Sorry, had to drop off the radar for a bit. My emotional health had been steadily deteriorating and I just had to walk away from everything except my family for a little while. It helped a lot. My head feels much clearer and I'm starting to recover some of the weight I lost (for good and bad). I appreciate everyone on these forums but sometimes the clamor can be loud and it helps to take a step back.

WW and I have had some cordial discussions about custody, child support, etc. and we both agree that mediation would be the very best route, for us and the kids. We have our meeting with a lawyer to begin that process today. Preventing D does not seem possible at this point and I am learning to accept this.

OM still refuses to commit to WW although he says he has filed for legal separation. I came home last Friday and WW was crying because she had made an incomplete list of the responsibilities she would bear as a single mother and was beginning to realize the hell that was awaiting her, particularly without the support of OM.

The financial side of D is brutal. Even with minimal alimony, it's still going to be very difficult. The only solace I get is that the OM will get equally screwed, whether he commits to WW or not.

Kids know the entire picture (including pregnancy) and my DS of 5 years is beginning to ask mommy some tough questions. DD is acting out and all kids are having a tough time sleeping. This is so sad to witness. The selfishness of WWs actions are appalling clear to everyone except her (and OM).

BTW, how the heck do people endure 6 mos. of Plan A??? I don't know, maybe if my WW had considered at all some kind of healing. But from D-day on, all I've heard is the "I want divorce" mantra.

I do see signs of stress in relationship between WW and OM (he seems to be realizing some of WWs less desirable traits) but WW attitude has not changed AT ALL over the last 11 weeks or so.

So part of me feels that any attempt at doing anything constructive is simply futile. And now I'm questioning whether I even want to continue the M, should an act of God bring WW around. For the sake of my kids, I would endure the hell of R but WW has checked out.

We have minimum 6 months until the D is final so I suppose things may change - its a long time - more than twice the length of what I've already endured. Still, i don't see much to hope for right now.

No matter what, you are going to HURTING financially for several years at least. If you get the kids, you are still looking at a ton of before and after school care as well as daycare for the small kids.

If WW gets the kids or you settle on 50/50, a HUGE chunk of your check is still going to go to daycare / CS. With 4 kids, there may not be much left over for WW to get any alimony.

As for your WW, once OM dumps her or doesn't commit, I can really see her becoming a magnent for all sorts of garbage you don't want around your kids. Lowlifes have a tendency to flock to single moms with kids because they know a steady check is coming in. I really don't see a pretty ending for your WW.

Hi, InD. Sorry you've been having such a rough time. I'm glad you checked in.

I think the 6 month guidelines for Plan A are just that, guidelines. I think it's really how much you can put up with. For some people, it's 6 months, for others, it is much less. My H stuck it out for the 6 months, and to the date, that's almost exactly how long it took for my A to end. Of course, during that time, I was waffling back and forth much more than your WW seems to be doing, so I wasn't constantly throwing D in his face. I just really didn't know what I wanted to do. I was a huge mess.

I think Plan B is meant to get the BS away from the WS before they fall completely out of love because of the WS's actions, as well as allow the BS some time to heal and focus on themselves and not have to be smacked in the face with the A all the time. Of course, it's pretty darn difficult to go to Plan B when your WW is still living at home. This might be a perfect time to go to a Plan B, because that would suddenly force the OM to start meeting ALL of your WW's EN's, which, from the sound of things, I can all but guarantee you he will not be able to do. But I'm not sure how you would implement Plan B in your situation with the kids. In SAA's example couple, Jon and Sue, Jon eventually agrees to leave the home and implement a Plan B, but from everything I've heard on this site, no one seems to think this is a good idea. I have sometimes wondered why the advice on this site seems to contradict Dr. Harley's advice sometimes. I understand how the courts may see it as abandonment if the father leaves the home, but how the heck do people with children ever utilize the concept of Plan B if the BS can't leave and the WS won't?

It seems as though the reality of the situation is starting to hit your WW hard. She's starting to realize how tough things are going to be after the D. OM seems to be realizing this as well, which is probably why he's been so reluctant to commit to your WW. This thing is dying a slow and natural death. I doubt seriously that there's much chance of their fantasy "happily-ever-after" ending coming to fruition, not that there ever was much of a chance of that in the first place. But it seems that your WW and OM are finally starting to have to face reality. Reality is what kills most A's.

What you do now is totally up to you. I wouldn't say D is certain, at this point. I can't imagine that your WW is happy at the thought of being a D'd mother of 5 with no job and no education. But what do YOU want at this point? I think that's the important question that you need to be asking yourself.

Writer,

A lot of the Harley plans run counter to what a family law attorney would advise a client to do. Your plan B example is a good one. If a BS and a WS come to a separation / custody agreement that both can live with, then plan B is doable with a BS moving out.

In my experience on these boards, the logistics of plan B are much easier with a WH than a WW. A WH tends to be more willing to move out to persue the affair whereas many WW's tend to get the attitude of replacing the BS with the OM as a father figure in the kid's lives and thus are less reluctant to move out. Or, a WW would EASILY twist plan B tactics around in court to make the BH look like an uncooperative co parent. In addition, the court system is set up so a WW can throw a BH out much easier than a BH can throw a WW out.

Totally agree with PSU on this one.
InD, so sorry to see it come down like this.
How is your community of friends, family, clergy reacting to all this? Is WW getting any kind of support, emotionally?
I hope she's getting encouraged to find a way to screw her head on straight.

Ima: WW is starting to get some help from some people but she's still very much fogged in. She's a LOOOONG way from reality. I think her friends are still very wary because they don't want to condone her continuing of the A but they still want to help her. Plus, pregnancy is starting to show which is just another thing she has to deal with. It's really not going to be easy for her regardless of how things work out. It's sad to watch someone actively destroy their life and not realize they are doing so.

Wht is the divorce law like in Utah? I would think as a conservative state, fault comes into play. Are you guys in Utah? I just realized I was making an assumptin. Where are you and does fault factor in?
Your WW is in for a very rude awakening. My XWW thought she would be able to continue her nights out etc. Now ,she has the kids 6 nights a week. The kids hated the OM and made that clear. It disintegrated their relationship and she is looking haggard. No more all nghters at the bar.

Zelmo: Unfortunately, he's in CA. We're a no-fault state.

ID - I wish someone could get the point across to your wife, the motto of the IRS also applies to life and consequences:


The penalties are already adding up. But if she slides away from the consequences now, those penalties will be paid more and more by your children.

Do whatever you can and must to get this point for yourself - you must do everything you can to move those consequences away from your children back to her. Work with your bishop, a therapist from LDS Social Services, and every possible resource you can to ensure this.

This woman, your wife....should get a tubal ligation. Then, when she messes around with other men at least she will not be producing innocent/ unwanted children. She does not want or love a baby. It was a stupid accident of the affair. She should adopt the child to a loving family and get a tubal ligation so as not to produce more kids and to ruin more children's lives.

WWs mother and I were talking the other day and the unfortunate part for my WW is that she has never really been exposed to the consequences of bad decisions.

When we met, we were both 18 and living at home. We dated for 2.5 years before marriage but I was always protective of her and she always had a place to stay and someone to take care of her. When she got pregnant at 20, I stepped up, got married and made sure she and the baby were taken care of. We have always had a good lifestyle and though I got on her for spending a lot of money, we always got by enough that we could maintain our lifestyle (though not without accumulating debt...uggh). That comfort has continued up to today. But moving out with 4 kids and another on the way, with or without the other man is going to be a huge slap in the face. As I said, it's sad to watch this slow-motion train wreck.

However, I'm going to do everything I can to keep the kids close and I imagine WW will dump them on me a lot, especially once the new bundle of joy comes along. I have already negotiated weekends which means I will have them all day Sunday for Church - every Sunday. I think there will be enough opportunities to keep the kids grounded. Not that this won't affect them but hopefully I can minimize the damage.

Does MEDC ever post here any longer? He fought for custody of his kids and won.

He would strongly advise you not to give custody to your future XWW without a strong fight.

ID, you need to ask for FULL custody. You give her an inch, she'll take a mile, and she'll take your hard earned money to spend on POSOM.

The divorce is moving forward but I still have very strong feelings for my wife. I guess I can't expect 14 years of love to just disappear overnight but I keep questioning whether I'm doing the right thing.

IMO, D is to be avoided at all costs. If a marriage can be fixed then every effort should be made to do so. This past weekend (and actually the past few weeks) WW and I had a lot of time together and she seemed to be warming up to me. I found myself shifting out of D mode and back into Plan A/B/whatever. Part of me thinks I should just finish up the D and move on - start whatever new life is waiting for me. But then there's the (foolishly, maybe) optimistic side of me that says, keep working it, there's still light. But am I just being a fool? Am I just blinded by my feelings for my wife? No matter how this ends I want to make sure that I can walk away saying I did absolutely everything I could to save the marriage, but I'm not sure I feel that way right now...

What would you tell your brother to do, if he were in your situation?

Good question Cat.

But I must add that only YOU can decide when enough is enough...and I urge you to take to you knees and pray on it to figure it out.

I have read that most A's die a natural death. The general time span I have seen on this site is anywhere from 6 months to 2 years, so you are still very early in this process. I can't guarantee it, of course, but I really don't see your WW and OM getting married and living happily ever after. Like the vast majority of A's, your WW's A is more than likely going to end, and at that point, she may be willing to come back and work on your M. It's completely up to you as to what you want to do if/when that happens. No one can answer that question for you. You need to do some soul searching and figure out what is best for you and your family. If you do everything in your power to save your family and your WW still decides to leave, then at least you can walk away with a clear conscience.

If you have it in you to Plan A for a little while longer, then maybe that's what you need to do. But only you know what you can handle at this point and what you can't. I wake up everyday thankful that my H stuck it out as long as he did. That 6 months must have been awful for him, but we're still here, still a family, because he did.

If you don't feel as though you have done everything possible to save your M, maybe there's still more to be done.

While WW is still actively in the A, you need to protect your kids. The rest of you are grown-ups, and can handle whatever comes your way. The kids DO NOT need the emotional tug-of-war. Don't go Plan A/Plan B/Plan D/Plan A/etc. Make a decision that you can live with, explain it to the kids, and stick with it. They will be terribly confused if you vascillate.

Well, what I meant by that was, if you can look at the problem as if it were someone else's, you are able to see the logic of it, i.e., see solutions that are not 100% feelings based. And then see if you can apply that logic back to your own situation.