Let me make it easier for you...He is hurting just as badly as ANY BH on here who's ww ran off?! Can we at least agree on that? DUDE

He dismisses me worrying about him. He tells me he will be ok refering to super man, I said to him still becarefull because even superman gets hurt. THANK DUDE

Oh, I totally agreed on that many, many posts ago. The ending of a 9-year relationship would be very painful. I was only questioning if MB principles could honestly help in this situation, since they are geared specifically towards recovering Marriages.

Why do you think plan A and B would not apply to him? Granted plan D might be fruitless? hehe DUDE

Dude --

Just wondering if you can tell me whether or not I'm married.
I've had this boyfriend for 4 years, and he lives with me.

Am I married?????

I'm gonna be kinda bummed if I am -- cuz I didn't get any good wedding presents....

why could nt MB principles work in recovering a committed long term relationship if one uses it to gain the other person back and then the two work ithe principles together. whats the difference in a long term relationjship and marriage. A piece of paper, that means nothing if your not committed for a life time like a long term relationship is for many. It still takes the same commitment of honesty, loyalty,companionship,domestic support, finances and so on or does committment only mean something on paper.

Answer these five questions:

1) Are you planning on getting married(just haven't yet)

2) Do you feel committed the same as a marriage partner? ie if you break up it would feel like a divorce?

3) Do you ever call each other spouse/husband/wife?

4) Do you share checking accounts, credit card accounts, etc?

5) Would your parents and/or his parents consider you married?

Unfortunately, the 'OP' in this story is actually a MM. So there is definitely some 'wrong' here.

eh....don't worry about it.

I KNOW I'm not married....

Its a RENTAL! hehe

Ok, it seems I've set off quite the s*** storm here, so here's how I view it:

- We told each other almost every day that we would be together until death (including up until a week before she left)
- Both our families considered us permanently together
- I was called "uncle" by her niece
- The in laws consider me part of their family even still and have supported me during all of this
- We had a business together and our finances were co-mingled
- We spent almost 24 hours a day together for 9 nine years
- All of our friends thought we would be together forever and would comment about how we were "the perfect couple"
- We shared almost every recreational activity and interest together (how many married couples can say that)
- We made every decision about our lives jointly
- We held hands everywhere we went until the day before she left (how many married couples here can say that)
- We took care of each other in sickness and health

So I ask you, did the lack of a piece of paper from the county mean that our relationship didn't have the same meaning as marriage?

Anyway, she came and picked up the last of things yesterday while I was gone. She said she wasn't coming back, but she loved me and couldn't even bare to here my voice (she arranged to pickup her things via text message). It's all so bizarre, I just can't fathom what kind of reality she's living in where you love someone so much just hearing their voice causes so much pain, but you still won't try and work things out. "WW" even snapped at her own niece on the phone when her niece told her she didn't approve of what she was doing. When I heard about that I cried, she used to be so close to her and to be cruel to a child! I just can't imagine her acting this way.

So it's on to "Plan B". I do understand what people are saying that there's no "Plan D" here, which makes the principals somewhat less effective, but I still think "Plan B" might be workable. Everyone including my therapist says she's be knocking on our door in three months or so.

Having some space from her and reading "Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders" I've decided that she's a pretty extreme E.F.P. and job stress, alcohol, my behavior toward her and the influence of this creep caused this 180 degree freak out while I was gone. If she decides to come back it will be hard to address her E.F.P. and victim mentality thinking.

edit

"- The in laws consider me part of their family even still and have supported me during all of this"

Me thinks I predicted this response...Lord I'm smart and totally DEFOGGED...I LOVE IT!! It feels SO GOOD!! DUDE

Thanks Dude. If she does come back it's going to take some serious therapy for her. I was thinking about why this really rather sudden change happened. Things were not too bad between us before I left for my trip. Well, my current working theory is that she has a pretty severe victim mentality in life. For example if she overdrafts her bank account it's always the banks fault. My guess is she met this guy and he managed to turn whatever unhappiness she had into being my fault and that she was the victim. There was a kernel of truth there as I didn't always treat her nicely, but now I think it's blown way out of proportion and she uses my controlling and critical behavior toward her to justify what she is doing.

nexus,

Let me put this to you as bluntly as I know so that this silly conversation that Dude and others have stirred up ends. You stated In this country the answer is YES! so quit defending the indefensible. Try filling for support. Try going to the hospital and making life and death decisions that only her family can make. Try filing jointly on your income tax. Try just spliting everything down the middle WITHOUT details of who bought what.

You are NOT married and you have never taken the trouble to be married so why are you NOW claiming you are married? It is just convenient to garner sympathy.

You asked can plan B effective in your situation. My best guess is yes it can be. However, your description of her and your relationship would provide ample justification in her victim mind to continue what she is doing.

If she is gone how are you two working together and addressing the issue of your comingled finances? How are you going to keep OM from using her to grab or at least access the comingled finances? How entangled are you with regard to these things?

You need to seek legal advice very soon. She doesn't seem stable and he seems pretty scuzzy.

Please think about this.

JL

Dude,

fyi...JL hasn't been a bh or a wh so you're gonna have to dig deeper into your foggy wayward thinking - reality twisting - insult box for him.

nexus...Plan B may or may not work to get your relationship back (just as it may or may not work for anyone) but it will take YOU down the road to personal recovery. I'd still send her a plan b letter so she'll know there IS a road back to you that may remain open for awhile and the conditions precedent for her to take that road.

Mr. Wondering

There have been some very silly contributions to this thread. My own about disco music are some. However, the discussion about whether Dr Harley's strategies can be applied to living together arrangements is not a "silly conversation".

At the heart of the matter is not confusion over whether nexus is legally married - even he knows that he is not! - but over whether the "piece of paper" makes any difference when it comes to using Harley advice to recover the relationship. That major issue is not "silly".

I asked you way back what you think her, "I need to be a priority" comment was about. Because of the plethora of Dudeisms, I couldn't see that there was an answer.

Did she want the paper that you knew of? Is there something to that comment?

I really, really would have LOVED for you two to have been okay without the paper if you didn't deem it important...but maybe it was important TO HER.

And dear JL is entriely correct...IN THIS COUNTRY, it wouldn't have mattered a fig if she was on a vetilator and dying what you would've wished for her UNLESS THERE WAS A BIT OF PAPER deeming you husband or power or attorney or such. Bits of paper can be very important - and there is a certain amount of safety knowing that my loved one has my back like that. Could it be possible she needed that safety and you didn't know it?