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Is becoming more "absolute" (as a result of infidelity) a good thing or a bad thing?
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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Well, I am absolutely intolerant of adulterers.
I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top.
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Geeze this word "absolute" defined ... is slippery when wet! Main Entry: ab�so�lute Pronunciation: \ˈab-sə-ˌl�t, ˌab-sə-ˈ\ Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English absolut, from Anglo-French, from Latin absolutus, from past participle of absolvere to set free, absolve Date: 14th century 1 a : free from imperfection : perfect <it is a most absolute and excellent horse � Shakespeare> b : free or relatively free from mixture : pure <absolute alcohol> c : outright, unmitigated <an absolute lie> 2 : being, governed by, or characteristic of a ruler or authority completely free from constitutional or other restraint <absolute power> 3 a : standing apart from a normal or usual syntactical relation with other words or sentence elements <the absolute construction this being the case in the sentence �this being the case, let us go�> b of an adjective or possessive pronoun : standing alone without a modified substantive <blind in �help the blind� and ours in �your work and ours� are absolute> c of a verb : having no object in the particular construction under consideration though normally transitive <kill in �if looks could kill� is an absolute verb> 4 : having no restriction, exception, or qualification <an absolute requirement> <absolute freedom> 5 : positive, unquestionable <absolute proof> 6 a : independent of arbitrary standards of measurement b : relating to or derived in the simplest manner from the fundamental units of length, mass, and time <absolute electric units> c : relating to, measured on, or being a temperature scale based on absolute zero <absolute temperature>; specifically : kelvin <10� absolute> 7 : fundamental, ultimate <absolute knowledge> 8 : perfectly embodying the nature of a thing <absolute justice> 9 : being self-sufficient and free of external references or relationships <an absolute term in logic> <absolute music> 10 : being the true distance from an aircraft to the earth's surface <absolute altitude> � absolute noun � ab�so�lute�ness noun
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This definition is a little more simple to utilize:
From Dictionary.com
ab-so-lut-ism
Pronunciation [ab-suh-loo-tiz-uhm]
�noun
1. the principle or the exercise of complete and unrestricted power in government.
2. any theory holding that values, principles, etc., are absolute and not relative, dependent, or changeable.
An example of situational (relative) ethics:
(this is a story I read awhile ago and the exact story is out there on the internet...I'm just recalling it as I remember it)
After WWII, a German couple with children found themselves seperated. The husband was "captured" by the American/British forces and allowed to remain in Germany with the children. The wife was captured by the Russian's and placed in a Russian prison camp. The only way for her to get out was if she got pregnant and applied for release as a hardship case. She conspired with a sympathetic Russian guard and did just that. She was released and returned home to her family in Germany whereupon the husband welcomed her and they raised the OC as their own.
Prior to 2005, I would have no problem with this fact pattern. She did what she had to do to get home to her family and her husband was fine with it. I was firmly in the situational ethics camp. Now, not so much. I'd be sympathetic to the situation but the resolution of such wouldn't be so cut and dry. I'm not quite so absolute (yet) to not even consider the option this woman choose, but the implications AND LIKELY CONSEQUENCES (which the fact pattern ignores and even tries to address by indicating that EVERYONE, including the OC ended up "happy" with this result) of such decision WOULD be of mind. There ARE ABSOLUTELY ALWAYS consequences to sin...I realize that now.
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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There ARE ABSOLUTELY ALWAYS consequences to sin...I realize that now. Absolutely! 
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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This definition is a little more simple to utilize:
From Dictionary.com
ab-so-lut-ism
Pronunciation [ab-suh-loo-tiz-uhm]
�noun
1. the principle or the exercise of complete and unrestricted power in government.
2. any theory holding that values, principles, etc., are absolute and not relative, dependent, or changeable.
An example of situational (relative) ethics:
(this is a story I read awhile ago and the exact story is out there on the internet...I'm just recalling it as I remember it)
After WWII, a German couple with children found themselves seperated. The husband was "captured" by the American/British forces and allowed to remain in Germany with the children. The wife was captured by the Russian's and placed in a Russian prison camp. The only way for her to get out was if she got pregnant and applied for release as a hardship case. She conspired with a sympathetic Russian guard and did just that. She was released and returned home to her family in Germany whereupon the husband welcomed her and they raised the OC as their own.
Prior to 2005, I would have no problem with this fact pattern. She did what she had to do to get home to her family and her husband was fine with it. I was firmly in the situational ethics camp. Now, not so much. I'd be sympathetic to the situation but the resolution of such wouldn't be so cut and dry. I'm not quite so absolute (yet) to not even consider the option this woman choose, but the implications AND LIKELY CONSEQUENCES (which the fact pattern ignores and even tries to address by indicating that EVERYONE, including the OC ended up "happy" with this result) of such decision WOULD be of mind. There ARE ABSOLUTELY ALWAYS consequences to sin...I realize that now.
Mr. Wondering Well, Not knowing all the details, but it depends on if the WW / POW exercised MB principles upon reuniting with her BH. 1. Did she ensure no contact with OM? Well, if you are willing to get yourself pregnant to get out of Russia, then it is safe to assume no contact. 2. Did she come "clean" with her BH? I would imagine yes. If she was in lurrvvveee with the guard, she wouldn't have left Russia. Her ACTIONS show that the relations with the guards was all about getting a bun in the oven to get out of jail. 3. The husband would have to exorcise the mind movies for a while but again, it is the ACTIONS of his WW. Her leaving Russia would have earned her the F in my view. As for the OC, yes he would be a trigger but also a great deal for OC since it was raised in a free, democratic society instead of the Soviet Union. So, yes she is a wayward but she was so intent on keeping her marriage and her family together that she broke her vows of marriage in order to keep the marriage. Not unlike the hiker in Utah that cut his arm off with a pocket knife to keep from dying. In her case, the ends justified the means.
Me BH 49 WXW 50
Married 1998
DS 2002
DD 2005
D Day 1 7/28/08
D Day 2 8/19/08
Divorce Final 3/19/2009
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Is becoming more "absolute" (as a result of infidelity) a good thing or a bad thing?
Mr. Wondering I think it CAN BE a good thing if you recognize it and use it to guide your entire life. My fear(belief) is betrayed folks are absolutist about cheating(adultery), but lack the same rules of integrity in other parts of their lives. ie they cheat on their taxes, try to screw their xWS financially, some shady business practices, etc. I think we all know the answer to this...Betrayed spouses become SUPER HYPER SENSITIVE to ANYTHING even remotely resembling WAYWARDNESS.(TRIGGERS) It is a symptom of being BETRAYED. It is a natural instinct to being burned so badly that we lose any judgement. Its in effect the same logic as schools with ZERO TOLERANCE policies and we know how silly that sheet can get...DUDE
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Well what about the portrayal of this Russian prison guard as a herione. Was he or was he a rapist taking advantage of a hopeless prisoner for his own jollies. Couldn't he have put his seed in a cup/jar for her to attempt impregnating herself or was his prurient interests a part of the deal?
What if one of the other prisoners was an old woman beyond child bearing years that came to her to tell her what a bad idea this was and for her to consider the consequences?
Would such woman be considered WISE to instigate the serious moral and ethical implications of such decision or dismissed as "bitter" since she obviously couldn't get pregnant herself and thus, escape?
Was it really a life sentence or would there be other ways to secure release. The story wouldn't seem so easy had it included a statement that Russia released all the women 6 months later.
Finally, the "end justifies the means" is a pretty flimsy conclusion that could be used to rationalize just about anything. All of us can dress up "the end" to make it seem worth it but unfortunately, the future is still unfolding and MAY bring forth new and unforseen consequences, despite the rosiness of the present outcome. I think rather, sometime, "the end turns out OK, despite the means" because people are resilient and capable of overcoming many obstacles. Doesn't ever make the "means" right though.
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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>we lose any judgement.
BS.
I'm mightly judgemental. Emphasis on the mental bit.
;-)
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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>we lose any judgement.
BS.
I'm mightly judgemental. Emphasis on the mental bit.
;-) Well, your female so being mental is a given..hehe DUDE
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I am very much against infidelity. But, I still can see mitigating circumstances in the above story. For me, (and this is strictly a guess), I think I would be okay with my wife's actions under those circumstances.
I just saw a trailer for a movie with Toby McGuire and that fellow from "Brokeback Mountatin", Jake G(sp). It is a story of two brothers, one presumed killed in the war. The wife, thinking she is widowed, falls in live with the surviving brother and starts a relationship. All hell breaks loose when the brother that was presumed dead shows up.
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I am very much against infidelity. But, I still can see mitigating circumstances in the above story. For me, (and this is strictly a guess), I think I would be okay with my wife's actions under those circumstances.
I just saw a trailer for a movie with Toby McGuire and that fellow from "Brokeback Mountatin", Jake G(sp). It is a story of two brothers, one presumed killed in the war. The wife, thinking she is widowed, falls in live with the surviving brother and starts a relationship. All hell breaks loose when the brother that was presumed dead shows up. Nope, she had to not date anyone FOREVER if there was no body found. Just like LAW, no body, generally no murder conviction...Therefore, no body, no booty for "supposed surviving spouse". DUDE
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Dude, there's probably a boatload of murder convictions without a body. . Makes the case tougher, but not impossible. The one that jumps to mind and was made into a TV movie involved that lawyer from Delaware who murdered his mistress, disposing of the body in the Ocean. Ann Rule wrote a book about it. We've had a few here in Minnesota.
What about the surviving spouses of those on the Titantic? Were they free to find love?
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Dude, there's probably a boatload of murder convictions without a body. . Makes the case tougher, but not impossible. The one that jumps to mind and was made into a TV movie involved that lawyer from Delaware who murdered his mistress, disposing of the body in the Ocean. Ann Rule wrote a book about it. We've had a few here in Minnesota.
What about the surviving spouses of those on the Titantic? Were they free to find love? Zelmo, you are a smart guy. Surely you can see that their inability to consider ANY circumstances and that someone can NEVER have sex w/ OP while they are still married is evidential manner to the extent of pain they've experienced. They have lost all judgement. When I was in school, my teacher said if its a TRUE/FALSE question and you see the word NEVER, you can bet its FALSE!! You agree?
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DUDE, are you being sarcastic when you say that the widow had no right to find another when her husband was only presumed dead?
I of course had a body, but I do worry how it would get sorted out in the afterlife if I do find someone else in this one.
Divorced.
2 Girls
Remarried 10/11/08
Widowed 11/5/08
Remarrying 12/17/15
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I'm not that smart. I'll have to think about this, Dude.
My initial impression is that there are absolutes. However, the nature of the act being described,how it is framed, makes a huge difference. This is hard for me to describe. So, I will give an example.
Let's talk homicide. We start with , killing another human being is wrong. Then you start adding facts. You get different answers.
So, if I am asked " Is killing another human being with no justification(say self defense) always wrong?", I would say yes, absolutely.
But, If I am asked :"is killing a person that is about to kill you or somenone else always wrong?" No.
See the actions are essentially the same, killing. But, the circumstances are dramatically different.
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I'm not that smart. I'll have to think about this, Dude.
My initial impression is that there are absolutes. However, the nature of the act being described,how it is framed, makes a huge difference. This is hard for me to describe. So, I will give an example.
Let's talk homicide. We start with , killing another human being is wrong. Then you start adding facts. You get different answers.
So, if I am asked " Is killing another human being with no justification(say self defense) always wrong?", I would say yes, absolutely.
But, If I am asked :"is killing a person that is about to kill you or somenone else always wrong?" No.
See the actions are essentially the same, killing. But, the circumstances are dramatically different. YOU ARE A SMART MAN..Don't let betrayal take away your ability to reasoning. If they take that from you they really do win. Not me, not on my watch..DUDE
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I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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They are the waywards whom abused them. They took away a lot, and then on top of it you give away your judgement and reasoning with this new "heightened awareness". This is a beautiful term for TRIGGERS...It is a sympton of betrayal and once you see it as that, you will be on the road to recovery. It feels so good. Such a relief...DUDE
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