PH,

Also, be prepares for the doo-doo to hit the fan once you do expose. Waywards HATE when their dirty little secret comes out. She will be madder than a hornet, but that is N�O�R�M�A�L. You will hear things like.....

"I was going to work things out but you just went too far"
"You are a mean, vindictive man....why would I want to stay married to you?"
"How could YOU do this to me?"
"You went too far, I can never trust you now..."

or variations of that.

Don't buy into it. And STAY CALM. When she unleashes her storm, be the calm one. It helps if you put her into the catagory of a toddler throwing a temper tantrum. Don't yell back, don't use sarcasm, and if it gets too hard to bear walk away.

You may reply with, "Honey, I'm doing everything I can to save our marriage, which is not possible with OM in it" or "You are the carrying on this extramarital affair. I'm trying to save the marriage".

Whatever you do though, don't Love Bust. And DO NOT APOLOGIZE. You didn't cause this, so do not assume the blame.

And lastly, please keep this in mind.....
"Your marriage can survive her anger, it cannot survive an ongoing affair"

not2fun

Re: her cellphone, you said:
Why so passive? If you're still documenting, that'd be one thing, but if you've got enough evidence, then call the phone company today & cancel it now.

Enough already, man up and expose everyone today.

Guys, I am so confused. Last night and this morning she has been so nice, even gave me a big hug this morning before I left for work (no kiss). My mood goes from ready to kick her out to worshiping her again in a matter of minutes. Of course I know the OM will be talking to her very soon, probably has already started texting this morning. After 17 years of being as close as we were and having as good a marriage as we did, its hard not to let this consume me.

So, say I expose to the OMW, after the "doo-doo" hits the fan as not2fun said, then what? Who's to say this isn't what sends her out the door straight to him?

Those of you that went the exposure route, how did it go for you? Good, Bad, how long did the explosion last?

I know I said yesterday that I had lost my attraction for her, but that is for the woman this has turned her into, not the real her. I know that beautiful woman with the huge loving heart is still in there. I do not want to be ignorant or passive, I do want to fight for my wife, my marriage and for my kids, but I also don't want to make some fatal mistake. Right now, she hasn't been with him physically, I don't really think I could take that. She is still home, she is confused. She is a smart lady who has gotten herself into something she didn't ask for or realize until she was in too deep. She knows right from wrong, but that "fog" is blocking her vision.

Am I just hopeless? Can I be blamed for loving this beautiful woman so much, who brought me so much happiness for so long? Perhaps it is I who is in the fog.

Let the beatings begin.

I do not mean to be harsh,as I know you are hurting. But, I really think you are hurting your chances of getting your wife back by being so passive/doormatish.

I fought the advise to expose a well. I should have done it last fall and didn't. By not, I unkowingle allowed calls and emails to continue. I did expose, and my WH was MAD. Actually said I had hurt him. Like he hadn't caused me so much more pain and grief. I am now in plan B and WH seems to be in a panic. I still don't know if my marriage is fixable or if WH is capable of doing what it takes for recovery, but I know that I did everything in MY power to save it, and I can find some peace with that.

Don't allow WW to take kids. Get all of your family involved in this. There is no reason they have to be home schooled. It doesn't sound like she is effective now anyway. My kids have gone all the way through public school. Is it the best situation? IDK. But for the most part they are happy and thriving and have had some VERY good and caring teachers and coaches who look out for their best interest. Some know part of our situation, and have been so caring and understanding, and have gone the extra mile to help my kids. I am so blessed to have so many caring adults in their lives. They know too, that there are some really good people who care and love them, even if their dad is not really acting like it right now.

My advise - Expose. Call OMW. Tell your kids. Make plans and date for plan B. Plan B might take her out of her fog, if it doesn't lift before then. Make it clear that you will not allow her to take your children away from you. If they know what is going on, they probably won't want to go with her anyway. This is her decision, not yours, as she has destroyed your marriage and family.

She's comparing a real life with you to a fantasy that she is able to control and make up in her own head that involves the OM.

What do YOU think would be the way to win this battle?

Are you willing to wait until she actually goes off and spends a weekend with OM before you blow the fantasy to bits?

Are you willing to have her move out and live with OM for a while in order to discover her true feelings so she can consider whether she wants to return to you or run off with him?

Are you willing to wait patiently at home for her, staring into the faces of your children as they look at you wondering why Mommy has a boyfriend and Daddy doesn't have a girlfriend?

How far does this still infantile fantasy of hers have to go before it is a serious enough problem for you to do something?

A question you might want to consider asking folks around here would be "Who didn't expose and things turned out to be wonderful for you and your wayward spouse?"

Soon after D-day, my wife and I spent the night together at our vacation cabin. We had incredible sex that night and again the next morning. She was up-beat, happy and smiling as she showered and got ready to leave for work. She sat and held my hand while we drank our coffee. She thanked me for fixing her breakfast, gave me a warm and sexy kiss, told me she had really enjoyed our time together, got into her car...

And called OM before she'd driven 100 yards. She talked to him the entire 90 minutes it took her to get to work. She called him two more times from work and then called me and told me that we might as well get divorced since she wasn't going to give up OM.

The fact that she is being nice to you is not an indication that she plans to end the affair.

Remember that method for making decisions that you learned in high school? You take a piece of paper and on one side you list all the things that are for going ahead with it. On the other side you list all those things that could be considered against the choice you are considering.

Your wife is doing that right now and I think you get that part. What I think you are missing is that you think she is comparing the real history and life you have had together, remembering all the good stuff as opposed to some guy she barely knows, has never had sex with and doesn't have any children with.

What she is really comparing is every negative thing that ever happened in your entire marriage complete with every time she has felt hurt by you, each annoying habit you possess, every sacrifice she has made not only for you but for the kids as well and what amounts to a real life and the resentment she feels deeply for each and every one of those sacrifices.

On the other side of the ledger she is listing all the things about OM that make her feel so happy. She is listing his talking to her for hours (while she completely ignores those annoying children). She is thinking about the compliments he has flattered her with three times already only 5 minutes into the conversation. She is listing the promises he has made about how he would never treat her like you do (ignoring her, running off to work when she really needs you at the moment, not having time to talk because the boss is in your office).

She is also making a list of how her life would be if they were together and the marriage were gone entirely...No kids, no mortgage, no bills, no laundry, no dirty dishes, no kids waking up at three in the morning to puke on your side of the bed as they run to you for comfort when they are sick...

She is comparing the things she doesn't much enjoy in her real life with what she wishes her life could be. OM isn't even the issue. She isn't comparing you to a real OM, merely a fantasy that she has made up in her mind...

You cannot win this comparison...

But you might be able to shed some light into the darkness where the fantasy exists, because fantasies can't exist in the light of reality. The bubble bursts as soon as truth hits it and then real things have to be considered.

Prediction if you don't bring this into the open soon: She will be very nice to you. She will spend less and less time that you can trace talking to OM. Her affair will be buried and soon you will think all is well. She will at some point begin talking about a trip to visit long lost aunts and uncles or some college room mate. It will be like when you first got married when it comes to sex. Things will be better than you can remember since the kids came along and she'll go have her ten day vacation without you...

And spend the entire time in the bed of OM where they will finally consummate their love for each other.

She'll come home and she'll be sullen and withdrawn. She make your life a living hell. The tension will mount until one day when things will explode and she'll say "I can't live like this any more..."

She'll get her own place, or more likely get you tossed from your home by court order so she can not be inconvenienced while taking care of the kids, which she has been doing your entire marriage. She'll get a job, nothing fancy and really only enough money to keep her in cellphones and perfume. She'll let everyone on the whole planet know that she tried really hard to work things out with you but the abyss was just too great to overcome since you had grown apart after so many years together.

Then one day she'll begin to mention that she has met some guy that she finds interesting, wait, make that fascinating. His name is OM. He makes her feel alive and has had some trouble in the marriage department himself so he understand what she is going through. She's thinking of dating him to see where things go. Oh, and he's moving here form his home state and so will stay with her(in the spare bedroom, of course) but only on the days that YOU have the kids (at least to begin with) and then at last, after years of torturing you she'll make a choice...

She'll file for divorce...

OR she'll send OM home to Momma and contact you to see if you'll take her back.

So having her get mad at you is worse than this how?

PH, understand this if nothing else; if she was planning on leaving you because you were an awful husband, you'd be getting hit with a court order to vacate your house at once. She'd be gone when you woke up one mooring. She'd hop on the bus, Gus... Get a new Plan, Stan...There must be 50 ways to leave your lover...

She's living in a fantasy.

You can try to out-survive her fantasy.

Or you can take control of your own life and fight to prevent the destruction of your family.

Oh, and BTW...

My wife and I (yep, the same one who wanted to divorce) are teaching a Marriage Builders class together on Wednesday nights at our church.

She was convinced to stay and make it work by two things. 1) The changes I made to myself and my half of the marriage and 2) The fact that a bunch of people were telling her over and over again that fixing her marriage was right and running off with OM was wrong. This bunch included her sisters, step mother, friends, pastor, college boy son...

A bull ride only has to last eight seconds...

Almost nobody can make it that long..

The time doesn't start till you're out the gate...

You have to nod to make the gate open...

Strap up and hang on...

Give a nod...

Make it happen...

Cowboy up!

Mark

Patient --

It's really important for betrayed MEN to expose, because you do NOT want to be seen by your WW as a doormat (willing to accept any abuse she dishes out, so desperate to win her back that you will put up with anything...etc) because she will VERY QUICKLY lose her respect for you.

You cannot lose her respect. That will be more harmful to your chances than her temporary anger over exposure.

Of course you love her and want her to stay and love you too.

You will need to face a storm first though. A storm of dealing with the addicted to another man storm. It is not pleasant but a challenge for a loyal, loving betrayed spouse.

Yes, it is concievable that exposure could send her out to OM. Most likely she will lay her wrath of being exposed on you and settle down and stay home but she may take off. An addict doesn't like the supply line messed with. It makes them mad because they are scared that it will be harder to get the substance they are addicted to (the fantasy, illicit affair partner).

Anyway. Stay calm in the face of the stuff she throws at you once you expose and she finds out (not from you. NOT FROM YOU) and realize that her reaction is the addiction. Don't take it personally (really)

You will very likely need to follow your plan A with a plan B at some point and be ready not to see, smell, feel her or hear her voice.

At that point she would be driven towards the OM. That is the point. The bubble of their relationship will be tested. At that point (once in plan B), you let go. YOu hope for the best and realize you are no longer enabling an addict.

So you plan A as long as you can. Leave a great impression and eventually most likely plan B. Let go and let the adulterers at each other without your involvment.

It is a gamble but the most logical plan.

You have to be prepared for a future with or without her.

Don't even worry about Plan B yet, PH. I don't think it is in your future if you can nip this while the buds are yet unopened.

She hasn't consummated this new love yet. Kill the fantasy before it has a chance to grow.

The problem in your marriage is the affair.
The enemy is the affair.
Fight the affair.
Kill the affair.
Fire the first shot against the fantasy of the affair.

Call OM's wife!

My wife had an 8-month EA. Almost consummated but she resisted his advances, and I caught it in time.

What stopped it?

1. Exposure. She said exposure had nothing to do with it; I say BALONEY and several weeks of every friend she's ever had getting back in touch with her to say how much they admire our marriage HAD to have had an impact!

2. Exposure, specifically to OMW. You see, OM called my WW in a screaming rage at me over this, seven times in the space of two hours. I have NEVER yelled at my wife in fifteen years of marriage. Score one for the good guys.

3. Exposure. Knowing that most of our friends and family were on the side of the marriage helped give me the strength to fight for my marriage.

4. Exposure. OMW helped police OM; OMW had had an emotional affair with another man some years prior, and knew what was required to get over it: absolute no-contact with the object of your EA. And there was another added perk: when my wife learned that it took me two weeks of hunting to chase down what OMW's wife's name was, her current address, her Facebook account, and her phone number, she took that as evidence that I was willing to fight really hard for our marriage.

5. Oh, right, did I mention exposure? Friends checking to see how I was doing. Friends volunteering to take WW to lunch and talk about life, trying to see if they can convince her to do the right thing without admitting they know of the affair. Friends taking it upon themselves to burst the bubble of the affair, and share their own experiences recovering from previous affairs in their marriage. Exposure helped me see that 80% of ALL MARRIAGES experience infidelity!

6. I Plan A'd my butt off. I wasn't perfect -- we had quite a bit of drama the first three weeks -- but I showed her what a great husband I could be, and what an inviting home I can create. I showed her how I was willing to change how I treated her so that I could better meet her emotional needs.

7. A commitment to create the best marriage we could have. I committed to follow a recovery program with her as soon as the other man was out of our lives.

8. I showed my wife I was willing to FIGHT for my marriage. I wasn't fighting her, I was fighting the affair. I fought through exposure, through interference, through stating the hurt the affair is causing the marriage without engaging in angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, and selfish demands. I fought by spending more time with my kids and protecting them from this vile influence in their lives. Through confrontation with the other man. Through snooping my butt off and finding creative ways to make each subsequent contact between the affair partners increasingly negative.

9. What she believes caused her "change of heart" was reading an article in her church magazine discussing "spiritual infidelity". I confronted her while she was writing an email to the other man, sharing the hurt she was engaging in at that very moment, and later that night she read that article. When she realized that her church -- and, by extension, her God -- frowned on her inappropriate relationship with a man who was not her husband (even though it wasn't sexual yet), it was the final straw that compelled her to write the no-contact letter.

The no-contact letter was not what I would have had her write. She was still rebellious at that point, feeling that she needed to take control of and own this no-contact letter without the involvement of "papa bear looking over my shoulder".

At the point at which she broke it off with him, she said it was because it felt "pointless". His wife was watching him; I was watching her. Nothing further could come of their relationship unless they each abandoned their respective spouses, therefore there was no further point in contact since she was not ready to take that leap (though he clearly was).

A few weeks later, she expressed gratitude that I talked to OMW; she said she'd felt "trapped" in her relationship with OM and didn't know how to end it.

A few weeks later, she said that she's glad things didn't continue progressing because "now I know things I didn't know then" about OM's lying regarding his relationship with his wife (never separated, never going through a divorce, etc.)

Today, she's fully committed, though the fog still creeps through from time to time when we discuss anything immediately surrounding the affair.

So I hope you took 4 lessons from this:

1. Expose. Expose. Expose. Oh, and did I mention "expose"? Seriously, this is the part where MOST OF US MEN WIMP OUT. We're so afraid of our wife's anger and her reactions, we forget that exposure is the RIGHT THING TO DO in most situations. Anger is tiring and temporary. Your marriage can survive your wife's momentary anger; it cannot survive a never-ending affair. For a point of reference, my FWW's anger about exposure lasted around two weeks, but really only three days of angry outbursts.

2. Meet her emotional needs consistently; take time off work if you must, or arrange to work from home.

3. Spend a MINIMUM of 25 hours a week with her (undivided attention if you can) in pursuit of goal #2. I told my boss I needed to work from home a few days a week to accomplish this goal. Even though I was working, I tried to be in the same room with her. It bothered her at first (because it interfered with calling OM during the day) but now she LOVES IT!

4. Engage in ZERO Love Busters, especially selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and anger. Exception: avoid discussions bout your snoops or exposure. Use the pat answers of "I will do whatever is necessary to save this marriage" or "everything I am doing is done to save this marriage" without further exploration of exactly how you're getting your information or to whom you've exposed & why.

PH,

Want a hero?

I nominate BarnBoy!

Want to be a hero?

Fight for your marriage!

Mark

Thanks for the encouragement. Just got back from lunch with WW where she informed me she had met w/ an atty this morning. Just a consult says she. Although I didn't react in front of her, it has sent me into a tailspin.

On way back from lunch, I tried to call OMW, still only voice mail. Trying to get a cell number for her now. I have a home number but I know the possibility is great that the OM is there and I do not want to even hear his voice. Any clue on how to best get a cell number for someone? This has gone way too far.

Mark, your posts are unbelievable. I wish I had found this site a month ago.

Thanks Barnboy, between you and Mark, you guys ARE my heros!

PH,

First, are you *sure* she met with an attorney? My WW told me this three or four times and she was lying each and every time.

Are you snooping yet? If not, that's the most immediate way to discover lying. Also check bank records if you have that access as well (although lawyers do have free consults). Also check phone records to see if she actually called a lawyer.

Don't freak out!! You *have* to be the strong one here. Wading through this muck takes superhuman strength. I imagine you are physically and emotionally exhausted but you have got to hold together for your family's sake.

Don't let her play mind games with you. Remember that waywards lie and they do it a lot. Sometimes it's half truths sometimes its complete BS. Again, snooping can help you figure out truth from fiction because she is likely being much more truthful with OM.

You've heard people talk about withdrawal here, right? She is on drugs and each time she tries to get off its painful for her and she'll want that fix. Getting through that period is going to be damn hard. Can you send her away to someplace where she can detox? She needs a solid few weeks (at least 3) of complete NC to make this happen. Can you do that? Someone you trust to help?

Have you really done FULL exposure - to everyone? This will give you lots of allies and will massively increase your support group while minimizing her. Don't be afraid to go after WW girlfriends, family, everyone. If they have any decency at all, they will be on your side. And by so doing, you make the EA that much harder to continue.

Don't give up. This is not hopeless at all! You can bust an EA, its just going to take patience and a willingness to stand up for what you know is right.

You can do it!

I feel your pain. I am in much the same situation as you. Except my wife DID file for divorce, about a month ago. I exposed, exposed, exposed, did all the right things according to MB. So far she is steaming ahead with the divorce.

She tells me the affair is over with, and I see no evidence or suspicious activity as I had previously. But, I do not believe her. I think they have just gone more underground. I can't figure out why a woman with 3 kids, starting a career as an RN, wants to basically dump her family, be reduced to almost poverty level, and be a part-time parent, unless there is someone else waiting in the wings (the OM).

I continue to Plan A her, I have fallen off the wagon a couple of times but for the most part I am on track. I hold her accountable without being disrespectful. Still hoping the fog will clear and she will come to her senses before the divorce is finalized (at least a year from what I hear from my attorney). Her family (huge family) does not support her AT ALL in any decision she is making.

Keep doing Plan A, don't believe a word your wife says. Expose! I was much like you in the beginning, too afraid to rock the boat. But after being lied to several times, and disrespected I began standing up for myself and taking charge. Best thing I ever did.

I am curious how many other recovered marriages involved divorce proceedings only to have the divorce stopped before it was finalized...I hope you are able to nip this in the bud before attorney's are involved. They are expensive, we've already spent $1,600 (out of $3,000 we each paid in retainer fees) in one month and nothing has really come out of it. Just a bunch of paperwork.

I checked phone records. She really did it.

PH,

Let's see yesterday she was so nice, today she tells you she is seeing a lawyer...just for information purposes only RIGHT!

PH, you need to listen to Lexxxy, Mark, Claygal, and Barnboy. They have all danced this dance and they do know what they are talking about. You are more likely to win this battle if you become a man she has to reckon with rather than a man she can manipulate. She is counting your infatuation with her and her beauty to keep you from moving around too much. It makes you a much easier target. If you start acting and moving around, it really is hard to hit you right between the eyes.

What would you do if you did not fear? THat is what you have to ask yourself.

God Bless,

JL

PH,

Good job in keeping your cool under pressure ("never let 'em see you sweat"..... ).
Next time she pulls out any discussion on attornies, divorce, separation, splitting of possessions, ect., just tell her, " I don't do divorce. Want a potatoe chip?".... She wants you to play fair and nice, and make this as easy for HER as possible. So your mantra is "I don't do divorces".....

As for the cell phone, I don't believe those are public knowledge, but I could be wrong. Have you tried to Google her??... You might catch something that way. Or see if she has a Facebook or Myspace page......If you find nothing there, what I would do is send a Certified letter to her, with a signature required by her, letting her know you need to talk to her concerning her H. BUT until then, keep calling.

If you don't get ahold of her tonight, I would call your MIL first thing tomorrow morning.

Until then, Plan A your butt off.....

Not2fyn

PH,

It is amazing how similar our situations are. Just wanted to thank you for sharing on here and all who are supporting you becuase you are helping me too!