In consideration of all of the upheaval I've had in the past 4 years, and the most recent turmoil with the loss of job and moving back east again, I have been thinking a lot about faith.

Like, when you have faith, does that mean you have no pain, do you have no fear, do you know the answers will come, do you know peace will come, etc... and so on?

Is there really a plan for each of us, or are there many hard lessons to be learned, dotted by the ocassional good moment?

I had a good run there, for some time, with the Z and before Z. I don't remember much serious pain before the infidelity, not even when my mother died. Now, well, I seem to be continually dealing with trouble, loss, pain...ugh. Yes, I feel like a huge cry baby.

I would love to hear from others, about faith, what it means to you.

Let me just say that I do not believe I would have made it through the last 4+ years without faith. I'm struggling.

I think faith is what keeps me going - even though my situation seems so hopeless that I might as well just give up

I also have faith that one day I will get an answer to all the million and one questions which are going around in my head over and over again for 7 months now - so that in case WH and I don't make it at least I have a chance to personally recover - because as it stands with all the unknown I don't think I will ever take the risk of marriage again.

Except from my children I have lost nearly everything in 2009 so I have faith that 2010 will be a better year...

Bestrong, thank you for your response.

I have gotten answers along the way. Actually, my 'trip' out to AZ opened my eyes to so many things about my marriage, it's demise and my exWH. I think the distance gave me a chance to really let go and seek answers without so much pain.

I know the answers will come, but while I'm processing and moving ever so slowly forward, I want to FEEL the faith, like I have in the past. I'm just not feeling it today.

I dont believe that faith means you have no pain or that there has to be hard lessons ...For me I just think we all have our own crosses to bear and pain comes with it..life is filled with pain for everyone....I think its how you deal with it that deepens faith, like do I still beleive in God after all this pain...Yes I do....

Do I think this happened to me so I could learn some kind of lesson?....No, it just happened, but i do think that God pays attention to how we handle it ....Do I want revenge? yes...will I take out my revenge on other people? no I wont....

Sometimes, really, I wonder if this is our he77, living here on earth...and if we get through it all and still have faith that there is a GOD that loves us and helps us, and that there is good in others and we do good for others...then that is good...

I struggle too, SL...and I keep waiting for it to get better, but it just doesnt seem to...so I am no longer waiting for it to get better, I just dont think it will...But that doesnt mean that I am going to lose my faith in God..I am just gonna get through one day at a time and do the best I can with myself and DS...

Maybe this will make me closer to GOD...What gets you close I think is being stripped away of things and if you can still have faith after all that...what better faith is there...Its easy to have faith when everything goes our way, ya know?

People go through a lot worse than I did and still have faith..Those are the people I admire the most...

What really is faith? One little boy in Sunday School was asked that question and quick as a flash he replied, "Believing something you know isn't true."

And I don't know what you feel about it. I often thought that that's what faith was.

It's believing something that you know with your mind isn't true. It's some kind of overdrive that you push in with a button of some kind in your mind or your emotions. Or, somewhere as "they" say down in your heart, to get you to accept something that you know with your intellect could not possibly be true. And so many of us, in this world today are sceptical of the whole idea of faith, because we think of it as something not connected with the ordinary processes of the mind at all. It's actually opposed to the convictions of the intellect. And so many of us who have been through some kind of education and especially some kind of scientific education, get the idea that to have faith you have to in some way close your mind, or put your intellect to sleep, or ignore the conclusions of science and research.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Faith is not that kind of an irrational thing at all. Faith, in fact, is something that you and I exercise every day in our lives. And we've exercised it from the very moment we were born. I suppose it's true that your mother even encouraged you to feel that we could trust her when we lay in her arms. And we learned day by day that was true, she would not drop us, that she was reliable, and we could put our faith in her arms.

SL, FAITH is what I survived on from the absolute beginning. FAITH that no matter what I could TRUST my G-d to walk me through this whatever crap it was because I couldn't do it by myself.

FAITH is everything to me. It's what gave me the strength to go to sleep and just be willing to get up and move through the day.

My FAITH was what kept me going in the darkest of nights not believing that the pain would EVER stop or that I would EVER laugh again. But I had the grain of a mustard seed of faith that there was something better to happen.

FAITH is the hope that tomorrow will be different. Maybe not better and maybe even worse, but different.

FAITH was knowing that no matter what, I turned my will and my life over to G-d because I didn't know what else to do. Because in the bible the promises are there that G-d will turn the stuff to good if we give him the time.

I know how hard this is for you. I know how sad this makes you because you are finding happiness. But I have enough faith for both of us that one day, all your dreams, all your trials that you have been through will be understood and ONE day you will look back and say AH HA....

Ah, Queenie, there you are. I knew you would have some really good points to make on the subject. I'm only sorry I couldn't get to post this during 'high traffic' hours here.

I am a scientist, but I have never thought that faith was believing in something that wasn't true. I've always placed my faith in what I considered to be something REAL and TRUE. My faith lies in the knowledge that tomorrow WILL come and that something will change along the way, even in the smallest way.

I am a scientist, so I SEEK answers. I analyze, over analyze, take things apart, put back together (hopefully with no leftover parts )

Sometimes, this analytical thing in me keeps faith at bay, because I'm trying to FIND the answer, not giving up on the question, not letting it BE.

Faith is only as good as the one in whom or what faith is placed...

Faith in God is believing Him when He says "I know the plans I have for you" (Jer 29:11) even when we don't yet know what those plans are.

It is trusting that no matter what happens He is in charge and control. "But you, O LORD, sit enthroned forever; your renown endures through all generations." (Psalm 102:12)

It is understanding that we can trust because of what He has already done. "When the kings joined forces, when they advanced together, they saw her and were astounded; they fled in terror. Trembling seized them there, pain like that of a woman in labor. You destroyed them like ships of Tarshish shattered by an east wind." (Psalm 48:4-7)

It's knowing that even though we experience troubles, He will restore us. "Though you have made me see troubles, many and bitter, you will restore my life again; from the depths of the earth you will again bring me up. You will increase my honor and comfort me once again." (Psalm 71:20 & 21)


It isn't trusting in what is not true but merely in what is not yet seen...

Because of what we have ALREADY seen.

Mark

SL,

Sometimes the things we suffer are the consequences of what we have done...

But sometimes they are the consequences of what others have done to us...

And sometimes they are simply the consequences of living in a fallen world.

Mark

Awesome, Mark....

Ah Mark, I am so grateful that you were here today, because I have the faith in you, JT, and many others who have the knowledge of the word of where to go to help someone whose faith maybe be hurting today.

Thank you for putting it the way you did. It was on my heart, but no nearly so eloquently said.

Thank you so much, Mark. I see that I have been restored from such horrible circumstances. THAT is why I chose to seek faith after all of the troubles with infidelity. It's a struggle. Today, I struggle with the idea that there is a plan; that I'm not just tumbling along some RANDOM path.

I am suffering consequences of being ill prepared, for sure, for not settling the financial end of the divorce before picking up and moving.

I can't understand a man who doesn't want to care for his child and pay for his choices. I guess it's because I believe in consequences and right and wrong and responsibility and love.

How can he reconcile spending $700 on 'toys' for himself in one month, but not paying child support?

Ah.... wondering what a stupid, psycho wayward does is a dangerous place to go. It's ICKY as Mimi would say, it's insanity at it's best.

Oh, without a doubt there is a plan, Jeremiah 29:11 was my mantra, but to back it up, here is why....

Psalm 139
For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.
1 O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.

3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.

4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.

5 You hem me in�behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, [a] you are there.

9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,

10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,"

12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.

13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

17 How precious to [b] me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!

18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand.
When I awake,
I am still with you.

19 If only you would slay the wicked, O God!
Away from me, you bloodthirsty men!

20 They speak of you with evil intent;
your adversaries misuse your name.

21 Do I not hate those who hate you, O LORD,
and abhor those who rise up against you?

22 I have nothing but hatred for them;
I count them my enemies.

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.

24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.

I truly believe he KNOWS you. He knows just what he needs to have accomplished in your life so that he can have you not just have FAITH in him, but Completely come to TRUST him in all ways. HE LOVES you more than anyone here can because he created you special wonderful miracle and he KNOWS YOU....

I have faith that I am in the right place at the right time for the path I'm to be on. I have faith that there are no mistakes, coincidences, or accidents. That all things are happening for a reason, for the good of my journey, regardless of how hard or painful those things may seem. That all things will better me, strengthen me and make me wiser. I have faith that my way isn't the perfect way for everyone, but it's my best way. I do NOT have faith that faith will cushion me or protect me - I think too many people rely on faith to save them, not aid them. My thoughts.

Your thoughts are awesome. Thank you for posting this.

THIS is the best answer and yet so simple.

SL, for me faith is knowing God is always who He is. Never changing. I often need to know that something doesn't change. Some days my life hurts so bad I barely hang on, yet KNOWING God won't let me down, KNOWING He is always with me comforts me. I also hang on to the FACT that my sweet, sweet DS will walk, talk and be free of seizures one day. Not likely in this world but he will. That FACT alone comforts me.

"I know that plans I have for you" declares the Lord God, "Plans to prosper you and not harm you; plans to give you hope and future." Jer. 29:11

I love you JT... So very much....

Interesting topic.

Do we somehow believe that we are entitled to an easy or comfortable life? Does the difficulty of the journey somehow affect whether or not we have faith? What is the relationship between faith and how we feel?

A Pastor reminded me recently that "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of God". Does God allow us to experience these difficulties so we recognize our own frailties, so we are compelled to turn to Him and seek understanding Him through His word?
I have never experienced anything as traumatic as gut wrenching as the separation initiated by my WW. There are days when I wonder if I will ever get over the pain, loneliness and hurt. I wonder if I will ever get beyond the anger I feel regarding what this has done to my family. Yet somehow I am compelled to cling to faith in what I believe to be true.

I read with trepidation and new understanding when I read in the Scripture we are to rejoice in our sorrow and be thankful when we are tested. When I read this after my separation I thought a person would have to be nuts to subscribe to such thoughts. But, as time salves the hurt I am beginning to gain insight in what this means. In divorce care this past week I watched the video of a pastor who said "Wisdom is learned in the times of struggle, not in the times when things are going well"

As we work our way toward wholeness, perhaps it is faith in the future, faith that all things work together for a higher purpose, faith and hope in a brighter future, that keeps us moving. Without faith what is left? Just as Job had faith even when is good friends were telling him to get it over with, "curse God and die" we cling to faith, and hope for the future. Do we have faith that our struggle is not in vain?

It seems to me so much easier to contemplate issues like this when it is an intellectual exercise, it takes on a very different slant when living it. I cling to the hope and have faith that one day it will all make sense.

SL,

First of all here is this .............

I can relate to how you feel, sometimes you wonder if life is nothing but struggle. And how can you keep the faith when it seems that you are doing the right things and you are still struggling.

All i can say is that along with the struggle you have to look at the good as well. Even though it seems like leaving and having to return was a bad thing, but somehow i think it made you grow even more.

You said yourself that you were able to take a harder look at things without so much pain. Surely there had to be some good in that. And you met a wonderful person who made you know that you CAN be happy again.

And coming back is really great for your DS and i am sure not so horrible for you. And you learned that you can do it all by yourself.

Sure there will be things with the Z that will pi$$ you off big time and be unfair and you will have to be the one that makes up for it. But in the end YOU and your DS will know who was the bigger and better person. And surely that is something good.

I agree with whoever said that i think he77 is here on earth and if you can survive and still keep that faith, you have wonders awaiting you.

Take care my friend!!!

SC