My threads/posts have been lost due to the Forum Problem. I'm re-posting "my story".

I discovered that my WW was having an EA on Facebook with an old high school mate on 6/10/09 (my dday). She discovered FB about eight months prior to dday and had been reconnecting with many old friends from college/high school. My WW is somewhat reclusive, so I thought this was a great outlet for her.

From the beginning I noticed that she often chatted with a male friend. I asked her about this, but of course she said they were just friends. I actually do believe they were "just friends" during the first several months.

During the last several months I started to get suspicious. Every time I went near the PC when she was on FB she would minimize the screen or turn the screen for privacy. hmmmmm. Well, FB started to consume her life and she was not paying much attention to me or our four children. We had several fights/discussions about this. Clue number two; our sex life had diminished and became unsatisfying for both of us.

I finally decided to snoop. I felt horrible doing it because I trusted (notice past tense) my wife. OMG WTF...R U Fking kidding me. Yes, my W was having an A right in front of me and our four kids. UGH, sick to my stomach.

Well D-day was 6/10/09. On dday I gave her my wedding ring and told her she broke my heart. She confessed, but said it was "not what I think". She said their friendship just started to go too far. Well, from snooping, I found out she said "I love you" to him more times in a few days than to me in two years. She said they met in person twice at a park to talk. She said they hugged and kissed, but nothing more. So the EA did turn into a PA. In addition, WW and OM had plans to meet for an "evening" where she said she was not planning to be home until 1am. I'm sure we all know what was going to happen on that date. I know what you are all going to say...trickle truth, they probably already had sex, etc. Maybe so, maybe not�IDC. The part that kills me is that she betrayed me and our children and gave her love to another man.

On dday I went to my brother's house and drank myself half to death. I was delirious with rage, sadness and confusion. My bro was great and just let me vent and made sure I didn't kill myself. The next day friends got me to a doctor and I was prescribed anti-anxiety meds. I was/am a real mess. I stayed away from house for a few days and wallowed in self-pity. It was very hard to be away from my kids even for just a few days. My WW and I talked and I moved back home.

Some back story; we have been under financial stress and I have been working many hours. My wife is a stay-at-home mom and tends to the house and our four children.

11/6/09, Update:
* From conversations with WW, I find out that OM is also a BS and heading towards D. My WW was the "shoulder to cry on" and his support system.
* My WW initiated NC on dday (6/10/09) and has stayed true.
* We have been in MC since week after dday.
* I feel like my WW has not "really" apologized.
* WW does not openly show signs of remorse.
* WW has not initiated much towards R or tried to learn how to help me.

Remorse?

Well, I reposted my story above so ppl will understand my sitch when responding.

My WW is much nicer to me and I think she is trying in her own way to R, however it just doesn't seem like enough to me.

I WANT AN APOLOGY! - A real apology about what she is sorry for. I don't want the "I'm sorry" crap I got on dday. I want to see that teared up "I can't believe I was so stupid that I....[and on and on...long sincere apology].

I WANT REMORSE! - I want WW to really express to me that she understands my pain and is willing to do whatever it takes to help me get through this.

Now, it seems that Dr. Harley says to not expect remorse and that it is not necessary to R. I call BS on this. How do I forgive someone who has caused soooo much pain to me who can't even express to me that they understand how selfish and stupid it was and how sorry they are? I'm 5 months out from dday and WW and I are doing OK, I just don't see a long-term R if there is now remorse.

What do you think?

I agree with you. There needs to be remorse, or there can be no recovery. If you doubt it, read the thread by yllanoitomE and his wife's thread as well. They are a year past DDay, with no recovery. H's failure to own his mistakes is a big hold up.

I am so sorry to see you here. My story is very similar in that my WH had affair with a high school girl friend 2000 miles away. He has made our lives miserable for the last year, in that I thought that contact had stopped but acutally hadn't.

the vets here can give you advise on what to do next. I am still in the middle of my mess, so I am not sure I am the best to give advise.

I am sure you will hear that you need to expose this affair. Is the OW married? Call her husband. That is the big mistake I made last fall, I did not expose. And tell your kids. My WH is still very upset that I did this, but I am so glad I did.

My WH showed little remorse as well, and still hasn't. He makes very little effort to see our girls, and still seems to be in the self pity mode. I have moved to Plan B, where I have totally cut of contact with him.

You will get lots of great advise here. I pray that things will work out for you.

It sounds to me like you are "treading water," just like me. This can go on for YEARS if you let it. I don't advise it, though. You will lose all your love for your wife.

I AM losing love for my wife day-by-day. Everyday she does not show remorse or offer that apology or initiate affection my love fades just a little more.

TMI warning: We have not had sex in 5 months...and this kills me too. Anyway, our MC called us on this 2 days ago. MC basically said to go "do it" even if it's awkward for us at first.

Read everything on this site. It will take more than remorse and an apology to get your M back on track. She is not your wife anymore. She is a wayward and all they do is lie and find ways to continue the A.

You need to expose. Is the OM married? Call his wife. Tell your friends and family. Tell your children. Take away the fantasy and expose this to the light. There will be some vets on here soon even though the weekends tend to be slow.

DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOUSE.

OM finalized D last month (I saw court docs). OM used WW as his support during his WWs affair (ironic eh?). My WW has not had contact w/ OM since dday (99% sure of this). With NC, I don't see point of further exposure. My WW has confided in her BFF and her mother, which shows me she is interested in working towards R. Again, I just don't understand why she can't communicate remorse or put more effort towards R.

Well, I am going on a "date" with WW tonight. Of course, I initiated this, but at least it will be some time alone for us.

SP,
I don't know why some WS don't show remorse. I saw the most remorse in my WS the second year of R. Our M is at its best and this is when he showed the most remorse. I believe what Harley writes about - when you are meeting each other's top emotional needs and both (and I stress both) are working at making each other (everyday) happy instead of unhappy, you will R and have love again. I know this was the case for me. Have you purchased any of the Harley books? Also if you like Harley's principle you can ask your MC if he will work with them. I know my MC did but at the time I didn't know about Harley or this site. You're hitting the six month mark after Dday - sometimes that is the worst period for a BS - it was for me. The fact that you are not SF is also clouding your view of your M. I'd say if you have a spouse who is willing to R the M and is working with you and a MC - that is really a good thing. There are many BS here who have to work really hard to get the WS open to Rg their M. You might want to print the below and give it to your WS. It is Harley's response to a woman who cheated on her husband (and what it takes to recover a M).

Harley's response to WW

Gg

Thanks to all that have already responded.

I have read Surviving an Affair. I've also read other books that have been helpful. I am trying to fulfill my WWs needs. It is difficult sometimes when you are so hurt, but I am trying.

My WW will not read any self-help books on As or M. IDK why. She says she does what she "feels" is right...OK, whatever. I think that's what got us in this mess in the first place. My WW feels that MC is all that we need (i.e. no books or websites).

How do you know there is not contact? Has your WW agreed to be 100% transparent, allowing you access to passwords, cell records, etc? accounting for all of her time? Do you have a keylogger on the computer? If I remember correctly from the first time you posted here, you said she would not give up FB, is that still correct?

Some WS do take a while to show remorse but OTOH that could also be a sign of continued contact...

I am still monitoring PC use. WW is transparent and accounting for time. Yes, she is on fb with some boundaries that we have set up...and again, I monitor.

Have you probed her on what she's afraid of from books and web sites? I would still print out the article and give it to her. You have to understand something - if you don't have a requirement for R your M why should she. Harley principles have worked. If you let your lying decieving BS control your R youR bound for a false R. You should read up on Plan A&B. There are many BS who have returned here because of false recoveries - don't be one of them. She cheated on you - DOESN'T IT MATTER WHAT YOU WANT AND NEED?

Plan A&B
Plan A & Plan B

IMO you need to close her FB account. There are ways to have 'friends' on there without others being able to see them, or her communication with them.
Do you have all of her passwords, access to cell phone & records, bank statements, email accounts? Have you googled her name to see what comes up? She could be on another social site. Sounds to me like something is still going on. Have you installed a keylogger on her computer? She's just being too...accomodating, for a wayward, while not really giving anything up. Something smells fishy.
Exposure isn't done just to expose the A - it's also a tool to assemble support (in the way of other people) who can help you monitor the activities of the waywards so the A doesn't resume. I would tell the OM's ex anyway.
Her unwillingness to be remorseful is telling.

Sucker punched,

I think remember more of your story. You could also tell she still visited his profile, right?

It is not optional for her to keep FB if you two want to R.
a) it will keep her triggered&foggy
b) this is what led to her A to begin with so this is like leaving the door wide open for the A to rekindle
c) FB is a terrible idea for a WS or anyone with bad boundaries because it's just an invitation for another A

No NC letter was ever sent, right? This is a very good test to see if the WS is serious about recommiting to the marriage and shutting the door on the A/OP.

It is very easy to pooh-pooh the MB rules for recovery, but honestly, the people we see come back here and haven't seen much progress are the ones who haven't followed the steps ~ exposure, 100% NC(if she is still on FB, I don't feel you have this established yet), NC letter, etc.

I know this isn't what you want to hear but your W still sounds very wayward...I think you are in for "more of the same" = no recovery unless you start expecting more from her.

I agree with Susie Q. There seem to be alot of waywrds who continue to engage in what I call passive contact. If she googles him, that is contact. If she looks at his page, that is contact. It doesn't matter if she communicates WITH him; she is still "seeing" him. If I went and goggled OM, that would be breaking NC.

I am not one who thinks fb is inherently evil, but if it was the avenue for her A, it probably needs to go.

Goodness, sorry to hear about your run-in with FB. BUT that's almost EXACTLY what happened to me. My WH IN FRONT OF US AND THE KIDS just acted like we weren't even around.Problem is, he refused to admit any wrongdoing eventhough I had PROOF that he had plans to meet the OW. He still hasn't admitted it. I left like you did but took the kids with me but then came back after 4 days.And although we are working on it,he claims that he has done nothing inappropriate with any woman. I had pulled phone records and had proof but he claims his phone is broken or something because he hasn't called or texted ANYONE. He's being super nice since we got back and he doesn't touch the computer at home,yet he is still trying to find out what all proof I do have. To me, he will always be guilty. Its sickening and heartbreaking. I am not sure what to do from this point on. I would like to think its over,but what's to say he hasn't found another way to contact her? For now I am praying and trying to be everything he needs so maybe he won't look to her, yet, she's cut from a different cloth than I am. She' racey, trashy, partying, and wealthy. I am a professional writer and editor, serious, emotionally connected with people, I am a Christian and I don't approve of the things she does approve of. I can't compete with her/his past lives. I am just not the same as she is. To me,what she has to offer is dangerous. She can offer fun, no kids, no responsibilities, financial relief, and a sense of "its ok" because she allows EVERYTHING around her kids. I will pray for you and that we both know what to expect next. Its hard when its an EA I think because there is so much more involved than just sex.
Good luck to you.
Oh, your time period almost matched mine too! Weird.

Deedee

When I read all this it just breaks my heart. I wish so people could just nourih their marriage but it seems our spouces choose otherwise. If we all followed what our Lord wanted us to we would be fulfilled. I am in the process of not knowing. My wife has told me I love you but am not in love with you. And dont feel likme a wife should toward a husband. She spends alot of time talking to male "friends" on facebook and yahoo. She has admitted to telling them about personal issues, and says their just friends, and no emotional attachments. I have been told we cant work on us as long as she has attachment and her listening needs being met online. She has said wanted a divorce. But has agreed to a seperation after Christmas. She says she needs to find herself before she knows if she can love me again. You can read my post to get background in surviving an affair, even though I dont know to call it an affair yet. She has depression problems and I was an addict for 4 years that led her to feel the way she does about me know. But Im here for her now, and she doesnt necessarily want me to be. We have 2 kids 12 and 3. I dont know what to do or where to look. Im so lost.

This makes sense thanks for your input.

Yes, I agree with this and that is why I am agonized over it.

Yep, she has visited OMs pic on FB from time to time...argh.

Your advice makes sense. I have heard these suggestions before (many times). I'm trying to figure out why I can't follow them. Of course I am afraid of the outcome or causing more disharmony in our relationship. I know that really doesn't make sense, because my pent up frustrations will end up causing the most disharmony...and erode my love for WW. I think the second reason I have a hard time following advice is b/c MC is not pushing these ideas. I think I'm going to talk to MC about our overall R strategy and suggest Dr. Harley's principles.

Sorry for your situations DD and Fred...This does just suck. Be good to yourselves.

Update:
Well, we had an "interesting" weekend. We go on a date...see a movie...go by the local brewery after for drinks. WW suggests we walk down to another bar/restaurant. We walk in the door and guess who we see...YEP, THE f***ING OM. It took me a few seconds (which seemed like minutes) to process the situation. I start to recognize him and then I notice he is wearing a nametag that clearly states his name. I am in complete shock. He is obviously unnerved as I am starring at him with what I can only imagine were eyes of fury. The moment was just completely surreal. Anyway, I felt like I'm in the Terminator movie...you know when he has the pop-down screen of possible reactions to a situation. My pop-down screen included: 1) Calmly walk over to OM and proceed to kick his [censored], 2) Lash out at him verbally and call him the POS !@#$ !@##$ $#@! that he is, or 3) Walk away.

Well, #1 would have satisfied my manhood (which has been reduced to zero lately), but I went with #3. I was livid. I couldn't talk to my WW the rest of that night. She was very upset too and said how sorry she was and that she didn't know he would be there. Strange thing is, I think she did know he would be there. This was OMs high school reunion and I know my WW knew about the reunion...sigh. But, why would she take me to a place that he would be at? She did look genuinely surprised and upset so maybe I'm reading too much into this. The date was actually going great before that...what a way to end.

Anyway, the next morning WW is very sorry, hugs me and is all teared up. Her apology did make me feel much better. It actually felt sincere and kinda like remorse...hell idk.

Next incident. I see from keylogger that WW says to BFF (day after above incident) something like: "I called OM and it did not go well. He is freaked out that (BS) is watching us. The phone died, but I (WW) don't think I'm going to call him again"

What to do now? I'm thinking of doing the following and would like some advice. I want complete honesty from my WW and I want to give her complete honesty. I will disclose that I am monitoring her PC use. I will tell that I know of all the breaks in NC (view fb pic, getting updates on OMs well-being from 3rd parties, and the above chat about phone contact). I will say that I NEED the complete truth about all past contact with OM. I will tell her that fb is not healthy to our R and as a condition of R I need her to delete the account. Also, should I do this in MC session?

Advice and thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

Hi, I just started reading your thread.

I would suggest not giving her complete honesty in that area, as you have every right to withhold how you are tracking her. My WH and I are about 6 weeks into R and I still haven't told him about how I gathered my evidence, I told him I would let him know maybe one year later if I truly felt safe. Besides, once she knows how you are tracking her, she may find other ways to go further underground and you would never know.

The BFF sounds like an affair enabler? I'd think seriously about asking for NC with the BFF.