Fitnut,

Dr. Harley recommends that you don't make any life altering decisions until 6 months after D Day.

Hang in there. We're all pulling for you.

Fitnut,

My D-day was about 8 weeks ago. Dude, all I can say is, you are in hell and I know exactly how you feel. There is nothing that can describe or convey what you are feeling. The confusion, the anger, the pain. It's raw. It hurts. It sucks. Big time.

Know that you're in the right place. There are some awesome people here that are going to give you really good advice. SAA will help a lot. Also, remember a few things:

1. Most affairs have very similar symptoms. No matter what you think, this is not a unique situation. It happens again and again. Take heart in that because it means a lot of people have had to deal with exactly what you are going through and there are very real strategies for resolving this as SAA will show. When I first found out about my WWs A I just couldn't relate, it seemed so completely foreign. But then I read SAA and the story so closely paralleled my WWs thinking that it was uncanny - well mostly, nothing in there about pregnancy, but that's a whole nother can of worms.

2. One thing that seems important is understanding the depth of the affair. SAA says that affairs range from the one-night stand variety to the "we're soul mates" pukeathon. In general, the former are easier to resolve than the latter. Mine is the latter, way at the end of the scale. The depth of the affair will help in figuring out the steps necessary to move forward.

3. SAA points out that most affairs die a natural death because of the pure exhaustion of keeping it going. This is one reason why exposure is so critical. You have to let everyone and anyone who even remotely knows your WW in on the situation. If they have any decency at all they will recognize what a horrible thing she has done and possibly try to help you out. Furthermore, exposure forces the WW and OM to work harder at the affair. The harder they have to work, the more of a PITA it is and the faster you may push them to give it up. EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE.

4. Set up some monitoring now. You need to stay on top of the situation, particularly where kids are involved. Waywards can be nutcases (believe me) and will do things that are just absolutely abysmal. You have a better chance of protecting yourself and your family if snooping is in place. SpectorSoft makes a great keylogger. I installed mine only a few weeks ago but i wish I had it in place earlier.

I could keep unloading with advice given my current situation but really the best thing I can say is hang on. it's a brutal ride. One day things will be seemingly going smooth and the next everything's gone to hell. Oh, yeah, one more thing. No matter what you think, no matter how much you trusted your wife in the past you need to accept this reality: she cannot be trusted. Sorry. Right now, the OM is everything to her. She is likely very fogged in and not thinking straight at all. Affairs are built on a foundation of lies and deception and it becomes second nature to waywards. Keep your guard up always - she just can't be trusted right now. At some point in the future that may change. But for now, sorry man, just don't buy anything she throws at you.

Here's my story: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2264116#Post2264116

Also, update your signature. Helps people get a quick of idea of your situation.

Good Luck!

fitnut

update

Who have you exposed besides your children?

How did WW meet the OM?

How close does the OM live to you?

First, let me answer a few of your questions so that maybe you can help me.

1. I exposed her affair to our 3 boys, to my family, and to our Pastor. Her parents are deceased and only 1 sister who she only sees about once a year so she�s probably not much help in this case.

2. OM is a former coworker. My wife is a teacher and OM is a former teacher who left a couple of years ago to start a business. He lives about 20 miles from us. We both live in suburbs of the same city, but on opposite sides.

Now, it was probably not a good idea to read all of the emails that I found, but I did it anyway. I was being consumed by the �what if�s� and finally decided that it would be better to just find out instead of imagining the worst. I plan to talk with her about things, but I don�t trust her right now and figured the emails would at least help me sort out the truth from her lies. I can�t really say it�s helped in fact it�s actually made me angrier as I read through the details. Here�s what I�ve found in the emails.

1. In the beginning, the emails were mostly about teaching gripes with her repeatedly telling him how nice it is to talk to someone who understands her frustrations and him constantly complimenting her on her teaching ability and then eventually his compliments became more personal. It also sounds like they were getting some kind of adrenalin rush from this whole thing. I found repeated references to the excitement of �being bad right under everyone�s unsuspecting noses.�

2. Apparently most of there trysts were in the back of her minivan in various parking lots around town. She even mentions in one email about what a �turn on� it was to hear peoples voices outside the van while they were screwing in the back behind the tinted windows.

3. I haven�t found any evidence yet that he was ever in my house. But, there was one mention of her giving him oral on my back deck while my youngest son and I were watching a football game in the house about a month ago. I know, TMI but this one made me particularly sick.

4. It doesn�t look like they ever used protection. While planning what appeared to be their first physical rendezvous she mentions that he doesn�t need to bring protection and that it�s much better when it�s �natural� anyway.


Here are my questions:

1. Why would a 45 y/o mother of 3, who�s well respected professionally and in the community, start acting like some kind of hormonal teenager.

2. How do you ever get beyond the total disrespect and humiliation to want to work on things? I have been reading a little about Plan A but I�ll have to admit that the last thing I feel like doing is meeting her emotional needs when she�s the one who needs to be groveling and begging me to stay.

3. Finally, I�m not unusually vain, but I�m a decent looking, middle aged guy who is in excellent physical condition. Yet, she chooses to have an affair with a guy whose at least 30 lbs overweight and frankly not particularly attractive. This is kind of embarrassing, but I find myself getting really angry that she would choose someone like this over me. Am I being petty or is this normal?

fitnut, people usually "affair down" in that they have affairs with people who are less intelligent, attractive, etc than their spouses. They are not attracted by looks or character usually, but by things like conversation or admiration. The OP meets some need that was not met in marriage.

What is your wife's reaction to your discovery? Has she agreed to end her affair?

Is the OM married and if so, has his wife been told?

The OM met some top need of hers, such as admiration or conversation. Affairs are very much like narcotics, in that they have a fantasy aspect and are very addictive. It is typical that a mature person acts like a silly teenager while in an affair. They are like in a "fog." Others call them aliens because their personalities are so bizarre.


Plan A is only supposed to be a very short term program until the WS ends her affair. It means meeting her needs without yours being met. If the affair does not end, the next step is Plan B, which is complete separation. Once the affair ends, the WS should engage in marital recovery, or what Dr Harley calls "JUST COMPENSATION" to make it up to the spouse. A WS can never fully recompense the BS for the damage, but the marriage can recover if these steps are followed. Also, the humiliation all belongs to the affairees, not you.


And you probably have a much more solild character. Like I said before, it is typical for affairees to affair down.

FN:

You ask very valid questions.

And until you start treating this like an "illness" instead of thinking that she needs to grovel and prostrate herself before you, you will not get anywhere.

If your WW suddenly took up with illict drugs, and then you found out that she had been doing them for five months, what would you do?

Throw her out? Or try to get her treatment?

Your WW right now is in the throes of another kind of addiction. And you have to be willing to look at it, at least at first, in that manner. Breaking the addiction, and stopping the abuse. If you can get there, you can have an excellent shot at recovering your marriage.

First, buy the book, Surviving an Affair. Right from this website, and while you are at it, buy His Needs, Her Needs, and read that too.

You may need to cut back on your workout regimen for the next three-six months to fix the problems in your marriage.

Sorry to say it, but the majority of the work is going to fall on to you to recover this marriage at first. Your WW's initial reaction doesn't bode well for an easy recovery, but we have seen worse recovered here.

I recommend now, if your not interested in working hard to restore your marriage, then proceed to Plan D. Because its alot easier than recovery. And I understand that you might want to go from Plan A, to Plan B, to Plan D, to Plan FU all in the same day. That is the roller-coaster of your emotions, and your getting to ride it, whether you want to or not.

This is what got your WW to proceed with this guy:

And THAT is what your going to have to overcome. WW will say, "Why didn't you listen before!" And your answer? "Because I didn't realize the effect it was having on you until now"

MB is about changing behaviors to become a better marriage partner. Its horrendous that it took an affair to highlight all the issues that are going to come out in your marriage. But sometimes, that is where the fight starts, and that is where you begin the long march to recovery.

Sorry you have to be here.

LG

I agree with most of what lousygolfer says, although it is somewhat distasteful to me to view addiction type situations as bonafide illnesses.
If your wife says you were not listening to her, as lousy mentions, that may or may not be true. many WSs swwm to have had an expectatin that the BS is clairvoyant. And, many are conflict avoiders. So, the problems were never effectively raised in the first place.
Take care of yourself, here, if possible. Exercise, eat, if you can . same with sleep.
I would definitely recommend you see a divorce lawyer to get information about your options and to stategize s o how to get the most favorable outcome in a divorce. The giving head deal at your house with your kid home,may prove to be very useful in negotiations or at trial.

What was her response to being outed to family members and just being caught over all? Is there contrition, fear, depression. Or is she just matter of fact about it?

Z:

I didn't mean to state that her A was an addiction,


But to treat it like it was, and to address as something that can be beat. An illness, may have a treatment, or not. And you may get an illness thru no fault of your own. But the A? Stepped into with eyes wide open. But the addiction metaphor works for the initial phases of battling the A. Later, its more fighting to recover the person you married, and build a better marriage.

LG

FitNut,

I think at this point you should carefully consider for yourself what you want. Take your time and figure that out. If you want a D, then go for it. If you want you M then follow the plan (no guarantee on that one unfortunately).

I wish I could recommend a methodology for figuring out what route is best for you but I don't know of one.

Well, to say it was an interesting weekend would be an understatement. She has been mostly avoiding me since d-day with a few blowups, normally on my part, over the past week. I really can�t figure out what�s going on in her head. One day she�s sorry about what she�s done and the next day she�s furious at me for �ruining� her relationship with her sons by telling them about all of this. My mood normally swings with hers. When she�s sorry for her actions, I can actually see myself trying to work things out. But, when she starts blaming me for her problems, I just feel like telling her to pack up and hit the door.

I followed the advice from this thread and got back in touch with OMW on Saturday afternoon. From what she told me, I find it hard to believe that the 2 lovebirds have been in contact since d-day. She has everything pretty much locked down on her end with a keylogger on the computer and she actually switched cellphones with her husband. She also has access to the cellphone records for both of their phones. She also had photos of them together from a private investigator she had hired. She was nice enough to send me copies in case I need them should I go to plan D. There was nothing graphic, but she sure would have a hard time explaining in court why she was climbing into the back of a van with this man in the mall parking lot. I also sent OMW copies of the emails I found on my end, many of which were from before she installed the keylogger on their computer.

The WW has apparently been pretty depressed all week. She called into sick at work everyday last week and spent her days mostly moping around the house. She did go back to work yestrday, but she was really ticked when she found out that I had also exposed her affair to a family friend that works with her. Apparently they had a little talk after school and now she�s �so embarrassed that she doesn�t know how she�s going to be able to go to work now.� Somehow her �embarrassment� is my fault. When she got through with her rant last evening, I just calmly told her that the only person to blame for her predicament was herself. After all, she was the one acting like some teenager in heat screwing around all over town in a parked car with another woman�s husband.

This probably didn�t help, but on Saturday, I took her van(which was in my name) and traded it in. First, I couldn�t stand to even look at it after I found out about what they did in it. But, I traded it for a Hyundai Accent and told her that I�d like to see her try to have sex in that tiny little car. I know that was probably over the top, but it sure as heck made me feel better. It was still funny this morning as I watched her try to squeeze her 5ft 11 in frame into that car.

After her little tirade last evening about me exposing to our friend, she calmed down some and actually sat down and ate dinner with me and our youngest son. Neither he nor I mentioned anything about the affair and we actually had a nice family dinner talking mostly about his classes and the possibility of him working for me after school.

After our son left to work on his homework, she and I talked a little about things. It was actually the first time since d-day that we were able to talk without one of us losing it and storming off. She kept telling me how sorry she was about all of this and I think I might actually believe her. She still tries to blame me for how alone she felt Luckily, I had read enough threads on here to know how to respond and I told her that I would accept part of the blame for the state of our marriage, but that I would not accept any responsibility for her affair. I told her that I still wasn�t sure what I wanted to do, but that I wasn�t ready to just throw away 25 years without at least trying to work things out if she was willing to work on it also. I also told her that my one condition was that she have absolutely no contact with OM ever again. She agreed, so I guess we�ll see. My copy of SAA came today so I guess I have some reading to do.

Questions:
1. I still have a lot of questions that I need for her to answer. Is it best to just sit down and talk about them or would it be better to write them down for her and maybe try to cover them a few at a time.
2. I�m not quite sure how to ask this one, but here it goes. I have this growing need to physically reclaim �what is mine.� I know someone mentioned earlier about STD tests. How long does it take to get the results back? And, are these feelings �normal?�
3. Someone on another thread mentioned a NC letter. Where can I find a sample and is this absolutely necessary if she is obviously not in contact with OM anymore?

This is entirely personal to you and should be done the way that suits you. I would prefer to get it all out verbally in one big document dump. This way you can ask questions and get the worst out of the way. This will work if you can control your temper to a degree. The sooner you get it all out there, the faster you can learn to accept it and move forward in your recovery.

The only problem will be if she does what many waywards do and that is to play the weasel and trickle the truth out in order to protect themselves from your anger. BIG [censored] MISTAKE. A BS always knows when he is being spun and will have no peace until it all comes out. That is the way of a slow death, because every tidbit that comes out, puts you BOTH back to Day 1 of recovery and demolishes any chance of regaining trust. So, tell her not to play the weasel, and just suck it up and get it all out in one fell swoop. It will save you both weeks and months of hell.


I dont know the answer to this.


It is VERY NECESSARY. It is a good will gesture to you and the OM's wife. It tells the OM that she is done with the affair and to never contact her again. Any WS who won't do this is not serious about ending the affair. The letter is in the book Surviving an Affair and I think I even posted it earlier on your thread.

here it is.

Absolutely normal.

In the immediate aftermath of discovery, I wanted sex on demand each and every day. It was later explained to me that I was trying desperately to reestablish the boundaries of my M wherin a predator to such will be putting life and limb in jeopardy should they encroch again. It was a point I had to drive home to my WW as well(no pun intended).

The need for STD testing is something that this site does not deal adequetly with. My very discovery of my FWW's A came from a docter who DX me with HPV after 31+ years of M. Pretty devastating to say the least.

HIV testing can only happen with surety after six months of last contact to be true. I don't know the timeline but I'm sure you do.

I now insist that my FWW get a pap smear yearly even though she had a partial hysterectomy at a young age. The danger of HPV and cervical cancer is far greater for a women than the remote danger to a man of penile cancer.

Get tested and insist your WW do the same. It may save her life.

As far as NC:

"My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent."

I do wish you God's blessings,
Jerry

Normally you'd send the "no contact letter" directly to the OM. However, in this situation....shouldn't the NC letter be sent directly to the OMW. Let her share it with her husband when she chooses (she will).

Seems kinda disrespectful to mail or email the letter directly to OM. In the alternative, I guess you could just cc her with an email (thus, sending it to both of them).

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - your "feelings" are normal. A LARGE percentage of recoveries begin with "hysterical bonding". Your sense of manhood has been slighted so it's natural to want to "reclaim" it, but please be aware, her affair wasn't about you. She didn't have this affair AT YOU. She did it to herself and it has no relation to your manliness whatsoever. As a man, YOU define your own masculinity. Your wife has nothing to do with it. Thus, behave accordingly and protect yourself and your family by setting aside such urges until the std tests have been performed.

Fitnut, you have followed great advice given here with good results. Typically, BSs try to find reasons why not to do as suggested here (exposure, snooping, ...).

You and OMW have done a great job and your story is a good example for anyone how MB works. Unfortunately, I found MB months after D-Day and to be honest, I would have acted quite differently then if I had support from here.

You have the chance, use it.

Thanks for all of the responses. It is a huge help to get some prospective from others who have already been through this crap.

We have had a couple of good evenings since my last post. I decided a few days ago to really focus on controlling my anger and just try to be as pleasant as possible around WW. I can already see some positives to my new attitude in just a short time. I remembered an old saying that my Dad always told me, �you can disagree with someone without being disagreeable.� I have tried to use that when we talked and it seems to be working.

We both decided that it would do us a lot of good to try and avoid any relationship/affair talk for a few days. I told her that I had a ton of questions that I needed honest answers to, but that we could deal with those later if she would answer just a few for me. She agreed to try, so I asked her some questions that I knew the answers to(from her emails and my info from OMW) just so I could see if she was ready to be honest with me. She passed the first test, but quite frankly, I�m still not ready to trust her completely.

First, I asked her if they used protection when they were intimate. She said no, which was what I had already learned from her emails. This opened the door to tell he that this meant that before we could even consider being intimate again that she would have to have a full battery of STD tests. This apparently really hit home as the tears began to flow and she just nodded her agreement without ever looking at me.

Next, I asked her if he was ever in my home. Again she was honest to the best of my knowledge. She said no, but she did offer the info about them being together one night on the pool deck in the back yard. I have no proof that this isn�t the whole truth, but I�m still struggling with believing this one.

Finally, I asked her about when she last had contact of any kind with OM and what was the nature of that contact. Her answer cleared up a question from d-day when she was supposed to leave on Thursday evening for a long weekend getaway with some girlfriends, but I had found a local transaction on her credit card from Friday morning. She admitted to driving up late to meet her girlfriends after spending the night with OM in a local motel. I have to believe she was being honest since I had never mentioned to her that I saw that credit card transaction. She also admitted that he called her on that Saturday that she was away to warn her that his wife had confronted him and that she should be prepared in case his wife had contacted me. She also admitted to trying to contact him a couple of times immediately after I confronted her. She claims he told her that it was over and that he couldn�t do this anymore. I don�t know if this is all true or not, but she was at least honest about their last weekend before d-day with no prompting.

I have a lot more questions, but I feel a little better after she answered these 3 honestly. I really want to believe her, but I also feel like I�m the world�s biggest sucker if I do. She did agree to give me all of her passwords, including her school email, and to change her cell phone number to prevent him from contacting her. I guess that�s at least a start. She did follow through with these promises and gave me all of the passwords yesterday and I went and had her cell phone number changed today. She has agreed to sit down on Saturday mornings to answer my affair questions. For my part, I promised to save my questions for Saturdays instead of just hammering her with them every day.

I guess I�m at least going to give this a try. I know in my mind that this is completely out of character for her. I also know that we have had a lot of good years together and that I would always wonder �what if� if I didn�t at least try. But, to be completely honest, there�s still a huge part of me that�s screaming just throw her out and move on. I�m not really doing plan A, because I�m just not quite ready for that. But, I thought I would try to be pleasant and avoid the angry outbursts over the next few days to let her know that I am serious about trying to work things out. I even asked her out on a �date� for tomorrow night. I think I really caught her off guard, but she did agree to go. I have reservations at her favorite restaurant and I thought that after dinner if things go well that we may go for coffee and a walk in a little downtown park that is quite popular around here.