by? I had no boundaries and it resulted in me wasting a big portion of my life!

Having said all this I can still say that I want to be in love with my H again (yes we were in the beginning...as dysfunctional as it might has been). I believe he can be in love with me again as well. I'd prefer to have that with him and not someone new. I don't feel this way because it would be easier (ha ha we know that's not true!) but because I still have love for him and love for our family as a whole. But, unless he comes out of his fog, and his is "extra" thick, this will never happen.

So, I'm living in limbo...and trying to not focus on the fact that I'm living in limbo. And trying to come to terms with how I feel about all the above....

Thank Mulan....I didn't see your post before I posted mine. That explains EXACTLY what I lived.

And here I am. I'm the betrayed yet felt guilt beyond belief for leaving and going plan D. I also see the families in the park/stores. I never wanted to be divorced. I was the Disney Land dad, but I was not the one who cheated(inititally, I know). Its really screwed up on my side. I have all the new cars, nice house, boat, RV, land, dirt bike, etc. My friends think I have it made, yet I'm MBing trying to put it all back together, cuz I love my family. Now, fwxw just said she lost her mind. Can't even blameshift or make "excuses" for the A. Said she only ever loved me. It might sound good to get that option(wayward begging for your return), but its still difficult to give up my "new life"...DUDE

Vst, I had the same sort of thing slowly happen in my M, I had Depression and didnt deal with it (didnt know) and WH got his needs from a coworker (who is still OW)..I struggle with this too....I also wasnt happy...

But you know how I think of it....Yeah I screwed up my M, but so did he...He didnt tell me that he was gonna leave if things didnt change, He just found someone else and lied and cheated until I accidentally found out...

My needs were not being met either, but I didnt cheat, didnt even think about it...We were together for a long time before my depression got this bad, he knew it wasnt the same old me and did nothing to salvage our M....We had a beautiful little boy, that I had a very hard time taking care of...he was too busy cheating to notice...

What I am trying to say is that, yeah we screwed up our M...but so did they...and we never stopped loving them...we never abandoned them for another person by lying and cheating....I want to see these people that have been together for so long and have a perfect relationship, if there is such thing it is because they work at it, not abandoned ship when things get hard...

Thanks Still, I was depressed too during that time. I'm sure he just came to believe that how I acted was just how I was and not a response to what was going on. Did he expect me to be kind and loving while he was ripping my heart out? It's like they expect something from us that we cannot possibly give them. But, I knew nothing about Plan A either so that could have been a big help....maybe I could have won him back but I had no idea how. When I caught a "moment" between he and OW and said something about it, he treated me like I was this HORRIBLE person! The emotional abuse I endured.....OMG.

Yup, the more I was pushed away the more i retreated, in a way I think he purposely did this to continue his A...didnt care at all that he was feeding my Depression...WH said to my mother after that she should have done something to help me, it wasnt his responsibility.....Yeah, I was only home taking care of our DS...but my mother who didnt live here should have known and helped me with my depression...

Instead of talking to me about my depression, he talked to OW every day at work about me...and she told him that he deserved better than me...It just seems like a bad mix of a lot of things, one thing was an uncaring selfish spouse...God, at least help me a little, before you dump my sorry a$$...I would have done that for him.

Its like the worse they know that they treated us, the worse they keep on treating us... like.. they have to know how bad they are acting but there is no turning back now, so it just keeps goin more and more downhill...

Mulan,

As the parent of an addict, you are so, so right. DD just drifted through life in a drug high. Half the time I don't even think she knew where she was or even cared. Life is definitely a lot harder for her now which is why I am doubtful that she will make it long term. Waywards are the same - it's easier to continue on the path than do the hard work to change things.

VST - You described my M too. I think you described a lot of marriages. Kids, work, bills, etc. tend to allow both to get into an auto pilot state of being and each just takes the other for granted. I know that I am guilty of that. But I also didn't know how to have a great marriage until it ended and I found MB. I found it too late in the game.

How do we let go? I don't know. Sometimes I think that an apology or some display of remorse will set me free, but I don't know.

It was a vicious circle.......

Yes. A little something more than "I'm sorry you got hurt".

You, know...very shortly after Dday I got a beautiful apology letter from WH. Taking full responsibilty for everything, it did help a little at the time...but after that I never saw any sign of that remorseful WH again...

So, Chai, i do think you are right about it being to hard to do the right thing...They would not be able to carry on with affair, that is why a lot of them probably, dont see their kids or families, they know they acted like jerks and they just dont want to face the truth...is easier to keep going the way they are, no work has to be done that way...

Just like drug addicts, they have no drug problem....because if they admit that they do, they have to do the work to fix it....

Just like my WH loves to tell everyone that he doesnt even see OW anymore, but he always gets caught with her....

I guess the point here, especially for any still-married BS, is this:

Divorce will not solve your problems. Divorce will not make you happy. The best it can do is stop an emotionally abusive WS from rubbing an affair in your face every day, and that's worth something. But Divorce will not make the affair go away.

Even with Divorce and an XWS that you never see or hear from (as in my case), there is still a very long haul ahead of you and you will still have tremendous pain and resentment and loneliness and loss. And in most cases you have to be prepared for the fact that most people will blame YOU for the breakup, even if they know full well the WS was cheating. They'll just assume poor poor WS had a good reason and you must have deserved to be cheated on and divorced.

Be prepared.

Divorce is pretty much the only answer in some cases, but you must be prepared for what it will bring - which isn't much, as far as making you feel better.

It's like Buckaroo Banzai said: "Wherever you go, there you are." And that is true for the WS/XWS as well.

Mulan
P.S. Extra points if you know who Buckaroo Banzai is.

Or at least a little something more than "I'm sorry I got caught."

Isn't that the truth? My problems multiplied as did my unhappiness.

I'm sure waywards see it differently.

Great thread, Tabby! But I often find you talk a lot of sense!


I agree with so much of what people have said especially the bit about lies. But I don't think we should hope/expect/believe that an apology will help us in any way towards personal recovery. IMO, if you do then you are still allowing the WS to hold the key to your life. It's normal for two people who are married to both hold to a large extent the key to the other's happiness but when your spouse betrays you through infidelity and you make the decision to break from him/her then you should take that key back just as you would the key to the house. In so far as is possible then the WS should have no impact on your life.
My WH has never shown any remorse or regret and I've come around to the idea that he never will but now I don't care. That's his problem. I tell myself that the only life worth living is one lived honestly with your head held high. He can't do that and I refuse to be dragged in any way into his scummy life or to seek his imprimatur on any aspect of my life. Minimum contact is great for me even if it's not always easy because of the children.
I think people should try to not know what's going on in the WS's life. I know it's tempting but I think I would ask family and friends to stop talking about him/her, to stop giving you 'news' (I say this just after a long chat about WH with a friend) and cut all direct contact down to the absolute minimum with the shortest possible factual emails.
I also still believe that most people out there are good and kind (and many people on MB have reinforced that belief) and just because this particular man turned out to be intensely selfish and untrustworthy, doesn't mean all others will.

Oh do tell, tully. He's broken out in warts all over his genitals and lost all his hair and teeth?

Yeah, you are right Tully....But it is just easier said than done....

You know sometimes I wonder if the waywards think they will be happier after the D....I am sure they find out it doesnt do it for them either...

Still,

I think absolutely that every wayward believes they will be happier after a D. They think that they will be happier with the OP, but the stats say differently.

There was a link around here at one time to an article called 31 Reasons to End an Affair (not sure where it is anymore) but I remember number 1 was: Your baggage always follows you wherever you go (or something to that effect). It had a great explanation as to why As don't solve your problems.

If anyone remembers it, can you post the link?

Found it! (Gotta love Google...)

http://canvaschurch.net/resources/31_reasons.pdf

Thanks Tully! I guess that means the filter between my head and my mouth (or in this case my finger) is working!

I like this analogy and maybe this is a lot of what my problem is. With each incidence in which I have to deal with WXH, I feel more and more "annoyed". That's not the right word, but I'm not sure how else to express it. But each new issue represents another little hold he's got on that "key". I've got to get it back somehow.

Sometimes it's not enough to just take back the key. Sometimes you gotta change the locks!
Mulan

Tabby,

I so agree with you in that ExH chose this life, he left, he wanted out. I didn't. But now I have to scramble as you say, to get on with my life somehow and he aready has, because it was what he wanted all along!



Cat

Mulan,

DS is in IC and the IC shared something with me last week. She said that they were talking about people in general, and she asked him who his hero was and why. DS said ME!!! And he said it was because I was always there for him.

So yes, there are times I wish DS would see ExH for the POS he is, and for what he did to our family, instead of seeing him as super Dad, but maybe deep inside he knows...

Also I liked your thoughts about the intervention, but I'm not sure if it even applies to ExH. I would imagine the thrill is over of the affair, he married OW and now they have a baby, so how could he still keep getting the "fix"? I think he likes his new life and doesn't even look back at what he left.

Cat

There you go, catgirl. Your DS is one smart boy. And it's exactly as he said: You are always there for him, whether it's having fun or "do your homework". Always means always.

As your ExH: He is still living with his drug, and as long as he focuses on that he can remain blind to the damage he left in his wake. But drugs do wear off, and things may not be as happy there as you think. But surely you don't really want to know!
Mulan

Very,

I too look at these last 2 yrs. since my D as a waste. I have wasted those years on thinking/obsessing etc. about ExH. For what? Do you think he's doing the same for me? No! He has a new life with OW and baby. So why do I do it? My IC keeps telling me to use all that energy I spend on him, on me!

I guess, and I am VERY ashamed to say this, is that I still somehow hope he will come back. No not that same person he is now, but realize what he did and want to make it right.

I guess I still want him and that is why I have such a hard time dating as I am still hooked on him.

Right before the D, I wrote him a VERY long letter. Poured my heart out about a ton of stuff. I told him it wasn't too late to stop the D. He said it was a hard read, very emotional for him. But did that persuade him to come back to me? Nope!

Still even after the D I held out hope. People do reconcile after a D I thought. Then he M'd the OW and my hope faded, but still it was there. Now they have a baby and my hope is pretty much gone. Even if he did leave her someday to come back to me, he would forever be tied to her because of their child.

I kills me that he had a baby with her. I so wanted more kids and he told me no, he was too old to have more. That was about 6 years ago. Well like he's not older now? It doesn't seem real that he had a baby with another woman. At one time he was my husband, How could he just go love someone else and have a baby with them?

I know this sounds crazy but those are my twisted feelings...

So why do I do this to myself? Why do I still pine for someone who hurt me so?

I wish I knew...

Cat

Still,

Right after my Dad passed, I went into depression. I knew things weren't right with me, lost interest in alot of stuff especially taking care of the house, but I didn't want to go on meds, even though the Dr. recommended them. Heck I wasn't crazy!

Well I do think that contributed alot to the demise of my M. ExH found a co worker who was having issues with her H as well, and they commisurated together. One thing lead to another and we all know how it turned out.

I wish I would have listened to my Dr. and went on the AD's. Maybe I wouldn't be here today...

Cat

Mulan,

You are 100% right. Divorce didn't solve ANYTHING! It made me sad, broke, insecure, etc, etc. I know ExH spun it to others, so I was the bad guy and he had no choice but to leave to be happy.

I guess I filed because I knew ExH wasn't/didn't want to come back, and I couldn't stand the fact that he was living with OW, taking her places, while he was still M'd to me.

I think the D made it easier for him to justify it all to others.

Cat

I quickly read the 31 reasons but I'm not so sure they apply to someone who M's the OW.

The stats said the A would end. Well it didn't. I think ExH is happier since he left me. Even though he has NEVER admitted he was in an A. Of course he will never tell me if he is unhappy either.

Cat

Oh Mulan,

But I DO want to know if he is unhappy or not. That would make me VERY happy to know he is living a life of h#ll!

Cat

Catgirl, you are definitely giving your WXH too much power over your life!! Did you ever do a Plan B? Do you contact him now?

I know as messed up as I am in my own head I'm the last person who should give you advise. But honestly, breaking contact with my WXH did more to help me than any other single thing I've done so far. I actually wish I did a proper Plan B that included a letter and an IM. Not that there are any conditions I would take him back again, but just so that there would be a system in place to ensure we had no contact. Unfortunately, most of the circumstances in which we did have contact would have been unavoidable anyway - DS's wedding and grad for example. But it would have prevented some of the cruel things that he's done to me.

I don't think of the last 2 1/2 years as nearly as much of a waste as the 17 years I was still with WXH. During that time, I thought I was happily married. I thought I was loved. I thought I had a place in a family. It was all a lie. I don't know when it began being a lie and I never will. For all I know, the entire thing was a farce and he just used me all that time. I can never remenisce about anything during that time, including my own DS's childhood, without thinking about him too. He stole and made a mockery of the bulk of my adult life, my son's childhood and every hope and dream I ever had during that time. THAT's where the waste was.

The last 2 1/2 years? I've been on 3 Carribean vacations, one Florida vacation and one Virginia vacation and I'm leaving to go on another Carribean cruise tomorrow. I live better and have more financial security than I ever had. And I do the things I want without having to worry about what he thinks about it. To say these were a waste? Heck - these have been the best years of my life!!!

That's the whole funny thing about it is that it's not what's happening on the outside that's the problem. It's all on the inside for me.

Cat,

All marriages have problems. Especially marriages that result from infidelity. Don't you think that they might have some trust issues, knowing full-well that they were willing to commit adultery once. Why not again? When a marriage gets hard they bailed and found a replacement. That is what they know I wonder how sound they really sleep.

If you can bring yourself to date a little it might distract you from thinking about your ex. Think hard on this: considering how he treated you and your family do you think he deserves all the time you have invested thinking about him? The answer is he doesn't deserve another second of you precious time.

Tabby,

I did a so-so plan B. I do not have contact at all with ExH unless it is for DS. I have no one to act as an IM so that is not an option.

DS has been ill lately so I've had to see ExH at ER visits, Drs. etc. as he chooses to attend.

I do think, and I know this is shallow, but if I had more $$ things would be better for me. I then could do the things I wanted and not have to obsess about all the things ExH and OW are doing with their $$. House/car have had a lot of problems and alot of $$ has gone to that lately.

Cat

Comfortably,

You said EXACTLY what my IC has been saying to me for months! I'm just not sure why I can't get past that and believe it myself.

~ Is it because I was comfortable with ExH and don't want to start again?

~ Is it because I don't think I can get another man?

~ Is it because I am jealous that OW has what was mine and I can't get past that to seek another man?

I don't know, I wish I did...

Cat

Cat,

I don't know why exactly but I can guess. You were hurt by a man and you are probably leary of opening yourself up to that kind of pain. It is a normal reaction. But, it isn't a way to spend your life. You must at some point risk something to get something in return.

There is a man out there that will be overjoyed to have you in his life. You just need to look around a bit. Baby steps.

Comf,

Yeah I know I have to start. I mean it's been over 2 years now. I definitetly don't want to be alone in my later years of life. Guess I'm too picky, but as you said I need to start somewhere.

As far as ExH and OW having issues in their M and not trusting, I'm not sure,.

However, ExH has never admitted the A, so I do think that they both justisfy what they did in that they were in dead end M's anyway, so they started again and now that they are happy, have a new baby, there would be no reason to cheat on each other...

Cat

{{{{Cat}}}}}, I understand exactly how you feel. But maybe if our WS(ex) werent so selfish we wouldnt be here either, ya know? We cannot blame ourselves....I guess maybe it takes us a long time because, for me, I know that I felt that this was it for life, thick or thin. In my mind I never imagined being with anyone else....I am a very loyal person...So I guess it just takes us a long time to get over it, if we ever do...

It just seems that all the BS's here are extremely loyal, loving and caring people...If we werent we would just have dumped their sorry butts and soon as we found out about A. We just dont throw people away that easily...unforutunately most of us didnt choose spouses that had that same integrity...So it will probably be something I feel that we may carry forever, unfortunately...Maybe if we open our hearts again someday that will help, find someone else to be loyal to, besides someone who didnt appreciate what they had in us....

But maybe the reason you havent seriously dated yet is because you are really not ready yet, and I think that is fine...I am gonna take as long as I need, I was debating it recently...but I dont want to get serious with someone until I have gotten that jerk of a WH out of my system, because it wont be fair to the person I am dating...Just take the time you need to grieve your M, some of us need longer I guess....

But eventually, Cat, someone does deserve that loyal, caring and loving person you are...Its not fair to keep that to yourself...

"But eventually, Cat, someone does deserve that loyal, caring and loving person you are...Its not fair to keep that to yourself..."

I couldn't have said it better. It goes for you too Still if you happen to divorce.

You both are going to make someone extremely happy when you find them. And when you are ready.

I do think that it would possibly do you a word of good Cat to go on some dates. Make them non-romantic at first. See a movie. Get a coffee. Go to the park and feed the ducks. Meet someone at the gym an have a guy there show you how to use the equipment (even if you already know how). Guys love to feel useful. But if your not ready yet realize that you probably will be eventually.

It can also help to know that you are a loycal, caring and loving person all by yourself! You don't need a man around to be as wonderful as you are! A relationship isn't the only worthwhile achievement in life!

Very true Tabby.

By the way, I meant loyal, not lo-cal or whatever it was I put there. We had a bake sale at work today and I think my subconscience is trying to tell me something.

Thanks all,

I know I have to go out. My IC tells me that all the time. But I think I have finally realized something as to why, and it was what Still posted a bit earlier...

When I married, I married for life. As Still said, thick or thin. Never in a million years would I have thought this would happen to me. I was there for him through it all and I wanted to be his only wife, as I thought he would be my only husband.

I bared my soul to him, told him stuff no one else knows, yet he betrayed me. And who knows, maybe even betrayed me by telling others what I told him.

I think I can't move on because I just can't imagine myself loving or being or even having sex with anyone else.

He was supposed to be the one and only.

I guess that it why it hurts so much to know that obviously he didn't feel the same way if he can fall in love and marry and have a kid with someone else so quickly.

Cat

I am still in Plan A even though we are separated, I haven't given up on my marriage yet, having said that - my husband is from Ireland and I am German - I came to Ireland 10 years ago and basically every memory I made in this country (Ireland),
I made with him - it would not be enough to move town here or anything to escape the memories - for me Ireland and my husband are one and the same thing if you know what I mean. Every bar, rugby match, football jersey i.e. is a reminder of him. I also can't imagine ever being with someone else and i.e. meeting WH in a bar and not loving him anymore. It actually takes my breath away just thinking about it... and I can't make a fresh start ever again in a different country like 10 years ago because of my kids - if I wouldn't have the kids I would have left Ireland already and would now work in a Call Canter in Spain.

I like to think that if I ever date again that it might be with a person I know already - dating a stranger is the worst thing I can imagine right now.

IMHO, it's cognitive dissonance. I'd say most people going through this suffer from it. It's when two contradictory ideas or beliefs are held by one person.

For a simple example, I would imagine most people hold the general belief that life is fair. Then they get cheated on. Which we have clearly established as "not fair." Now the person has cognitive dissonance. They hold the belief that life is fair, while simultaneously having evidence that life is not fair.

This creates anxiety until such time as they conclude one of those beliefs to be false. (In this example, they must conclude either life is not fair, or that it was fair that they got cheated on.)

Now in that case, most people assume that it is easy to just accept life is not fair and move on. But it's not that simple. It's not simple because life being "fair" is usually a "bedrock" type of belief on which so many people base a lot of their values and actions on. (i.e. I work hard because in a fair world, I will be rewarded, I follow the rules, because I believe in being fair, I interact with others believing life is fair, etc., etc.)

So I imagine, (while they don't really know they are doing it), most people going through this can't conclude life is not fair (since it would disrupt so many other beliefs) and therefore, choose to mull over all the details of this situation over and over looking for the "fairness" in it. If they can find a just, or logical, or understandable sequence that prooves to them that the betrayal was fair, then they can let it go. They will have chosen one belief over the other and the cognitive dissonance will be gone.

Now, your two conflicting ideas may not be the one I used in the example. Maybe you think your a good judge of people and now have evidence you aren't. Maybe you believe your WH is deep down a good person, but you have evidence that he isn't. Who knows, but I would guess that you do have some conflicting beliefs that cause this to still eat at you. Figuring those out is probably a good start to stopping this.

Just my 2 cents.

First thanks Tabby -- great topic..

BS that don't recover their M.

That is me.

I feel like I have been on a train that I know was crashing and I still could not get off.

This is the place where I vent, cry, survive. Most family and friends think I have "just moved on". If you don't go through it -- no one really understands. Have you heard these lines...

Get rid of him -- who needs that?

I wish I could get rid of my H? (Why do people think we WANT THIS?)

You could never trust him again

You could do better

I have a "friend" for you.

And the list goes on.

After we moved away from my family 1900 miles (I was in hometown I grew up in), 2 years later - XH chooses to have A. What hurts the most is that XH chose the OW after less than 2 months of A. He actually said if DD was going to college you would not even really care.

This last 16 months have been a blur.
6/08 - A begins
7/08 - ILYBNILWY
10/08 - moves to own Apt
1/09 - serves me D papers
6/09 - moves in with OW
To date - judgement made waiting to sign final D.

This is after 22 yr M. This man was ethical, honest, recovered alcoholic, good Dad.

He is now a drunk, blames everything on me, financially broke, D16 refuses to see him, D29 stopped talking to him after Father's Day.

He wanted to be happy, he did not want to be lonely, he chased the fantasy.

Heard today that he just picked up 4 bottles of Peach Schnaps to keep fueling that fantasy.

I still love the man he was. I feel like a M single person. I have been asked on a date and someone else is interested in me at work (he actually works with my XH). I feel nothing. I have no desire to put myself out there. My D16 has been through enough without her Mom going over the deep end on the dating parade. She needs one stable parent in her life. I have nothing else to give to anyone.

Cat, Chia, Mulan, - all of you. I understand.

How can you give your heart to someone else when it is stone? I know some people here are so done and would never go back. I still love my H. I have never wavered from that.

I fill my time with trying to be a good Mom, going to the gym, seeing a few friends and not too much else. I am in limbo. I no longer know where I belong. I know deep down I am waiting -- for something that might never happen. For now that has to be enough.

Me too

What I should have added is that I have turned all of this over to God. I struggle sometimes with this but I know I didn't cause this, I can't change it or control it.

Hope,

Good post. Describes me too. I thought that I was doing OK, but after the final judgement came down I realized I was not. That old familiar empty feeling is back with a vengeance.

Funny, I never got the ILYBINILWY speech. My WH was the ultimate cake eater. I truly believe he wanted to do both forever. I was the one who had enough and couldn't deal with the continued contact and lying, so I do tend to blame myself a lot. If only I had hung on longer, not LBd as much, yada, yada, yada.

Anyway, my judgement is in and I will be D'd in a week or two. It's still seems like a nightmare....

WH wanted a fresh start in July - wanted to forget about everything and look forward together - he never admitted any wrongdoing - and I couldn't handle it and pushed him away again - you know how many times a day I blame myself for that? he said to me I would regret it and he is correct - I do - even though it was the right thing to do.

I think what I am struggling most beside him being gone is that all of my memories have been destroyed too - because he never admitted any wrongdoing, in my head I am picturing the worst case scenario - he said once in the heat of an argument that I forced him to marry me - even though I know rationally it's not true it hurts so much you have no idea.
My husband has a secret email account where I am trying to guess the password for a while now - part of me really wants to see it, part of me doesn't as I think it will verify my worst expectations.

A brief thought on whether or not "Life Is Fair":

A character on the old *Babylon 5* TV show was once heard to say this:

"People often lament that life is not fair, but I am quite glad that it is not. If life *were* fair, it would mean that we actually deserve all the dreadful things that happen to us. And so, I, for one, take great comfort in the general unfairness of the universe."

Me, too.
Mulan

Good point, Mulan..

Hope,

I could have written that post. You said what I feel... I feel like a M'd single person.

I still feel M'd to ExH, like it's all a dream and he'll come back to me someday. I was with him 20+ years, why would he throw all that away?

I need to get a grip and figure out why I still torture myself that way. He has moved on, why can't I? As stupid as this sounds, evn though he has M'd OW, just had a baby with her, I still love him. Evne though he has caused me and my kids so much pain, I still love him. How sick is that?!! I too am waiting for something that I'm sure will never happen.


Like you I don't even have the desire to put myself out there, but know I need to as I don't want to spend the rest of my life alone. The kids are growing up. But I just feel nothing...

Cat

Its not crazy or stupid to still love them ...I still love my WH, I wish every day that I didnt...Do you think maybe it helps them that they know we are not with anybody else...IDK, I dont think my WH cares but sometimes I wonder if he saw me happy with someone else that maybe he would really feel the loss of me, maybe it would sting a little, ya know?

I am not sayin to find someone else, Im just sayin that at the point when we do, maybe that is when they really feel the loss...IDK...

Still,

I thought that too, that maybe once he realized that I was with someone else and another man was around my DS, he wouldn't like it. But I doubt at this point he cares. As I said he has a new family now, plus I am pretty sure he thinks I am seeing someone.

I just casually dropped hints along the way over these last few months to make him think I was with someone. Childish I know, but it made me feel good at the time...

Not childish at all, I dont blame you. We just gotta hang in there, Cat, I am positive there is good stuff in the future for us...There has gotta be...

Yeah I hope so. I guess I just feel sorry for myself in that ExH did all this to me, I am living a life of h#ll and he is having the life he wants. Very envious right now...

I couldn't agree more.

This thread is a phenomenal idea and the posts here have been equally excellent. The fatigue with being "blamed", emotional roller-coastering, hidden rage, desire for "justice", and slowness of recovery from such hurt and betrayal, described here ARE SENTIMENTS I KNOW FULL WELL TOO.

I'm sure that virtually all xBSs, especially those who never received any real 'closure', admission, acknowledgement, contrition, or repentance from their xWSs, experience ALL OF THESE THINGS and sadly WE OFTEN HAVE TO DO IT FOR YEARS.

All of us are in the same boat on this stuff...cold comfort, I know.

My thought is that I love the H I thought he was, the person I thought he was or wanted him to be. But if he were to come back to me like he is now, I wouldn't want him at all.....

Yeah ExH now, isn't who I M'd that's for sure...

Yup, the H I thought I had would never ever had treated his little boy the way he did...I never new he had it in him to be so selfish, I just dont know what happend...maybe it was the company he was keepin (as in OW)

Totally agree. ExH has disowned DD. Hasn't talked to her in a few years now...

Very sad...

In fact, the thought of him popping up and saying he now wants to work on the M scares the crap out of me! Life is peaceful right now. I feel for those living with WS's.....I did my time and it sucked big time!

Now, if he wants to become a man of integrity and upstanding character, that is a different story.

wow Cat....thank stinks. How old is your DD?

18

Mulan,

Swap the genders and you have perfectly described how I legitimately feel about my xWW's transformation and its effect on her (former) friends, family, marriage, husband, and its wasteful self-destruction as well.

It is almost indescribable and unfathomable.

Thanks again, Tabby, for this great thread idea.

Yeah thanks Tabby, this gives me an outlet to vent...

Not that I couldn't on other threads, but this thread seems easier for me...

Cat

wow....I just cannot imagine being that selfish....and wayward.

Yeah ExH has missed alot of her life. Has had no contact with DD whatsoever...

And in return, DD has disowned him as well. Sad all around...

Hopefully he'll realize what he did someday.

Cat

Well, I hope she is as OK as she can be....

I guess you all are like me....you KNOW there is a decent human being inside them somewhere.....they have the capacity to be a person with integrity, etc. That is where my hope comes from. But, sadly, they may continue down the "wide" path and never enter the narrow gate.

This was in my devotion today:

There is nothing that enters
a man from outside which can defile him;
but the things which come out of him,
those are the things that defile a man.
( Mark 7:15 *NKJV )

Those Divorce Care Daily Emails are helpful.

Cat, You really think he is gonna be happy in his new marriage...first of all he left you and your DD, what would stop him from doin it again...If I was his new wife, I would not be too keen on the fact that he does not have a relationship with the daughter he already has...

My D16 has not spoken to XH. Her choice. She wants the man he was not for what he settled for. She was her father's daughter and he taught her well. She is ethical, has morals and is confident. Everything he is not now. Last time she saw him was May-- her confirmation. He was not in one picture.

He is missing a great life with us for a bottle and a piece of plastic trash.

To me it just proves how far off the deep end these waywards go...its not just BS that they dump...then they just get married to do it all over again, ughhh its just mind boggling...

Yeah, they're running from themselves only they haven't figured out that wherever they go, there they are....

I think if ExH wasn't happy he would have never gotten M'd to her and had a baby! He was ADAMANT with me that we were not to have anymore kids. So why does he have one with her?

Maybe she gave him an ultimatim. I heard he needs her paycheck to keep up his lifestyle, so maybe he did it to keep her happy, but I also heard now, that she's not going back to work after having the baby. So who knows what the reason was? But I didn't think ExH was that much of a pushover that OW has that much control over him.

OW does not like DD. They are only 11 years apart! I think she saw ExH's and DD's relationship as a threat to her in some way. I truly think she's happy they have no relationship. And I think that is probably why she wanted "their" own child. So he could pay attention to that one and not the kids he already has.

As far as him ever leaving her, I really doubt he will. He has way too much pride to show anyone that he screwed up again!

Hopefully since she left her H for mine, she'll be the one to cheat again and leave him. As I said they are 17 yrs. apart, so ExH will be getting old. But as I have also said in previous posts, she wanted my H because he has $$, so I doubt she will leave him anytime soon.

Cat

Cat, I really dont forsee this marriage lasting in the future, really....It doesnt sound like a situation he wanted and she is not a good person if she doesnt want him to have a relationship w DD...She will get bored with your Ex and move on....I am sure of it...I do give them a couple of more years because of baby, but thats it. Its doomed, Cat, trust me...

I'm sure there is an underlying sickness to the whole relationship....when it's not based on truth, the undercurrent is sick. It's not all peaches 'n cream. I bet there's plenty of discontentment there.

They think it was us who made them unhappy and we were good peeps...now their startin over with people who are not good and they think that that is gonna make them happy....Im sorry but if they were not happy with us, their not gonna be happy with cheaters who manipulate, lie and are obviously selfish....

Its just a matter of time before they figure out that it wasnt us it was them....now whether they ever admit that or not is another question...

I try to be a good person and not wish anyone ill will. But I have to say that is all I want is for his M to fail. I will of course feel bad that another child (theirs) is a victim to D, but I just want him to get his. I want him to feel the pain I've been going through all of these years now.

But again there's the pride thing. Sometimes I think he just got M'd and had a baby with her to prove to everyone...see we really are soulmates, it just wasn't an A after all.

His pride will keep him there, of course if she leaves first, then that's another story.

In a twisted way, I feel great pride getting his alimony check every month. I know that she must be pissed that all of that money could be going to her and her wants. She likes really nice things and VERY expensive things, so I'm sure this check he cuts me every month would come in handy for her...

Cat

Yes, his pride will end up bein the only thing keepin him there, but I highly doubt he will be happy....And I am positive that alimony check kills her, ahhhhh, isnt it great...

I'm really surprised she even stayed with him. She knew he'd be paying me alimony and how much, as they were living together through our whole D.

ExH cries poverty every chance he gets. But it doesn't stop him from going on vacations or getting new cars. Matter of fact I have to haul him back to court for not paying me for some stuff.

Yeah that is one thing that makes me happy these days, is knowing she probably hates seeing that withdrawal from his account every month, knowing that $$ could be buying her more designer stuff.

Cat

This hit home for me.

SOMETHING from xWW would have been helpful for closure. SOMETHING honest and sincere. Something like a genuine acknowledgement of the pain caused (rather than all the scapegoating & demonizing of me than continues to this day), a REAL apology, some believeable contrition, and an admission of her responsibility.

All I ever received is:
"I'm sorry you are hurt"
"I'm sorry for so many things"
"I'm sure I will love you for years to come"
"I do hope that you find happiness like I have found"
"I ask for your forgiveness" (never saying of course FOR WHAT)
"I think of you and your family and pray for peace in your lives"

...all just designed to assuage her own guilt w/o ever having to look in the mirror and own her lies, manipulations, abuse, and betrayals.

SDCWMan,

I never got any of those. Never one I'm sorry for anything!

I think maybe that could have helped me with closure. I still have questions on alot of things, but won't ask now, too much time has passed.

When I did ask him however how he could just throw away 20 years, he told me he saw it as a new chapter in his life unfolding, and not that he would forget those 20 years, but now more happier years were ahead of him...

Cat

Now if we could be friends with them, that would really get the OW panties in a bunch....but emotionally I know we cant, for our own sake....

My BIL did the same thing to his ExW a few years befor my WH cheated on me...BIL left his W for OW, and after they divorced ExSIL stayed friends with BIL...

Now from the other side, the OW was younger and more attractive than BIL's ExW...but she hated that BIL was still friends with his ExW, she always accused him of still bein in love with her, and actually she thought he was cheating with her....OW was a royal Biotch....

So I am sure that they have fights over your alimony, cat. At least have that bit of satisfaction...

That reminds me a few angry/snotty goodies I heard from xWW when she was finally OUT-ED:
"Who ratted me out!?!?"
"You can believe whatever you want to believe!"
"What? You having me followed?"

Not one word of remorse or even a "I should have told you"

Yeah, because then they would have to admit they royally screwed up and they cant do that....its like they will implode or something if they do....

I think ExH at one time thought we all... me, he and OW would be one big happy family. Not in this lifetime. I despise the woman that knowingly slept with a M'd man and broke up his family. If she truly wanted him, then she should have waited until he got D'd, instead of cheating on her H as well.

I am not friends with him at all. I treat him like a neighbor or an acquaintance. I only speak to him about DS if need be. That's it. I find the less I see or talk to him the less painful it is for me.

Well I do know that ExH affaired down. OW might be younger than me. I'm actually old enough to be her mother, but, and not to toot my own horn, she is definitely not more attractive. She's probably 100 lbs. heavier than I am!

Cat

By the way...My BIL cheated on OW and got OW2 pregnant (one of the reasons why he "left" his W, he didnt want kids). When he found out she was pregnant he broke up with OW2, wanted nothing to do with the baby and nobody found out about it until the baby was a year old...

Then he ended up back with OW2 and dumped original OW....now BIL and OW2 live together and he is not happy, I know first hand...I hear the fighting....but they are good at puttin on a happy face for outsiders...so he got what he deserved...

They say they reap what the sow...hopefully that goes for my ExH as well.

Cat

I have never seen my WH OW, but I have this horrible feeling that she is very pretty...esp since now I have put on almost 40 LBS since Dday....Food is my new best friend, oh well...

It will, I am sure of it, to me it sounds like a disaster waitin to happen.

See I went the other way. When I'm upset I don't eat. My kids actually thought I was anorexic for a long time after I found out about the A. I wasn't, I just couldn't eat. I lost over 60 lbs. Kept most of it off, so I make sure when I do have to see ExH, he notices.

Of course he's never said anything about me losing the weight, but maybe he will see what he gave up, and what he got in exchange.

Cat

I don't know. I've heard from a few people who are friends with him, and they told me that the last few times they saw ExH and OW, they looked really happy. Holding hands, snuggling etc.

Yuck!

Cat

Yeah, I lost a lot of weight at first, but then went the other way and now i cant stop eating....

Oh I am sure he is gonna realize more and more what he gave up in you...good for you for keepin it off and make sure you look extra hot when you do have to see him...he notices, but he wont say anything, so dont expect it, but he notices...

They just got married and had a baby, its the honeymoon period...its gonna take a while for reality to set in, dont worry it will...and tell your friends you dont want to hear this cr@p by the way!

I always remember someone on these boards saying to me a long time ago, that even if ExH doesn't notice or say anything, someone eventually will. I will run into a friend of his or an ex in law who will say...gee I saw Cat today and she looked great, lost a ton of weight etc.

I still remember that poster saying that, can't recall who it was, but that kinda keeps me going. I try and always look my best when I am out because ya never know who ya might see.

Getting harder now with the holidays approaching. I've been eating a lot of crap...Halloween candy...lately, have to get back into my routine...

Cat

Yeah I think these people think I want to know how they are doing. Yeah of course I am curious, but I wish they would only tell me when they are getting D'd!!!!

Cat

Oh yeah, thats true, we hear stuff about them I am sure they hear stuff about us....Hopefully they say sumthin about how good you look in front of that "person he is with".

Yeah I hope so too.

Not sure about the honeymoon period though. I mean how long will it last? They lived together for 2 yrs, been married over a year now, shouldn't the period have gotten old by now?

Cat

I dont think so, Its early yet.... I think they say usu. affairages dont last more than five years..and I dont think your ExH will make it past that....

MY WH isnt even living with OW, so I think they will be together forever....

I hope you are right!

I'll chat again tomorrow, calling it a night. DS has an early morning basketball game and I have to attend.

Have a great night and thanks for being there for me...

Cat

Nite..

This is excellent. Allow me to add:

1) Despite all the hurtful things an xWS does/says/has done/has said, it is normal for the xBS to "still love them" deep inside for what they once meant.

2) I'd bet all the tea in China that the xWS has that same irony going on deep inside towards their xBS too, especially after the affair-fantasy, ga-ga, honeymoon phase dissipates (as it ALWAYS does). They will do all they can to appear happy & content to the outside world but it is almost always a facade.

3) Real love is ultimately a CHOICE...in this case, a choice the WS/xWS must make to demonstrate that. We all know from MB what is required and every BS, divorced or not, makes a CHOICE to not love anymore ("close the door") at some point if the WS remains unrepentant.

4) Does it help the WS/xWS to know that the BS/xBS is "not yet with anyone else"? ABSOLUTELY! It allows them to mentally cake-eat ("my ex still is hung-up on me!"). That is one reason why ultra-dark NC is best. Any contact should be only if absolutely necessary, brief, and unemotional "business-only". Use an IM if possible. Remember, that which appears to be readily available tends to have far less appeal than that which appears to be out-of-reach or slipping away. This is why so often crazy ex's will stir up drama or create new legal battles if the xBS completely ignores them for a sustained period of time...they want you to "think of them" and negative is better than nothing at all to them.

5) The above is NOT a good reason to use someone else or jump into a relationship too fast. Therein lies the anatomy & motivation of the dreaded revenge affair or rebound relationship. Those are inappropriate and almost never work long-term anyway.

6) After divorce, when truly ready, and when the right person comes along ("right" for the right reasons), the xBS being 'with somebody' has a devastating impact on the xWS. Seen it multiple times. Dr. Pittman in Private Lies writes: (paraphrasing--and this was written about the natural history of affair-marriages) "it is eerily common how often the ex-spouse truly moving on closely coincides with the ex-infidel's affair/re-marriage disintegrating and ending for good."

Cat,

Believe me, the "admissions" & "apologies" I heard--phony, self-serving, insincere, and avoiding-of-responsibilty as they were--did nothing for me in terms of closure. In fact, the half-hearted confessions/contritions only pissed me off all the more. I knew they were far more about xWW trying to placate me into not thinking poorly of her actions than they were about REAL remorse and repentance. Otherwise, she would have told the TRUTH--the full truth--and backed it up with actions. Those things were said/written for HER benefit, not mine.

Basically, she wanted me to pat her on the head, validate that she's a good little girl after all, and send her on her way without having to feel any guilt or shame for what she did. Trust me, you are better off without being patronized in that way.

The weird thing is that, to this day (it's a long story how I know all this but I do know it be very true), my xWW is still extremely vexed and annoyed by the fact that she knows her former family, friends, and ME think she's now a lying, betraying, backstabbing, homewrecking, TRAMP.

You would think that someone who is so fulfilled and satisfied by her "great new life" would care less what her long-ex family, friends, and husband think about her. But she does! Despite never even saying goodbye and making no effort whatsoever at amends, she is totally pissed off that I think of her as a deceitful slut and all those from her 'old life' know the truth and feel likewise. She hasn't been able to face a single one of them in 3 years.

In addition, she nonsensically blames me for turning "her true friends" (meaning those who went along or didn't ask too many tough questions) against her since. I have not spoken to any of these people and wouldn't if I could. I have heard that she now has virtually no friends at all. Apparently, it has not occurred to her that these people probably figured her out, saw through her lies, witnessed her trashy lifestyle, and backed away on their own over time.

FIND A MIRROR--THE ANSWERS ARE RIGHT THERE.

My xWW wrote me: "I hoped we could be friends or at least friendly". I told her basically to F-off in response and that I would never lower myself to validate her actions that way. Her OM was also married and she has despicably abused and mistreated OMW and the boy they had together.



They all seem to affair-down don't they? WAY DOWN! My xWW's OM is a high-school dropout, dishonorably discharged from the service, a drug user, vastly older, short with a big beer gut, a serial cheater and abandoner of his 3 kids (from 3 different women), and now a 3-time adulterer/divorcee. She is now the 4th-choice wife of an 8th-rate man with no friends, family, or career to speak of. Good luck with that one!

They all seem to be so insecure and desperate that they will hook-up with whatever trash pays them some attention when they are vulnerable. Talk about "settling"...

As a BS who did not recover a 26 year marriage. I can say that for the first year after the big D my feeling were like so many of you. I wanted the the exwh to repent and apologize and just fall apart. I grabbed on to whatever little bit of drama him and the OW had, hoping for an end to it all.

Well none of those things happened, but as time went on I grew stronger and more independant and came to the conclusion it never would happen. Finally one day I woke up and realized i didn't care anymore.

He married the skank and now every other week or so they are fighting and threating each other with divorce. As for me i ma happily remarried and could care less.

I very seldom speak to him except for things about our children or grandchildren. When I have to be in the same place as him for B-Day parties or something it does not affect me. Its like looking at a stranger someone i don't know. He still is living in the fog and makes no sense half the time.

I did all the right things i exposed to everyone and it made no difference in the affair. His family was my biggest allies in the whole thing. They supported me emotionally through it all. I am still very close to my exmil. I go see her weekly and help care for her because she is dying from cancer. She still tells everyone i am her daughter in law not the skank.

I really believe some waywards never come out of the fog or if they do its way to late and they will settle for the OW because the BS has moved on and does not care anymore. In my case I believe thats the case. He is the type who will stay where he is at to prove he was right and justified in his behavior. So be it.

The most important thing is I am happy and content in life wih a person who treats me like a queen and I sometimes wonder why I allowed myself to put up with exwh's crap for so long.

It does get better and you just have to set your mind to making yourself happy and not worrying about the wayward. You will find life so much better.

Just remember what goes around comes around and when the day comes they fall to the bottom hopefully you will be in a better place and not care. Life is to short and precious to worry about someone who treats the BS like dirt.

Let me summarize what I think I've learned so far, after having a divorce forcibly rammed down my throat by a completely unrepentent WS. The divorce was my punishment for standing up to him about his girlfriends and refusing to be part of his collection of girls:

1) Use Plan B to protect you. Yeah, I know, you're actually in Plan D, but you can use the principals of Plan B to protect yourself. That's how I think of it. Everybody I talk to, from the doctor's office to the insurance guy to our former mutual friends to my children know full well NOT to tell me ANYTHING about what XWS is doing, thinking, or feeling.

Unfortunately, I still get sledgehammered by his actions even when I did nothing to look for it. I go to the doctor's office (which I now pay for myself because I have no health insurance since the divorce, thank you very much) and the receptionist shoves a clipboard in my face and says, "Oh, is this your new address?" And it's the apartment where XWS moved when he ditched the family home. I did not know where he was until then. WHAM.

Or I have to talk to the car insurance guy about having the insurance put in my name, and he says, "Oh, I see XWS is buying a house in ________!" I immediately cut him off, but it's too late. WHAM.

Or I go to Home Depot to see about a line of credit to fix some stuff at the house, and the call center person says, "Is this a former address of yours?" And it's XWS's slut-magnet apartment. WHAM.

I can only imagine what kind of crap I'd be going through if I didn't have extreme precautions in place, when stuff like the above still gets through.

The ringers are turned off on the house phone and have been since he left some 18 months ago. I only have the house phone for the security system.

I never answer my cell phone unless it's been pre-arranged a few minutes before. I do not listen to any voice mail messages. I only have it in case I need to call out, like to 9-1-1. People who really need to get hold of me, like work or the kids, have ways of doing so.

My e-mail is blocked to the hilt. Only a select few addresses, like work and the kids, are allowed in. Everything else is blocked.

The best thing about this is I am never waiting for the phone to ring or checking email to see if he's sent anything. He used to torment me massively with phones and email, mostly by ignoring me but sometimes by throwing a little crumb of attention, or calling and lying and saying he was in for the evening when he was really on his way out with some girl or to a strip club, or drunk-dialing from Shanghai or Chicago about how much fun he was having sitting in the bars with his wonderful, wonderful, ever-so-valued female coworkers.

I'm sure a headshrinker would recognize that this is part of the hypervigilance of PTSD, but hey, my first rule is to protect myself from ever suffering one more drop of his cruelty. And it works.

So, rule #1: Protect yourself. Plan B, Plan B, Plan B.

Wow, that was a lot for #1, wasn't it?

2) Try to find things that comfort you. Collect them. Have a plan for each day, no matter how simple.

3) It's okay if you still love them. Don't let anyone tell you you're "sick" to feel that way, or "need help", or should "forget it and move on." I tell them that in my opinion, anyone who can just sh*t on and destroy a 27-year marriage and family because this make them "happy" is the sick one and needs help. Very, very serious help. As long as you are protecting yourself from WS abuse (see above), it's okay if you still love the person they were before they took a very, very bad path.

4) Tell the truth. Anyone who has any reason to know what happened to my marriage, from relatives to friends to the insurance guy to the neighbors, all hear the same thing: "He had to choose between his girlfiends and his family, and he chose his girlfriends. It's been very hard and a really terrible loss for all of us."

No weasel words. No lying and covering for him or his girlfriends. I've had one or two people tell me to keep quiet and not to say such things. My response was, "If you want lies, you can talk to XWS and he'll give you plenty of lies to feel good about. If you talk to me, you will get the truth."

And if that doesn't work, "Eat Me" might get the point across.

Hang in there. This has been an excellent thread. Thanks, Tabby.
Mulan

Oklahappy, that is a very inspiring story. If i am honest, i am glad my WW is out of my life. She is a biatch,
I have remained close to my in-laws, as well. I am sure the OM is confused by this(although he is a pretty dim bulb , and attributing confusion to him may be giving him too much credit in terms of the ability to form a thought.)
My XWw is a dumb, selfish, promiscuous skank and living with her was just about the loneliest expierience of my life.

Zelmo I am glad I inspired you. Thats not to say I didn't want to save the marriage I really tried . I planA'd my butt off but my plan B was less than stellar. I tried but every crumb he threw I lept for. Looking back I see how sad and scared I was I would loose him forever.

as it turned out it was the best thing for me. I became more independant and relied on myself. For so long i counted on him now I realize thats not how I want to live my life. I will never rely on anyone again. My new H is wonderful and I don't worry about him having a A but I know if anything ever happens I can do it on my own.

Yeah the skank can't stand the fact I still see my exmil. Her problem though not mine. She even accused the exwh of using his family as a way of still knowing about me.... HUH? we don't even discuss them its just a waste of energy.

The one thing I try and say is don't close yourself off to the wonderful things that will come in your life. There is someone out there who will love you and treat you right. When the time is right and your ready it will happen...

Amen

For most of us, our marriages had passed the stage of "romantic" love into the next stage which I guess is called "true love" (according to the 31 Reasons author). Our WS's 'true love' feelings are being masked by the overwhelming "romantic love" feelings for the OP. When our waywards leave, we try to hang on so we also start getting back those romantic love feelings for them that had faded. I think that is part of human nature - to want what you might be losing even more. It's the "don't know what you've got 'till it's gone" kind of thing which intensifies our feelings for them.


Yes, it ALWAYS does. I truly believe that most waywards wish that it had never happened, wish that they could get the feelings back for their spouse, wish that they could end it etc. but they can't. Their reasoning is blurred by the emotions. Why do you think some of them try to cake-eat so long? Mine was one of those.


There are just some WS who will never feel remorse. Face it. They feel that they have found something better and never look back. When the A ends or the affairage ends, they just go on to another one. My brother was one of those. Only now that he is pushing 65 does he realize that there is no perfect relationship or marriage. He openly admits that leaving his first wife was the biggest mistake he ever made. Two failed M and a third on on the rocks suddenly makes them look at things a little differently.

It's like the song says "I will never get over you getting over me." I also think that in their minds, they think that they maybe they can go back if the A doesn't last, so knowing that the BS is there and waiting makes it easier for them....

Very true.

I think it takes about as long to heal and move on as it does for the A to burn out.

I am also a BS who didn't save thier marriage although it wasn't from the lack of trying and praying. I used to post under Stillhurting01. My exWh had an A in 2001 and 2006. He left in 9/06 and our divorce was final 3/08. He is still with ow although from what I hear it is on/off. Times during the last 1 1/2 years he would occassionally texted and make me feel like he was thinking about coming home etc. (cakeeater), At the time I would take any crumbs because I wanted to reconcile so badly and he knew it. Then in late spring it was the straw that broke the camels back for me I see the whore drive by my house and him driving right behind her (yes he moved down the street from me) and after my tears I thought what the he!! am I waiting for?
That's when I really began to see him for who he has become, my fogg was lifting. I began to entertain the thought of dating, maybe just putting my foot out there. Thought about speed dating almost went to an event but it was canceled the last minute. I work per diem for a chain pharmacy and one day there was this guy there fixing the automated dispensing machine. He was there for a few hours at my feet and I kept having to walk over him. He was fun interacting with all of us. I noticed that he wasn't wearing a ring. So when he left I asked one of my co-workers if he was single cause he was kind of cute. She joked with me that she was going to tell him and he was single. I just laughed because when would I ever see this guy again. Fast forward 2 or 3 weeks later and I go into work and she hands me his number and says he wants me to call him. OMG it took me 3 days to get the courage to call. The rest is our short history. We have been seeing each other ever since and I can really say I am falling for him. It's been the happiest 31/2 months that I have had in many years. My kids like him, my friends like him and are so happy for me. I'm happy for me.
And the kicker is that I really think my ex is jealous, he'll text me things like do I ever think about us any more. And about how much I'm seeing him etc. I just ignore it for the most part.
So to make a long story short... there is happiness after divorce even when you didn't want it. It's a journey, mine was very long and painful and I never thought I would be happy again without my exH, and now I am happier than I have been in a very long time.

Still

Still I am so happy for you. Things do have a way of working out for all BS's. Your right the road is a long and hurtful one but somehow we manage to pull ourselves up and move ahead.

As far as the exwh to bad so sad for him. Its the choice he made now he has to live with it, without you.... Feels good to be happy again ..... I wish you all the luck in the world .....

Still,

So glad that things turned out well for you. Another success story of someone who recovered themselves but not their M. I hope to get there too someday....

I read a great quote from Dr. Gary Chapman: "Actions PRECEDE feelings. Not the other way around. Positive actions lead to positive feelings and vice versa". Virtually all waywards are so intensely focused on their FEELINGS only. They 'reason' that they have lost/degraded their feelings for their BS and have 'found'/developed feelings for their affair-partner...therefore they must "follow their heart", leave their BS, and be with their OP as their 'true soulmate'.

They don't realize (and don't want to even consider) the following:
1) Their feelings for the OP didn't appear magically out of thin air--they resulted from (inappropriate) ACTIONS over time.

2) There is nothing unique, special, or predictive over the longer-term about these affair 'feelings'. They appear (temporarily) powerful because of the secrecy, vulnerability, neediness, and 'danger' that are/were present in the affair's early stages.

3) These feelings WILL NOT LAST. Sooner or later, the infatuation wears off, the fantasy dissipates, and the WS will have to confront the (usually ugly, step-down) reality of the situation & OP they have chosen to be with.

4) The affair feelings are not set in stone. If the WS breaks away and goes to sustained NC, they will evaporate as 'magically' as they appeared.

5) Likewise, 'not being able to get feelings back for the BS' is also a total myth. Many WSs, esp during the cake-eating period, will 'date', talk to, and even counsel with their BS--later claiming that they "tried but couldn't get it back". They don't seem to consider that (at best) half-hearted, insincere actions cannot result in positive feelings. Only ending the A and fully committing to positive actions toward the BS will result in the resumption of the positive feelings they claim to seek.

The hallmark of Real Love are ACTIONS...commonality, sharing, bonding, honesty, empathy, kindness, conciliation, forgiveness, etc. The focus of Romantic Love (which is nothing but a euphemism for addictive, consuming infatuation) are euphoric FEELINGS. The wayward, like the teenager in puppy love, will seek to follow and indulge these feelings no matter how hopelessly inappropriate or irrational they are. How many times have you seen a WS affair with a type of person (married, vast age difference, shady, tons of baggage, socially dysfunctional, etc.) whom they never would have considered to be suitable partnership material previously??? ALL THE TIME.

One more excellent quote from Dr. Chapman: "Following your feelings in the absence of your standards and values is the surest path to personal ruin."

I related that exact quote to my then-WW (you know how well WSs react to logic) and she said:
"I'm not ruining my life, SDCW....and that's a chance I have to take!"

Chai you will, for some it just takes a little longer. Give yourself time to build strength and grieve the loss. Its not easy for sure I can attest to that.

The easiest way for me was to ignore and cut off any contact with exwh. Once that happened my lovebank went broke. I can now look back and remember the good times from years ago and not cry. I can smile about them and remember them with fondness. I guess for me and i would say alot of BS's we still have some kind of love or feelings for the ex but its not the spouse they became on D-day we care for its the person we married and shared a life wih. Once they became wayward the person we knew vanished.

Just remember your dealing with a new and not improved person in a wayward. So forget about him and take care of you...... You will get there I promise.......

Oklahomahappy (sp?)
I followed your story way back when and I am so happy for you.
I don't know where this relationship will lead but I'm enjoying the run... He treats me very well.

Chai, I have followed your story also. It's heartbreaking all that you have gone through and believe me I was praying for you. It will take time to get over the divorce. For a very long time it would absolutely kill me to say exH or that I was divorced to people who didn't know me. Then one day it slipped out of my mouth and it didn't hurt so much. There are still times when I see my ex and a twinge tweaks my heart, but I'm coming to realise that it was for the could of beens and should of beens not necessarily him. I mean this past October should of been our 25th anniversary. But life is going on and I will not waste any more years on him... looking forward to my new beau and our can be's.

Still

Thank you so much for this thread. It has given me much to think about.

AM

Okla and still, thank you for sharing your success stories with us...I know it helps me to see the light at the end of this long and painful road...

SDCWman, thanks for sharing your wisdom....I still have a very hard time in that I just feel sooo unlovable, I cant get over the fact that he just feels nothing for me anymore, why wasnt I worth even trying to save our marriage...im stuck in the self pity rut and I gotta get out...

But you are right, it is a choice that the waywards made when they decided to put all their attention towards someone else instead of their BS...They dont realize that if they put that attention towards us they would have stayed in love with us...

I definitely believe that my WH chose not to love me anymore, just like I am trying to do now to him...but it was a lot easier for him because he had someone else to fall in love with at the time..

stillhere {
I definitely believe that my WH chose not to love me anymore, just like I am trying to do now to him...but it was a lot easier for him because he had someone else to fall in love with at the time..}


Maybe I'm wrong because who really knows what goes on in the mind of a wayward.

But I think it's not a choice but the easy way out, he does not have it in him to make right what he has done wrong....

It's easy to invest in something new rather than manning up and putting in the work to restore something.

Still,

It's isn't easy to put that love we had for our WS's behind us. Beleive me I struggled with that for a very long time. Too long.
What I do now when those feelings pop into my head and sometimes heart I bring back the memories of all the hurt ad pain he caused me. All the times he was with me before he left and made me feel alone even thou he was right there.
It was a choice he made for all of my family to leave, and we have to suffer through the consequences. But now he is suffering, I know he hates to see me with someone else. It kills him that my DD's have met my new guy and want nothing to do with his whore. He brings it up and they tell him no f'ing way. He doesn't even see the difference. This wasn't the man I fell in love with. He is a shell of a man now.
I had reached out to him so many times over the last 3 years and was always faced with rejection.... now it bothers him that I'm not reaching out to him anymore.
I love my new life, it's not perfect but it is mine and I can choose who I want to share it with.
I was alone a long time before I met D, I have healed for the most part but I will always have scars. D is helping me whether he realises it or not he makes me laugh and that is some good medicine.

Still

I know, Still...I was there too for a long, long time too. I had all the self-pity and self-doubt you feel now. It takes time and actions on your part to slowly rebuild your self-esteem and get stronger. You will get there, a week at a time.




Dr. Frank Gunzberg has some good writings on this. The BS has to understand that the A is much more about the WS's character deficiencies, faulty boundaries, & poor choices in life than it is about the BS. Even though it hurts terribly and feels like a planned rejection of the BS for the OP, it really isn't...the A, no matter what mistakes were made in the M, is the result of the WS's insecurities, attention-seeking, and irrational fantasies.

I would bet you in the vast majority of cases that, if the WS had directed towards their marriage even a quarter of the vast emotional energy/efforts they expended in concealing, propogating, and rationalizing their affair, the outcome would have been VERY different.

Ultimately, affairs are relationships that never should have happenned and never would have if the WS was thinking/acting appropriately...even for them. Very, very few of them truly go on to "happily ever after till death do us part". Affairs are, in the end, acts of self-destruction for the WS and not the 'fault' of the BS.

Usually the weekends are slow here but this thread has been burning! Guess We BS have more time than most.

Thanks for the sharing. I am glad that some of you have found new love and new lives.

I was always very independent. My XH thought I did not need him and would be fine. I can take care of myself and have. I have no choice.

It scares me sometimes of the future and what it holds for me. I know God has a plan for me still. This has really changed me. I look at the world differently. I was very trusting and open and I feel more closed off. Made some amazing friends from MB and they have been like rocks and there when we need each other.

Dating? Is that part of truly moving on? Can't think about it. People ask me what is my type? I have no type...I had my husband. Feel very lonely but for my XH before he went into the fog. I read somewhere that you should wait one month for each year of your M. Well I was M 22 years so it looks like I have 20 more months to go. Right now NI -- totally Not Interested.

Am I cynical that I don't want to get to know another man, listen to their life, their problems? My D16 had a terrible time with XH leaving us. I live with it every day. She is finally beginning to recover. I know kids are resilient, but feel she needs stability from me.

I love XH. Will it ever go away? I don't know. Love is supposed to be a decision. Will I act on it. Absolutely not because right now it will do no good. XH is drinking himself into a coma with OW right by his side. He is missing a great life with us but I can't change him.

I am at the point where I have accepted being without my exWW. I still dearly miss what she was. My entire life revolved around her and the kids for so long and it gave me a purpose. The kids are my life now but my time with the kids feels so incomplete right now. When DS7 scored his first soccer goal last week, there was no one to celebrate it with. After so much work in the last year with DD4's speech, I miss out on her having a conversation with both of us.

I still feel like I'm drifting. But, I'm also starting to realize she may have never been marriage material due to family history. With so much divorce in her family, she was raised in an environment of constant blameshifting and no one taking a hard look at themselves. I always saw this in her identical twin sister. But, now I've realized my exWW is even worse than her sister when it comes to blameshifting and not looking at your self in the mirror as the first step in solving problems.

Hope,

I thought I would stand forever waiting for the restoration of my marriage. I had told my X that I was standing for our M. God does have a plan for all of us, sometimes we're looking so hard at the closed door that we don't see the one He has opened for us.
Two months after my divorce was final I was still struggling to get out of bed and survive, dating was the last thing on my mind. Hope you are one strong lady and God will lead you to the path he has in store for you. Whether that be finding love with someone else or your WH finding his way back to you. I don't know about you but when I was where you are now I needed to lick my wounds per se.
I won't lie dating is scary also... I had never kissed another man beside my xh since I was 18. Who would of thought that at 48 years of age I better start thinking about birth control just in case this leads to sex. (if I even remember how lol)

Still

This got my attention. We BS's have been forced to take a hard look at ourselves! Our WS's have not. They can continue to escape. For me it's been a really good thing. But what will ever cause my WH to do it? Maybe nothing. Losing his family doesn't seem to be enough.

PSU biker,drifting is the right emotion. Days pass sometimes and I wonder where the time goes. I am doing better and all I have is time.

Still, I take one day at a time. My self confidence is being restored. I don't hide in the shadows anymore. I can date I just don't. It is not a scary thing to me--just futile. Don't think I can ever feel like that again. Tired of friends/family saying I will meet someone. Like that is the end all. A replacement. The thought just depresses me.

Maybe in time I will be in a different place. Right now this is my time and my time with my girls. We need to heal.

Your right we as BS's had to look at ourselves and for me it was a good thing.

So far as the waywards looking at themselves, I truly believe that at some point in time be it 1 year or ten years later the ws comes to realize what they have done and the problem for them will be once they do no one will care anymore. More than likly the BS's will have moved on and be living a happy life. And if they are anything like my exws he will keep it to himself so he won't have to admit defeat and wrongdoing.



The wayward will have to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and see what they have become. A broken shell of someone who we used to love. At least we can look in the mirror and sleep at night knowing we did all we could do.

What goes around comes around... Just wait and see......

Luckily I had a pretty wild time prior to my M. Sowed my own oats! It's like riding a bike -- you never really forget how. Be safe though. Those times have changed.

Hope,

I plan on being safe... the last thing I want to do is tell my mother that I am pregnant and not married lol.
Looking back exwh was my first love and I was his. He never really dated before we got together. We were each others first if you know what I mean. Maybe if he would of dated more before we got together instead of after we were married we wouldn't be where we are now. Need to stop looking back and look forward again.
Got to pick up my house, D is coming over for some football and dinner :-) later today.

Still

Both Xh and myself dated and were on our own and it still made no difference.

When they turn wayward, they turn wayward.

I actually had that thought too - WH was only 22 when I met him and everything happened so fast between us - sometimes I think he just snapped and is now enjoying what I did before we got together - I guess I still have the hope it's only temporary but I might be wrong...

I am rooting for each and every one of you. This is becoming one of the most POSITIVE, yes I said positive and hopeful threads on this forum.

That is because I hear you guys talking positive about yourselves, not basing your view of your future on how your WH acts or has acted twords you.

bravo.

Okla,

My EXH was just the opposite. All of his friends and family rallied around him and have ignored me. It was the "as long as he is happy" theory.

His family never liked me anyway, so it really doesn't matter to me if I ever see them. I hear his family and friends absolutely LOVE OW.

How can people justify what he did?!

And yeah I do believe that however unhappy ExH may become with OW, he will never leave her. He has too much pride to admit he might have messed up again!

Not sure if I believe what goes around comes around. Seems like all the puzzle pieces are falling in place for him, and crumbling for me!


Cat

Mulan,

I like you, have no problems telling people that ExH cheated on me. My DD gets annoyed at me sometimes telling me that people really don't care about all that happened in my life, but I guess it makes me feel better when I say... I'm divorced, and insert the disclaimer...cuz he cheated on me with someone 17 years younger!

Cat

Still,

Although understandable, you are looking for "answers" as to why the A happenned and trying to apply a sane, rational reason for an intensely insane, irrational (and purely emotional) act. This is soooo tempting for us BSs to do, in an attempt to logically explain away our pain and loss, but it is a fool's errand.

The idea that "maybe if we both had had more dating experience prior to getting togther, this wouldn't have happenned" is nothing more then the flip-side of the WS affair-excuse/rationalization "we just got married too young" or "we just aren't compatible".

Tempting as it is, do not go there. Nobody has an affair & breaks up a marriage YEARS LATER because they logically "just want to date other people like they wish they had in the past".

Chai and SDWman,

I don't know if I agree with the statement that WS's put up a facade to make them seem happy and wish they could have gone back to their BS.

I gave ExH numerous opportunities to come back to me, wrote a very long letter pouring my heart out to him. He even said it was a very emotional read for him.

So if he really wanted to come back to me, why didn't he do it then? I basically told him to check his pride at the door, we all make mistakes, we can recover etc.

Cat

SDWman,

You wrote:

3) These feelings WILL NOT LAST. Sooner or later, the infatuation wears off, the fantasy dissipates, and the WS will have to confront the (usually ugly, step-down) reality of the situation & OP they have chosen to be with.


Do you think that applies to WS's that marry the OP? I mean in my case, my ExH lived with OW for 2 yrs. before they M'd. Don't you think the drudgery of day to day life would have given him a clue as to what M would be like?

He M'd her anyway. That was his choice. He could have kept living with her or left.

Cat

Stillhurtingnot,

I still have a VERY hard time telling people I am divorced and it's been 2 yrs. now. I feel like when I say the word DIVORCE people look at me like a failure. I absolutley hate saying it. I guess that's why I always make sure I say ...cuz ExH cheated on me. I guess I feel like I have to explain why, that it wasn't all my fault.

Yeah I know so many people are D'd now a days that it really is no big deal, but to me, it is.

I went to a high school reunion recently and was mortified I had to tell people I was D'd. I felt like scum.

I was looking in the paper today in the society page. They have marriage announcements with pictures and pictures of couples on their anniversaries.

There were many there celebrating their 50th anniversary and it made me very sad that my picture would never be there. Had ExH not had the A, we could have been there, but at my age, and no prospects out there at the moment, I doubt I'll make it to 50 years with anyone now, and that saddens me.

I guess in a way I feel that ExH took that away from me.

Cat

Stillhere8126,

I too feel like you do, very unlovable.

How could ExH have tossed me aside to fall in love with someone else. I guess if it was just an A and it ended, then it might be a bit easier, it was just lust or whatever. But he married her and had a baby with her, so he obviously must have feelings for her!

Why not me?

Cat

I am right there with you too, cat. IDK it just $uck$.

My WH actually said to me, one of the many times at the beginning when I asked if we had a chance, "No offense, but I dont want to be with a sick person."....This is in reference to my depression...

This statement just killed me, to this day still does...I just think, yeah if he doesnt want it who else would...or maybe that I just would never want to burden anyone with my depression...

Cat,

it may seem like everything for him is rosy, but thats you and others looking from the outside. We really don't know what is happening on the inside. More than likly we never will because of their pride or sense of entitlement.

I know this for a fact that my exwh has it rough because she does not trust him. She knows he cheated with her on me so its always in the back of her mind will he do it again. Of course she was cheating as well. He also can't talk to me or any other woman without her freaking out. So see its not always what it appears to be. They can make it look good but that does not mean it is.

Just wait and watch it make take a few more years but the bubble will burst. Dr. Harley says most affairages don't make it past 5 years.

Heck by the times things go bad you probably won't care anyhow. It will get better for you in time. Focus on you and making your life happy, don't worry about exwh time will take care of him ...

Okla,

I guess the biggest issue I am having now is financially. I am making as much $$ as possible, but it's still not enough. Have alot of medical and house expenses. etc.

What is eating away at me is that ExH seems to have it all. He has the $$, just bought a new car, never seems to want, and here I am struggling.

I guess I am in the pattern of "woe is me", but I just can't get past that he and OW have what should be mine.

Spoiled brat thinking I know, but that's how I feel and don't know how to get past that.

If only I had $$ to fix up my house, etc., etc.

They say living well is the best revenge. I want to do that, just can't financially. And I don't mean taking around the world trips. Just fixing up my house, getting a newer car etc.

He knows I'm struggling. I had to spend alot of $$ recently on a huge plumbing issue with the house. Meantime, right before OW had the baby, they took a very nice vacation...

That's what gets me the most.

Cat

Stillhere,

How awful that must have felt for you to hear that.

It took me the longest time to accept going on AD's. I thought...heck I wasn't crazy! Only crazy people go on those. It wasn't until my Dr. sat down with me and asked me if I had a heart problem would I hesitate taking medication for that? I told him no.

He said, OK, you have an emotional problem, a "mind" problem, so why do you hesitate taking medication for it?

I told him because only crazy people took pills like that. He said that was not true. Illness doesn't just happen in your heart or lungs or liver or kidneys. It can happen in your mind as well, and it needs to be treated just like any other physical illness would.

He made me see then that I wans't crazy, that I did have depression, a "mind" illness, and there was nothing wrong with that.

I still don't mention to people I suffer from it. Even though the Dr. made me realize it was nothing I should be ashamed of, I think people still look at it differently. But I also think it is becoming more acceptable and people are beginning to understand it a bit more.

(((((Stillhere)))))

Cat

Funny story - at our 15 year HS reunion last Thanksgiving, my ex SIL got some questions on why exWW was not there with me. (exSIL, exWW are identical twins and the three of us graduated from HS together). She told them her sister and I were getting a divorce because she cheated on me with her 50 year old unemployed, toothless, 2nd cousin. Nothing like the truth...

Too funny!!

Cat
I do understand the feelings you have. For the first year after exwh left I worked two jobs and still had a rough time. MY DS15 at the time went to live with exwh and the skank because I was never home. He didn't understand I was working two jobs for him. Now years later he understands it and he regrets moving with them.

It felt like i was working myself to death while he and OW lived it up. Nice home and cars, eatting out etc. etc. Little did I know even though I was working hard I was making myself stronger and more independant. I was living a truthful life and had nothing to be ashamed of.

Fast forward a few years, I still work at my job and have gotten promoted to a shift supervisor. I have a man who loves me and does right by me. I have a nice place to live and decent car and even go out to eat.

Going through all of the bad and hard times made me appreciate life so much more. I don't take anything for granted anymore because I now know life can change in the blink of an eye. I am sure of myself and know i can survive anything.

You can do these things to. Just stop thinking of all they have or do. I know its hard because I felt the same way, she was living my life i was suppose to have. But then we have to remember their lives are based on lies and hurtfulness. The foundations are weak and crumbling little by little. Your life will be built on truthfulness and honesty. Hard to break that foundation down.

I wish I had the magic words to help you through this. I know it hurts and we second guess ourselves. We play the what if game over and over in our heads. We can't do that to ourselves. It will eat you alive. Take it one day at a time and if by chance somthing happens or he changes you can then make a descion based on where you are and how you feel.....

We never know what the future holds for us. So look ahead to the good things in life, they are out there...

Thanks Okla,

It just seems like I will never get to where you are...loving husband, happy again.

I just wish something good would happen to me, no matter how small, just to keep me going. Seems like there is this dark cloud over me that just doesn't want to move.

Just today my hot water heater went. I thought, of course it did, what else is new? More $$ to spend that I don't have...

Cat

Cat

I am sorry to hear about the hot water heater. I know it seems like its never ending. Shoot we went with gas in the house for two months because exwh decided he didn't need to pay the bill after he left. It was oct. and Nov before i had enough to turn it back on.

I know I am sounding like a broken record here but it will get better. I never thought it would for me either. Yes it took some time was a little over 2 years when life turned around for me.

Maybe it would help if you found a good support system through your church or the community. I don't know alot about your situation as I was off line for a long time. Just know I am willing to listen if you need to vent. Its hard to be alone and things are going wrong.

I will keep you in my prayers...

Thanks Okla,

I really do try and keep a positive attitude, at least on the outside.

Actually I am quite a good actress. Many people that I know think I am doing well, have moved on etc. Somedays I think I could get an academy award for putting on such a good show. But unfortunately that's all it is.

I know eveyrone has told me things will get better. But they also told me the A would end, ExH would never marry the OW especially with her being 17 yrs. younger etc. But they were all wrong, so I guess I'm just having a hard time believing it all.

I've totally lost faith in God. I know that's a huge no no, but I can't help it. Seems like the sinners get rewarded and the good people get the short end of the stick all the time.

OK enough pity party. Going to bed.

Cat

In the beginning of A, I was ashamed and a wanted to hide in shame. XH had A with his direct report and I worked there also.

I lived in fear, worried he was going to lose his job and unfortunately I did not find this site till almost 6 months later and learned about exposure which probably came too late.

XH finally did get demoted and I still can't believe they have their jobs. BUT I got over my shame and realized I had nothing to hide. XH never told anyone he even moved never mind D. So it became my personal decision for anyone that asked about him for me to say. "I'm sorry you must have not heard that XH abandoned DD and myself for PP -- the plastic pinata. I actually have gotten to enjoy the look of shock on their face.

It has set me free. When I shop and decide to buy myself something special at a cosmetic counter I say "Yes I am treating myself because my H cheated on me with PP". Amazing all the people that know her. I have NOTHING to hide. While they both think that no one really knows, it is the worst kept secret in the Company.

Catgirl, have you thought about selling your house and downsizing to a newer condo? Think out of the box. I too thought that XH was living like a rock star the way they were going away almost every month. Now I realize they are trying to continue the fantasy. Did a credit report on him and he is in massive debt. So much for fantasy. Look into yourself for your own happiness. As long as you compare they win. Just not worth it.

Cat, there are many times I get mad at people that say "You are so strong", "you are a hero". I am weak but one day I want to feel like that. I deserve it.

As for God there were many times I was mad at Him. It is not that you have lost faith in Him but yourself. That is the time he will carry you. I used to pray to God to bring XH home, to give me justice. Now I just say "God's will be done". It is enough.

Hello Catgirl,
I've never posted before but felt compelled to share some thoughts with you.
I have discovered some truths in my life as a result of my H's A. Just so you know, we are still separated and he feels incapable of being the H that I need...despite the end of the A.
I have some choices to make. My life choices. And they begin with the way that I think about things.
I don't know whether or not you are open to reading certain books but I've come across two books that have been very helpful to me:
The Power of the Subconscious Mind and You are What you Think.
Both of these books have helped me change the energy around me.
You are entitled to your feelings about the outcome of your M. No doubt about it.
But I'm seeing from your thread that you expend a great deal of energy in hoping for retribution and the fall of your ExH and the OW. Wasteful time and energy that could be better used on you and for you. You can cultivate the life that you want. You can have what you want too.
I find that if I put out negative thoughts and energy, which in my book translates into karma, even though I may be able to justify it in my own mind that they deserve it, I am sure to find that whatever it is I've projected onto them, I get back...in one shape or another. I believe this wholeheartedly.
I am hoping that you can shift the focus of your frustrations and turn those thoughts into positive thoughts of harmony, love, good will, and kindness to all around you...you will foster positive outcomes and your life will change.
These are just my thoughts and I've found that they have kept me centered through the madness of this travesty of my H's A. Literally thought I'd lose my mind during the the first 8 months but I've come to a better place inside myself.
You've got to want to heal from this Catgirl. You can't perpetuate the trauma for yourself by focusing on them anymore.
Make yourself a new life...put out only positive thoughts to everyone in your life...it will foster good will that will come back to you. Self-discipline of mind will help you heal these wounds. The longer you choose to focus on what was taken from you, the longer you will keep from receiving them.
I hope this helps you.
Blessings,
W

Hi Cat
Again, I can so relate to what you're saying and let me remind you, I'm 19 years out from you as it happened to me 20 years ago.

I am not having a pity party for myself as you're not either, (although it probably sounds it) but I agree with you that it's so hard watching them succeed in life while you struggle along on your own. Like you, I was told that things would get better, I deserved better, the A would end, blah blah but that's not what happened with my situation either. They destroyed two families and have been happily married for more than 15 years, become multi millionaires in the process and live in a fabulous home on the waterfront. I know, I know, material success is not everything but it just pi**es me off that they haven't seemed to have had to face any consequences for their appalling behaviour and seem to be accepted by everyone.

And I really loathe the expression "move on". Yeah right I've "moved on" whatever that means because I have no choice but to do so.

Where's that karma bus when you want it!!!

Dont lose faith in God, Cat...We need him now the most...He is what we got right now. I lost faith in the beginning, but he didnt do this to us, our Jacka$$ WH did. Our faith needs to be stronger than ever now....He will help us through.

I dont believe that God doesnt give us more than we could handle, this was definitely more than I could handle...but he gave us free will and does not have control over us esp. if we are not listening to him...like my WH was very religious and obviously he had to tune him out to do this....

And it does seem like the sinners get rewarded, maybe at the beginning, because that is how the devil gets his grip...Look good things happen if you sin....but you know what, I could NOT live with myself if I did what my WH did to me and DS...The guilt would kill me. My heart and soul are clear, I am not perfect, but I would never leave my DS to go with another man. And i try to live a good life...

My WH still feels the need to hide what he is doing..so he knows he did a really bad thing he just is being selfish...and I truly believe that you cannot act that selfish without it coming back to you somehow...I believe that is why we will never hear an apology..they live in denial, but deep down inside they know what they did was wrong...

I mean why dont they just say..."I am sorry what I did was wrong, but I dont care I am still gonna do it"...Instead we all hear half a$$ed apologies, that are not real apologies....or them blamin the BS for their own shortcomings...it is because they can only live in denial, the truth is to horrible for them to face....

wonderfully said Still.....

Hope,

I did consider selling the house, but DS has been through so much I hate to uproot him from the only home/neighborhood he has ever known.

Also, and I guess this is more of a case of... biting off my nose to spite my face...my home is the only thing I can say is mine.

ExH took away my hopes, self esteem, dreams of a future with him, took away my $$ and bankrupted me, I don't want him to win by taking away my home as well.

My credit is shot, there is no way I would be able to buy another home for many years. I like where I live and it gives me pride in keeping up my house, no matter how difficult it is at times.

I never knew how to do any home repairs, outside work etc. that was alwyas ExH's job. Well I've learned now, and it's quite satisfying.

I know ExH wants me to fail in the house. He told me before the D that he didn't know how I would manage it without him there. I'm sure he wants to say ...see she couldn't do it cuz I'm not there to help.

I guess it's more of a pride thing to show him and everyone else that I'm not cracking under all the pressure of owning a home. I *am* handling it.

Guess that's why I fight so hard to stay put. Maybe that's a crazy reason why, but it makes me happy and not much does these days...

Cat

Warrioress,

I agree with you, and my IC has been telling me the same thing for months. I am expending way too much energy on them, I should be using it on me. Somehow that's easier said than done.

I guess I just want them to pay for all the pain they've caused me and my kids and that's how I deal with it. Not a good way I know...

I actualy read the book The Secret. I did try to put out positive energy, and it would come back to me. Never did. But then again I was doing that before my ExH had the A. I was a very positive person. Look where that got me.

So I don't know if I buy the positive energy stuff. I know I won't ever be able to give positive energy and good will to ExH and OW, that's for sure...

Cat

Prettypearl,

I am so sorry that you are still going through all the pain 19 yrs. later. I guess your ExH's M is the one that will last. People tell me "affairages" don't last, well your ExH's is proof it did and is thriving.

I do hope I can get past this and not be 19 yrs. out and still feel the same.

It is so hard, and like you I want revenge, but I guess there's only so much we can do...

Cat

Still,

I know God didn't do this to us, but I still question why ExH is being blessed with stuff. Yeah I know all about free will, but shouldn't the good be rewarded for doing good, not the other way around?

I guess that's why I see God as not there, not listening, not caring. ExH was not at all religious, I was the one that was. Look where that got me!

OW is quite religious. Look where that got her!

What's wrong with this picture?!

Yeah they have to live with themselves, but they compartmentalize it all and tuck it away somehow, so it doesn't affect their lives.

Some days I wish I was the one that did wrong as it seems like the wrong-doers are happiest!

Cat

(( Catgirl))

I really feel for you, it really does stink that it looks like they are getting all the rewards. I know I would feel the same way if my exWH marries the OW. I would much rather see him with anyone else but her.
I know that this may be easier to say but I have been where you are... focusing and putting all my energy into what they are doing. You need to let it go, this is eating you alive. Focus on the small positives in your life. Each day think of one thing to be thankful for... soon you will see the many blessings that you do have in your life.
It worked for me. I started with being thankful that I had a job that I love, my kids who I love more than anything on this earth, finding somrthing that I had been looking for. Look at the good in your life not the "good" in the waywards life.

(((Cat)))

Still

Still,

Yes it is eating me alive, it's just so hard not to think of what they have.

And you are right, I think it would have been alot easier if he would have remarried someone else, not the person that had a role in destroying my family.

She had a H herself, she knew ExH had a wife and kids, yet she went after him anyway.

Another thing that is getting harder for me is that now that they have a new baby, they are going out with DS as a "family" when ExH has him for visitation. DS, ExH and OW never really went out much when ExH had him, it was either ExH had him alone or took him to his home with OW there.

Now that the new baby is here they are going shopping, out to eat etc. like one big happy family. It hurts me to think people/strangers look at them and think my DS is hers!

Silly stuff to clutter my mind with, but that's what I'm dealing with now...

Cat

Prettypearl, what have you done with yourself over the last 20 years? Did you have children? Did you remarry?

Cat, unfortunately there are affairages that last. I know that the stats say less than 3%, but it sure seems like there are more. I know of a few myself. In one case I know that the WH had extreme guilt. But whatever happens, your WH's new marriage will eventually turn into the typical marriage. That means there will be a screaming child, dirty dishes, trash to take out, toys to pick up, bills to pay, overtime at work, and bad hair days. Will they make it? Maybe. They have both already proven that they are more likely to bail than do the hard work. But by that time, you won't care.

I agree with whoever said that you are wasting time by giving it so much attention. That takes emotional and creative energy away from getting on with your life. Set a goal Cat. Whatever it is, throw yourself into it. Maybe it's to get a better job, more education, finding a date, whatever. Think about what you want your life to look like in ten years and go for it. Get a plan and work it. You will never forget the hurt, but if you focus your attention to something else it may not eat at you so much.

Hi Chai
Nope, no children and I didn't re-marry or re-partner. Not even really "dating" over those 20 years. I tried it a bit but didn't like the whole scene and would rather stay home with a good book! I still have zero self esteem after being dumped by the one I thought I was going to be with forever and who I dearly loved.

I really don't want to sound like "woe is me" as that is not my life at all. I have a fantastic network of friends (mainly divorced women) and we have terrific times together. I also have a fabulous job that I love and that pays well and I really enjoy coming home to my beautiful apartment each night. The thing that sticks in my craw is the fact that they were the cheaters and they've prospered unbelievably. It's just not right but then hey, what's the old saying "life's not fair".

I could even make mischief with them if I so desired by calling his ho wife and telling her about the times he's called me expressing regret over what happened with us, inviting me out to lunch, dinner etc. but you know what - I couldn't be bothered. They deserve each other.

Cat,

Our exWH made a choice to have an affair and leave us. It was a decision that was taken away from us, especially for us who didn't want the divorce and did everything we could to save our M. We have a choice to make also, are we going to let thier choices define who we are?
Are we going to make the choice to stop looking at that closed door and ignore the door that God has opened for us? I had to stop looking at the closed door. Yes it still stings when I see obits about the beloved spouse left behind, wedding and anniversary announcements because I'll probably never have that with my childrens father. That doesn't mean I will never have that with someone else. You know the moment I stopped dwellng on my closed door it wasn't a few weeks later I met a great guy. If I had continued to be focusing on my ex I would of missed a great oppurtunity (sp?).
Cat I never thought I could be happy again, I never thought that I would feel love for another man. You know what I am the happiest I have been in many years. When I was in IC my C was always telling me I don't know what it is to have someone really love me (she also knew my ex), because what I was getting from my ex wasn't love. She would also tell me that when I did meet a special someone that I would be amazed at what it like to really be loved and think why the heck did I waste so much time thinking about ex. She was right.
D treats me like I finally realised I deserve to be treated.
Don't rush into dating if your not ready, but don't close yourself off to the possibilty either. It took me a long time to get here, I am healthier emotionally then I would of been if I started to soon.
Recently I had a new family portrait done of my new family (sans exwh), the photographer had us sitting in the distance on a log looking up stream. After he used creative license and changed the sky... to one that had clouds in the background and a beautiful sunset in front of us. You know what he told me, that he was compelled to do that because of of the hurt and pain we had been through is now behind us and the beautiful things are in front of us.
Cat look to the beautiful things right in front of you.

Still

PP, I dont even know you and it sticks in my craw too how they have seemed to prosper too!! You deserve a good relationship...get out there and find the love you deserve...and I am SURE that there is another good person deserving of your love, There are a lot of good people that would love to stay home with you and read a good book...You sound like a very loving and caring person...Spread it around, it sounds like that is what you need but you wont find it if you dont try....I think you are ready!

There are good people out there, I dont think I would beleive that either if I didnt read their posts on here...There out there...

There are some good people out there. THere are a boatload of divorced(betrayed) women out there. DUDE

Just please do not get into a relationship with those divorced betrayed people and then tell them you want to change to being friends with them and go back to your spouse.

Like your own wife?

I dont think that will happen, PP hasnt been with her spouse for 20 years...

Touche! DUDE

Well, at least you got some sort of apology and regret. That had to at least give you some sort of closure. Most of us only wish that we could get something even close to that.

So if he is so happy, then why did he keep calling you? Gotta wonder....

Good point, Chai...

Yes you're right Chai - why indeed contact me if they're so "happy"! And let me tell you this went on for YEARS, him calling me on a regular basis to say hello. It wasn't until I discovered this wonderful site and got a bit of a clue that I started to Plan B him about 3 or 4 years ago and stopped taking his calls.

I have put my toe into the dating scene and have had a few pleasant "dates" but I'm totally out of my comfort zone doing so. I will push on with it though as I know there's someone out there for me. I have lots to offer a good man. You've only to read posts on here to know there are fantastic, decent people in the world. The level of disrespect some of these people on these boards have to tolerate from their spouses just confounds me.

Thanks for your kind words Stillhere - much appreciated.

Good for you

They all have a crisis of conflict at some point that sends them reeling back to those from there past. Like they some how suddenly discovered a 12 step program.

My Ex husband and I had a lot of difficulties.

I was a WW. I came home and by his encouragment we started marriage counseling to try to save our marriage.

Somewhere along the way XWH went nuts and began a revenge affair with a woman who suspiciously was introduced to him by his best friend (ex girl friend before me). In the end He decided to leave our marriage and family (our son was 1 years old) to be with OW and her adolescent son.

The had a complete plan to be a ready made Betty Crocker family...and I was to be best friends with OW.

Did I mention i am Italian?

XH did not like my reluctance to obey into his perfect fantasy. He started cutting out things like helping with the baby, helping me when I was sick. He was always to busy. My fight and love died for him when he left me to suffer and didn't seem to care what happened.

I became VERY sick. I was so sick I could not hardly get off the couch...I had severe migrain that debilitated me. I begged him to take me to the hospital because I had never had anything like this. He refused said it would cost too much and then said he had to go he had "plans".

My family stepped in furious with him. My uncle drove 2 hours to take me to the hospital since I couldn't drive and he watched the baby while they tended to me. I recieved 2 bags of fluids as I was severly dehydrated, an MRI, and lots of Pain meds.

When i was released my uncle took me to his home he had here in our area to rest. He called my XH and MADE him take the baby.
The next day my family called the hospital because they thought I had been admitted. There was a miscommunication and they thought I was missing.

My XH called crying fearful of what had happened to me.
When i returned to my house where he had stayed with the baby I was going through some computer files and noticed a chat log. XH had been talking to OW from MY computer. They were making plans to take our son (who was to be no where near OW) to a local aquarium for a secret day out. But my Missing status ended up ruining there plans. God was watching out for us that day.

I packed that bit of information away and never said anything to XH about it. I was so disgusted with him leaving me to die I let my anger help me move on.

That was 5 years ago.

Today I only talk to XH on child related matters and I could really not care less what he and his wife (ow) do. I know Karma has hit them numerously since this all went down. I left it to god and he did what he saw was fit.

Well about a year ago XH called me confessing a lot of things. I was thinking ok.....well the past is the past move on ok I have. Then he tells me about the plan they made and apologizes profusely for what he did.

I simply told him...I know. I have always known about it.

The silence was deafening. He then said OK well I will talk to you later and that was that.

Waynerds are generally really slow. Eventually tho it all catches up to them.

I was hospitalized with a tumor in my chest when my son now 8 was 6 mos old. I remember my H stayin in the hospital with me crying being so comforting, sayin he didnt know what he would do if somethin happened to me....flash forward to after dday when son was six years old....I tried to commit suicide but chickened out before it was too late...the nurses told me if I didnt get help I would have died, They had to shock my heart in the ambulance and I was having seizures....

The first thing I remember is waking up to my WH saying how selfish I was to attempt suicide and that the nurses told him I almost died....WH said just tell the doctor that my he loves someone else now and doesnt love me anymore...Then I was put in the phsychiatric ward when my WH came to visit he was adamant about the fact that I needed to know that he didnt love me anymore and that he loved someone else....They brought my mother in and he made sure he told her too...

I have never in my life felt such pain....and to this day he could care less if I live or die...I dont know what I did to make this change in him, which of course his change of heart, according to him, is because of stuff that I did....He recently gave me back my suicide notes and said these read very sad...not I am sorry I put you thru this....

After all that he has done to me I still love him, but I dont know If I could really ever get past the way he treated me the mother of his only son... I really dont think he will ever get it.

stillhere8126, it's not something you did what could in any way justify a behaviour like this on his part - I beat myself up for months as I thought it must have been something I did to make WH change so drastically.I think I know better now - it doesn't mean I didn't make mistakes, because I did - who doesn't - having said that, it doesn't justify the bahaviour.

Yeah, I guess I know that deep down, BSFY...

You should - I don't know if you remember my first posts months ago but I was beating myself up over and over again - for opening the business, the spending - and you know what what's important - that I have worked on my mistakes. Now instead of spending the money it's used to pay off the debts,the business has been taken over a few months ago.
And has it made any difference in the way my WH acts - NO!!!

Yeah, I do remember BSFY. Sometimes I guess we all need that kick in the butt, again. Thanks....

You are very welcome I guess I got my butt kicked one too many times by catperson - it finally sunk in