Thanks ML.

I don't think it is the travel that brought this on. H had been feeling low for about a momth (his description). Earlier this month, the keylogger identified that he had gone to porn sites on the 16th and 19th. This was something he had agreed not to be doing. He went to his regular PTSD group on the 20th and was THE topic of discussion there. At the same time, his mother had had a mild stroke and was released from the rehab center on the 27th. SIL was staying with her for a few days. Then someone needed to stay with MIL for a couple of weeks to ensure everything was set for home health care to take over. H went because he 1) had not seen mother since holidays of 2007 (which by the way was smack in the middle of his A - not sure if triggers from that play into this) and 2) he is retired and had the available time. 3) I thought this was a way he could feel valued and admired - both by family and me (man, that really backfired). I did not travel with him because DS15 is in school in a cold place on the east coast and MIL lives in pacific northwest.

I think the posters that talked about depression may have hit on something. Will post more in a little bit. DS15 needs to be picked up from after-school activities. Have hardly started my plan B/D letter yet - have some notes. I told H in a phone call today that it would be coming.

AM

I have no intent of offering H a timeline. I plan on finalizing my plan B/D letter, sending it H via email and then calling him to tell him I have completed it. If he does not chose to meet the conditions of return, I will ask him for an intermediary contact that can go between us for D. I think one of his brothers might be a good candidate. I am thinking of giving him until tomorrow to answer me. Not sure if that is good. What do you all think?????

Yes, I understand the translation of the wayward speak. Thanks to MB, I recognized that some of the things he was saying were right out of the wayward script. So, yesterday, I asked him if he had contact with OW. That is when he admitted to sending her an email last Sunday. I never would have asked that question if I had not been reading MB for the past 18 months. Thanks to all.

AM

I read Dr. Dobson's book right after D-day at the recommendation of my then IC (before we moved). At that time, I had difficulty applying the principles in it because H and I were already separated by military deployment. I could not understand then how applying plan B at that time would work. Now is a different story, since H and I have been living together - up until last Friday when he left to take care of MIL. Right now, he has a return ticket for Nov 14. We will see if that ticket gets used or not.

AM

AM,

So sorry to hear this. I have been where you are and it stinks. At our age, this is scary stuff so I know how you feel.

I agree that Plan B is in order, but don't give him a warning. Do it and go dark. Do it right the first time. I did not and I will be divorced in two weeks.

Bea16,

I know H has had problems with depression, worsening since his first deployment to Iraq in 2003. He was diagnosed PTSD from that deployment as well as a tramatic brain injury (TBI) from two vehicle accidents during convoy operations in April 2003. I guess Plan B is not really a good description for what I am doing. I am offering the choice for H to return home on certain conditions (intensive therapy is one of them) and D. If he chooses to move to OW's city and rekindle the A, that is plan D for me. And according to OWH in conversation yesterday, H is welcome to OW. He is fed up with her lying over everything, past and present.

One of the difficulties is teasing out the effects of the PTSD, TBI and depression/withdrawal after an A. H was very, very depressed during the A and before discovery. He described it as being "lost" and was relieved by discovery. I had no idea what was wrong - thought it was stress at work and master level courses that he was taking, as well as commuting as often as he could between Atlanta (where he was assigned) and Richmond (where DS15 and I were living and I had been assigned). This time, H says he started a few weeks ago. Once again, I really underestimated the severity. H was assuring me that he was ok, but really was not. don't have to tell you that O&H has been a MAJOR issue for us since D-day. Even yesterday, an admission of another lie came out. This has been going on for the entire 17 months, although the bulk of it came spewing out the day before a polygraph at the end of June. I thought then (after I processed all the additional garbage that was the end of it). Nope.

AM

All,

Your comments really warm me and give me strength. Hopefully, I answered all the questions about current status. If not, ask me again.

Here is what I have come up with so far:

If H wants to return to the marriage, he must:
1) return home as scheduled on the 14th. He told me today that he had been offered a position in DC and asked me what I thought. I said that if we divorce, he could go anywhere he wants and take any job he wants. Otherwise, we will be right where we started when we got into this mess - him deploying/being away from home for 3 and 1/2 years out of 6.

2. Commit 100% to the marriage. Yesterday, H said that he had been holding back. For the past 17 months, I thought he had been attempting recovery, but looking back now as we worked through the subcourses, there were little signs that he wasn't. This one is sort of wishy-washy, since I don't really have an empirical measure for it. But some of the other things that follow support this one - maybe subset of this one.

3. Attend an MB weekend. The next one is at the end of Jan. Commit to doing all the assigned tasks at the weekend and for the followup counseling. Follow MB concepts; review on the periodic schedule set up by the MB coaching staff.

4. Continue attending the PTSD support group.

5. Add additional counseling to address the addiction issues of viewing porn (see post from last week) and additction to OW.

6. Persue anti-depressants with Primary Care Physician.

7. Continue transparency with my access to phone, computer (I have passwords and checked whenever the mood suited me. It was an email in his inbox that I read yesterday that let me know all this was going on). Do no erase any email correspondence. (I will continue the keylogger - but he wrote the emails from MIL house and not our home).

8. Never contact OW again under any circumstances.

9. OTHERS?????

If he choses not to accept above, I will persue with D. I think NY is a fault state and I will charge adultery and abandonment. Yesterday. he suggested that he could come home to pick up one car and some of his things. I said, "No way. If he does not return to the M, I never want to see or talk with him again. I do not want to be his friend or confident. H suggested we could be civil to each other, but I think I would rather just cross the street. I would want for us to agree on an intermediary and work the logisitics of the D through IM.

OK, thoughts? things I am off base on? left out????

I am off to compose a loving introduction to this. Will be hard - love bank is overdrawn big time....

AM

AM,
If your knucklehead, bonehead H chooses Plan D, I hope there is some way to further harm OW's military career. You know I am a vindictive b................

GY

If this concept of plan B is going to be new to him, he is not going to be able to make a "snap" descision.

Give him time to really think this through. Time without YOU meeting his needs, spending time on yours.

You do not want him coming home out of fear of being alone. You deserve better than that.

Good Luck. I do not think this situation is as dark as you say.

BC

Thanks for the comments. They are good points.

H is familar with MB because we have read the books and were about 1/2 way through the home study course. It had been difficult to work on the subcourses, and of course, H admitted that he had not been giving 100 percent to the work. He would agree to things such as in the affection subcourse, he agreed to write me a love note twice a week (his idea,not mine, but I liked it) and bring me flowers once a month. He did not follow through until it became an issue when we went back and re-evaulated the courses. His lack of follow through became a love buster for me.

My intent with this letter is to send it to him via email, phone him to tell him it is there and then wair. I was thinking of asking him to reply to me by Sat. That will give him two days to mull over what he really wants. In the meantime, I will not talk or email him and he is away at MIL's house so not meeting his ENs while he mulls things over should not be too hard. I am not sure if a couple of days is really long enough. But with all of H's military deployments, he has a good understanding of what it means to be without his ENs met - that it what got us into this mess. I will be really busy. With the flu hitting the schools hard, I have been asked to substitute teach the next couple of days. Biggest challenge will be finding time to get to the gym - an absolute must.

We spoke on the phone today. He sounded like a different person. Yesterday, he spouted all kinds of wayward talk and his speech was not normal (can't put my finger in it, but sort of monotone, without inflection - I think that;s close). Today, he talked about the effects of addiction and how he was looking for that fantasy "feeling". I think Bea16 really hit on something about depression and using the A or thoughts of the A being a "short term fix for the depression:.

Let me know if you think I am really off base with my thinking.

AM

"If your knucklehead, bonehead H chooses Plan D, I hope there is some way to further harm OW's military career. You know I am a vindictive b................"

Well, if we go to Plan D, I am pretty sure that NY is a fault state and I will definitely name OW. I have a copy of H's military punishment. Last night when we talked DS21 in Iraq wanted to call her command. But she has already received military punishment for the A - loss of 1/2 mo pay for two months, bad evaluation, letter of reprimand from a General officer.

One of the missing posts from last summer had something to the effect of "If during a tornado a house should happen to fall on OW's house, I would happily sing 'Ding, dong, the witch is dead' in my best munchkin impersonation voice" And I would not feel the LEAST bit vindictive about it.

OW is irrelevant, a mere person occupying space on the same planet as I am.

AM

One more thing to add to the list:

He must do the heavy lifting here - schedule the sessions with Steve; schedule the marriagebuilder weekend, flights, hotel, accommodations.

He's had no investment in this recovery, therefore nothing to lose.

If he's going to come back, he has to invest in the marriage enough to value it.

Kayla,

This is good. It was so true that I was the one pushing and dragging us to recovery. I had scheduled the MC. I had bought the books and the MB home study program. I was the one suggesting that we work on the sub-courses. H worked on the courses but then did not follow through. He was not totally invested in recovery and was keeping a little place inside where he could go to get warm and fuzzy.

I wish I would have included your comments. I sent the letter last night before I went to bed.

Slept really well again. I am amazed by this.
Tuesday, before i went to sleep or while I was sleeping, I LET this all go. I gave it all to G-d. I recognize that H makes his own choices and I am and will be just fine with or without him. People say this on the forums and I heard it, but did not really understand/believe it until Tues.

It is strange, because on Tues I talked to SIL (BIL's wife). About 10 years ago, there was infidelity in their M. BIL left the house twice, once for a few weeks and later for a few months. Our family had no clue it happened until our own D-day. SIL told me that one evening about 5 mos into the second separation, she let everything go and after that she knew everything would be fine. I await the revealing of G-d's plan for me.

AM

Wowzer. I woke up this morning with a real need to check my email. This was the message I received this morning from OW.

"BS
I want to express my deepest heart felt apology for the pain and hurt I have caused. My actions were inexcusable. I hope that you can find in your soul a way to forgive me for what I have done to you and your family. I continue to strive to earn OWH's trust as well and hope for his forgiveness someday. I ask that you accept this heart felt apology, I'm truly sorry for the damage that I have done, and the pain that I have caused. I pray you regain the peace and love you and your family deserve.
OW"

Right now, I am amazed and at peace. The feelings of hatred that had me in their grip are gone. Just like that.

AM

AM,

Your last few posts have been encouraging. The e-mail from OW is encouraging too, although I expected her to say something about NC with your H. From your reaction, I take it you think she's sincere.

As to your H's mental state, as you know, you're dealing with something way beyond normal depression. My H has suffered from "normal" depression for most of his life. The cycles would come and go. The depression he experienced which led to the A was vastly more intense that it had ever been before. He became someone I didn't recognize. Actually, I should say he became many people I didn't recognize. I don't mean that he had a multiple personality disorder, it was just that his behavior was so different, so extreme and so variable. People who knew him well but saw him infrequently could instantly tell that something was very wrong with him.

My conclusion is that he was suffering from a mid-life crisis which went from low-level feelings of doubt and dissatisfaction to a full nuclear meltdown based on a variety of factors -- nasty withdrawal from an anti-depressant, addition of adhd meds that made him somewhat manic (although he still takes them now with no negative effects), physical problems including a very bad back, hair loss due to treatments for the back problem (his hair used to be way too important to him), obsessive planning for his 30th high school reunion, lots of travel away from home to follow his favorite high school band which was touring at the time, etc.

Your H's PTSD and the TBI make your situation very complicated and difficult. You will both need the best professional help you can find. One of your conditions is that H needs to see his primary care doctor for anti-depressants. I would strongly urge you to find someone who specializes in treating PTSD. Can the military or the VA help you find the right person?

As I indicated before, you will need to educate yourself, watch him like a hawk and guide his care. You can't expect him to take the initiative. People who are depressed just can't muster the insight and strength to lead that process. To them, their feelings are perfectly normal and valid. Your H can point to any number of reasons why he should feel bad. Given that he now recognizes that he's depressed, he's probably been operating at a lower level of depression for some time now, but something kicked it into a higher gear recently. For my H, his depression has to be pretty bad before he notices it. I've been watching him go through this for so long that I can tell immediately.

I think you're wise to realize that you can't do a typical Plan B with him. Before you make any decisions about your M, you need to see what he's like when he's mentally healthy. He needs you to help get him there, and I suspect it's going to be a long, difficult journey.

Think of it this way, if your H was physically injured and had lost his mobility, you wouldn't expect him to be able to arrange for his care and therapy by himself. You would fully participate because you could easily see how much help he needed and you could see how his physical injury was limiting his ability to help himself. Mental illness is so much harder to address. It's difficult for both the depressed person and the spouse to assess the true condition. In a marital relationship, the depression takes a huge toll and usually causes the healthy spouse to withdraw in order to gain protection from the LB's. Picking the right medication can be hit or miss and takes a while to kick in.

One last thought about the TBI. My own father suffered from depression for years. He always refused to get help and it led to the breakdown of both his career and his second M. Nine years ago he had a severe bleed which he barely survived. The damage from that and a later car accident left permanent brain damage. The weird thing is, however, that he's no longer depressed. He's almost always happy, he's very social and very easy to deal with. The downside is that he's lost his sense of smell, he needs a walker because his balance is so bad, he cannot process complex information, he cannot take initiative for his own care except for a few basics.

I don't know if this helps, but given your situation, it just doesn't seem like the normal MB strategy will get you where you need to go.

Bea

AM, you said your H was retired. Does that mean he doesn't work any more, anywhere? What does he do all day?

AM, checking in with you today. Wondering if OW sent an email to your H also?

Your right about turning it over to God. When I manage to do that it sets you free. You know you don't have any control but you have no need to.

You and your family are in my prayers.

AM,
If I haven't put it in print before---Bea is one smart cookie. She always gives the best advice, doesn't she?

Hugs,
GY

I made my FWH sell "The Car". We now have a nice, new one with the same terms as the old one, and no triggers. He gave me a really nice pea coat for Christmas. It's still hanging in the hall closet - I haven't made up my mind yet whether to Goodwill it or keep it, but cold weather's coming and I'd like to get off the fence. Funny, what we can live with and what we can't.

Hope, thanks for checking in. No, OW did not send a copy of this morning's email to H. On Tuesday she send the one with the subject line Happy? to both of us. The apology she sent only to me. I have not yet responded because I am not sure what to say.

Goldenyears, you are so right. Bea is one smart person and has said many things for me to think about. These were some of the things I had thought about before. If H had lost an arm or leg instead of having depression, PTSD and TBI, would I be responding the same way? He is so, so different from the person I knew before he deployed in 2003. At the same time, I cannot accept him contacting the OW. Many of his changes seemed to occur in the middle of the A, so how much is A, how much PTSD, how much TBI? We have talked about this extensively in counseling and not really found an answer.

Current status today. H has been proceeding with his plan to take another deployment. To me that means he plans to use me as his back up plan. I cannot accept being the choice of last resort.

I have been staying so busy that I really have not had time to think much about this stuff at all. It sorts of feels like all the other times he was gone on military deployment.

AM

Lots going on. H has sounded pretty confused the last few days. He spoke with his PTSD group counselor yesterday. The main question C asked was, "Where did H want to be in the future, in 4 years, 6 years etc?" H said that he wanted to be with the family. However, he does not feel certain that he would not hurt the family again in the future. He regrets the person he has become. We still have love for each other, but I don't know where our M will go. I am noto in Plan B - guess I should be, but have not been able to carry it off.

I responded back to OW email. I do think she was sincere. I thanked her for sending it, that it meant a great deal to me to receive it and that I have hope for all of us for future peace.

I am doing ok. I don't feel as though I am operating from a place of fear anymore and regardless of what happens, I will be fine, maybe even fantastic. I met with IC yesterday. It took me more than half the session just to update her on what was going on. All in all, a good session.

After D-day, I was afraid of everything (not like the folks on the other post who feel invincible). Last night, DS15 asked me to take him and friend to school's football playoffs. First thing I did was back our SUV down our narrow, steep driveway (was always worried about dinging it up backing it down the driveway, especially when it is a little icy); then we drove 2+ hours each way during snow on icy roads. I truly enjoyed watching the game sitting by myself (only bad part was our team lost). I KNOW I am ok and will be ok. Life is good and whatever the plan for me is, I know it will be good.

AM