Do I expose to my kids too? I know SAA says they need to know they aren't the cause of the tension in the house. But I don't want to turn them against her. My S11 is asking a lot of questions about whats going on, why is everyone so stressed, etc. He gets a lot of the crap from her before I get home to. Poor kid can't catch a break sometimes.

Dude,

By making that call you are being PRO-ACTIVE rather than..a..what...kinda milque toast whiney boy??

It's so frustrating because you can't DO anything. Well here you are at least DOING something.

And we bet you a dollar to a doughnut that either your WW is lying to you or the OM is lying to your WW...because that is what adulterers do.....they lie, fib, tell un-truths.

And of course your WW is an adulterer. She is emotionally distancing herself from you. Totally infatuated with this low life, fantasizing about the low life all the time, etc. An emotional affair. Where the emotion, intimacy, tenderness, camaderey and attention is focused AWAY FROM YOU AND ONTO ANOTHER.

The ONLY way to UNFOG your WW is for her to not have any contact with the low life any more and withdraw from him, like a crack addict from the crack pipe, or an alchoholic from the bottle.

And it won't be a big strike against you, is will be a lost battle or skirmish in the war for YOUR MARRIAGE!!

IMHO

kirk

Read this post from Dr Harley yesterday... Telling the kids

The children need to know that WW is dating the OM. That married people do not have "boy friends" or "girl friends".

PH,

I'm 9 weeks into the hell that is my WWs affair. Things aren't going all that well but I can tell you this one thing: this is not some minor argument or simple marital issue. YOUR WIFE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR. Whether physical or not, she is being unfaithful. I think because of the severe emotional trauma BS tend to erect barriers that prevent us from seeing or feeling the full reality of the situation. But don't be fooled - this is a very real battle for your WWs soul.

You talked about a letter about God's plan. Satan has his eyes on your wife and is going to use her and the OM to destroy your family. Now is not the time for weakness. It is a time to stand and fight. Not with anger. Not with bitterness. Not with yelling and screaming. That won't work and WILL drive her away. Instead, you need to follow the advice you are getting here already: start with Plan A.

Plan A means that you SHOW love as much as possible but you don't go around talking about love, about the relationship, etc. Your WW is delusional right now. Relationship talk won't work. Instead, you need to show love in other ways. And don't expect ANYTHING in return. In fact, expect to be criticized. This is unconditional love. This is charity - the pure love of Christ. It's hard, really, really hard.

Plan A also means doing what you can to end the affair without resorting to LBs. Do your best to bring your WW back into your family. Go on walks. Go out. Do things she enjoys. Try to keep her away from the OM whenever possible.

Second, do you have access to your wife's computer? Have you done any snooping yet? If you haven't already, get a keylogger to get access to e-mail accounts, Facebook, etc. This is going to give you a good idea of the depth of the affair and also whether or not contact is continuing. It will also hurt. You're going to read things you never wanted to know. Be prepared. And yes, this is sneaky but it is the RIGHT THING to do. Knowledge is power and you need every advantage you can get.

Also, have you looked into counseling? We don't use Dr. Harley but one specific to our religion (LDS) and they fully support healing of a marriage. Watch out for counselors that will encourage your wife to separate or feed her other nonsense.

The fact that she has said she wants to come back is a good start. Use that as your foundation then build on it.

Also remember that your WW is not likely to be trusted right now. I think it may depend upon the depth of the affair but as someone pointed out affairs ARE addictions - same chemical response. And if your wife is addicted then she is going to do anything to get that next fix. And she will lie and deceive to do it. That's why NC is so critical - it's the only way to end the addiction.

Good luck, man. This will be the very worst thing you will ever go through. Use it as a time to draw closer to God and to your kids and strengthen yourself. You will find that you are a WHOLE LOT stronger than you ever believed.

Her retort will be that god wants her to be happy and he told her so. There's even verses waywards use to prove their point. They just know they are pre-forgiven and can do whatever they want with no fear of retribution.

You need to get that cellphone and stomp it flat in front of her. Throw the computer out if need be.

Yep. Been there done that. Won't work. Waywards are a bizarre breed. No sanity, no thought, just fog.

This is right on put the letter away. I wrote many letters to my FWW but never gave them to her. It helped me to type out all the crap I felt but it would have made me look very needy had I given them to her.

On confronting the OM. The first OM in my situation, yes I said first cause there were a couple more, was from a few hundred miles away. I called him one night and asked him what he was doing with my wife. I threatened him right away and he acted like the tough guy. We went back and fourth for a minute or two and then it was done. I simply told him in as peaceful terms as I could how he was a POS for messing with a married woman and one with two young children. I spent a good 30-45 minutes on the phone with him that night. I just tried my best to let him know that I wasn't going to just step aside while he destroyed my family. The next morning my FWW showed me a text she received from him telling her to delete his numbers and he was doing the same because it just wasn't worth it.

Also you need to contact this POS wife weather you confront him or not. I would bet the house she knows nothing of what is going on. AND DON'T TELL YOUR WW YOU ARE DOING THIS.

When you expose to OM's wife, your wife ill say something along the lines of "How could you involve her?" or "You are ruining her marriage." or something of that sort. Your reply should be that cheating is what is wrong, that the cheating is what is destroying both marriages and that the affair partners are the ones doing all the damage here. Then walk away calmly and don't listen to any more such crap.

OM's wife is the best possible ally you can have right now since she can pressure the affair to end from OM's side of the equation. With luck as OM begins to realize that at least half his pay, pension and accumulated assets are going to be leaving on the next bus to Long Beach he is likely to throw your wife under the bus without much hesitation. Affairs aren't much fun when they are costing you everything you've ever had or hoped to have. Even true love can't overcome that kind of thing for long.

But do this soon so that they can't make plans to be together to consummate this mess they call love. Sex ups the ante some since the addition of high levels of oxytocin added to the dopamine already fueling their addiction will make the addiction that much harder to break. Trust me on this, once they have sex, they will have a bond that will be stronger than they have right now. Stop this before it reaches that point and wait out the six weeks or so of depression, moodiness and lethargy from your wife once no contact is established (yeah, real withdrawal symptoms too).

A train is coming and you're standing on the tracks. Hesitation will lead to your demise. Act while you can still choose the direction you want to go. If you wait till the train gets here, you will have to struggle just to survive. Indecision is a decision.

Act so you don't have to react.

Call OM's wife ASAP.

As they might say in Texas...

Cowboy up and git 'er done.

Mark

Good example how exposure works:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2268641&page=1

I reread SAA last night and I have been basically doing plan A for about a month, even though I didn't realize it. I haven't dwelled on emotions at all except in the letter that I have since shelved.

She has not said she wants to work on our marriage, in fact she says she can't think about that until she resolves her feelings for OM. But the fact that she is still here tells me she is doing a big battle over what is right.

I don't really believe I can go much longer on Plan A. She homeschools my kids during the day. Cell phones do not work inside my house so she has to go outside to make these calls. When she does this, hours at a time, she is leaving my children unattended inside while she is out there, plus the school work is not getting done. When she does come back in, she starts yelling at the kids for all they did when she was gone (this is per my 11yo). They deserve better than this. I know she loves them but she is putting the OM ahead of them now too.

I still love her, but honestly, she has changed so much in the last few months that I am truly not feeling attracted to her any more. Her attitude is all wrong, she doesn't do any domestic duties (such as clean house or laundry) and has stopped contributing to the family financially (quit her job) which has really pushed our financial situation into the red. I am struggling to keep us afloat. I know all of this is due to his influence.

My patience is running out but I know my wife is still in there somewhere. For my kids sake, I want to get her back. I am not a quitter and I don't run out on my responsibilities.

I am planning to contact the OMW today which leads me to more questions: Do I stop at just the reveal or can I go long and start asking about details, assuming she is talkative? My wife has told a lot about this guy and his family and I would love nothing more than to prove he has lied 100% to her. Do you think the OMW would be that talkative? I also have her mother's phone number. I may start there as she is a big shot in her church and might be shocked to find out about this.

You can benefit each other as a source of info to find out about the affair an source of info to bust up the affair.

Have you told her and your parents that she is leaving their grandchildren alone for HOURS while she chases OM?

My mom would skin me alive if I did that to her grandbabies.

Whether the OM'sW is talkative or not, the exposure will be critical for the plan you follow.

Don't relay back info to your WW right away (such a temptation but don't even mention having spoke with the OMW)

Once your WW finds out about the exposure she will go wild and crazy with the script responses mentioned by all (venom back at you and threats of abandoming the marriage due to your action)

Ride that through. It is that addict. Her leaving the kids during the day to get her fix is a great example of the power of the drug of fantasyland.

Anyway. Keep studying SAA and put your taker in the dugout to watch your giver do a brilliantly enticing job of being the compassionate, loving spouse (even in this dire situation).

Start with OM's wife.....she probably doesn't know anything and she has a RIGHT to know. Don't believe ANYTHING your WW says about their marriage. OM could be lying to her, my H sure did. Either way, this poor OM's wife deserves to know what is going on.....

Then call MIL. The purpose of exposure is to enlist as many as you can to help burst this fantasy bubble the AP's are living in. Gather many allies as you can.....

And lastly, listen VERY CLOSELY to Mark. His wisdom and knowledge will get you far. He was an great help to me when I was where you are.....

Not2fun

Also be prepared to hear lots of lies about yourself.
She has likely told OM that you are abusive or neglectful or uninvolved, or you've lived like roommates for years. Heck, you might even be divorced and you don't even know it! Or you've agreed to divorce, but you're waiting til the kids get older.
She's probably told the OM incredible lies to get him involved....

Be prepared for your wife's fury. She will be furious that you have exposed the lies. She will rant and rave at you. She will try to make you believe that she was just about to end it -- but now she can never TRUST YOU again!

PH,

You said

You can actually write this and wonder if you should tell your children???? They are being ignored, yelled at, and otherwise just pushed aside, and you wonder if they should know why or not? What are you thinking?

Your children need to know what is going on in an age appropriate manner. Tell them today. You also need to seek other schooling options as clearly she is failing them as a teacher as well as a mother. They don't need to lose months of schooling while she carries on her affair. Document, document, and then take them to school where they have a chance to learn and be away from this mess.

You should also seek some counseling for them even if you don't for yourself.

You also said You need to plan A for a bit longer but plan B is coming and you need to ask her to leave the house. She contributes nothing as it is.

Are you seeing why you need to expose this affair to all of your family, friends, her family, and certainly OM's W? You need help. Exposure is not done for punishment, it is done to seek help in convincing WS to end the affair, AND (this is very important to you) to seek help for yourself and your kids. You all need help.

You need to be open and honest with the kids, and as has been stated several times already you do NOT tell your W about your exposure plans.

You have a lot to do, you need to get started.

God Bless,

JL

PS: It is time you changed from PatientHusband, to ActiveHusband and even more importantly GreatFather to your children.

Why do you insist on trying to educate her into ending the affair?

As far as the crazy way she is acting, ALL waywards act like that. An affair is a purely selfish thing done for purely selfish reasons based on purely selfish emotions derived from purely selfish feelings and allowed to continue due to purely selfish justifications.

Don't try to FIX anything other than yourself.

Meet her Ens
Avoid Love Busters
Have no expectations

Don't talk about it.
Don't discuss it.
Don't tell her about it.
Don't modify it.
Don't make it into a referendum on your relationship.

Per Nike...

Just DO IT!

She will NOT commit to working on the marriage until the affair is over, she has gone a couple of months with no contact with OM at all and the fantasy aspect of the affair has faded into the dust of horrendous events past.
Don't expect it.
Don't look for signs of it.
Don't wait for it.
Don't count on it.

1) Meet her ENs
2) Avoid Love Busters
3) Have no expectations

Simple as 1, 2, 3 and the hardest thing you'll do unless you get a chance at recovery...

Which won't happen if you keep trying to FIX this by logic, education, coercion, enforcement, demanding or chest pounding.

She has to want to be with you more than she wants to be with him. What you DO will determine that, not what you say, what you show her on paper, in a book, on the Internet, in a letter or email, on Youtube or any other place where you might find things that give you hope.

Develop a plan to:

Meet her ENs
Avoid Love Busters

And do these things with NO EXPECTATIONS as to how she might respond.

And remember that when she finds out that you contacted OM's wife, she will go totally, completely, certifiably NUTS! As in...

BALLISTIC...

As in THROWING THINGS (which is the real meaning of the word ballistic, BTW)

She will do all she can to pressure you to back off. Things you didn't know she had inside her will come out. She is an addict and you are messing with the source of her drug. Expect her to act like you've never imagined. That is one expectation you should have.

Expect nothing else in the way of reaction other than lashing out, all consuming anger and venting.

Mark

I hear what you are saying loud and clear.

My wife already suspects I have told S11, she has asked him repeatedly what he and I talk about and when. My son doesn't trust her, he has heard her tell a girlfriend on the phone some stuff he has trusted her with and that betrayal has stuck with him. He knows I am his ally and his father and that I will be there for him regardless. I almost told him last night who she talks to on the phone so much.

As to documentation, I have all the cell records that show her being outside for up to 80 minutes at a time while the kids were all there. These records go back to July. I would say that would be enough to suffice in court to prove negligence in a custody battle if it came to that. Her cell is in her name but I pay the bill. I may let it lapse this month, I have enough evidence and I am tired of enabling this. What else do I need to be documenting?

I was planning to call the OMW today, but I need to think this through another day or so, I need be on ready if she decides to bolt with the kids and leave the state so I would rather do this on a Friday so I know I would be there and could control matters for the weekend.

> I would say that would be enough to suffice in court to prove negligence in a custody battle if it came to that.

What are you doing for the children KNOWING your wife is doing this?

The courts WILL ask that.

If you suspect your wife is not caring for them when she should be, as the responsible parent it is up to YOU to provide the care. The courts will expect it of you.

So what is your plan here? You need a plan. Right now you have bits of paper saying what she is doing....what are you going to do about it.

Kids first, waynerds last IMO.