Clay- this is good. I'm quoting you here so that you can come back and read what you wrote if you ever feel a moment of weakness. ((CG))

At this point the love I have for him comes and goes. Mostly because of the pain he causes my younger daughter. I still want him to come home, but only for the right reasons.

Yes, I may sound a bit defensive because I am not sorry I talked to him on Sunday. I was able to restate my feelings in a way to him that was not angry or agressive, and hopefully he gets it now. I was also able to talk to youngest about taking care of herself, and she understands and gets it now, and doesn't seem to have the guilt she did before about not wanting to see him.

Got email from OWH that there was still no contact as far as he could tell.

I am working out - using WII fit and WII active - taking long baths, and spending time in G-d's word and listening to my faith based music. Life is busy - DD's are very active in school and church.

The only thing that I am having a hard time getting used to is locking myself in my house all the time - just in case he tries again to come by.

OK - Just got a phone call from IM saying that WH wants a key to the house. He said that he works and pays the mortgage, so he should have a key. I told her that he gave up that right when he made the decision to move out.

Sent her the following email: WH having a key would work against what I am trying to do, which is preserve my love for him. He can have access to the house any time by setting up an appointment, and I will be sure I am gone, ore he can tell IM what it is he needs and I will have it on the front porch for him.

I have a feeling that this is going to get really ugly. Has anyone ever had an experience like this in plan B? I know WH is going to be REALLY mad. So mad that he may never want to come back - I guess that is why plan B is such a risk.

I hope I am having IM state things in such a way that my feelings are made clear, and I am NOT trying to be mean or vindictive. Hopefully at some point he will come to understand. I think he is still in a fog. I know he had a fantasy that he could divorce me, we would still be friends, he could still come over and see me and the kids any time he wanted, we would have BBQ's together (even stated this to me and kids), would spend all holidays together, and he could still have his OW long distance on the side.

If his name is still on the title, you might not have a legal leg here.

But you can insist on a call before he comes over, so you can vacate the premises.

I am afraid he will use it to come by unannounced. If he pushes issue, I may give in and just tell him what you said. That I don't want to be here when he is here, so he needs to inform me so I can be gone - Does his moving out not have any affect on my legal standings? He chose to move out...

Claygal, you should talk to a lawyer. The rules regarding abandonment and the right to enter the marital home vary from state to state. You may find out that you have to file a legal separation agreement to keep him out. Some states don't have LSAs.

IMO your IM is still passing on too much info. All you should have heard is "WH wants a key to the house." There's a definite improvement, don't get me wrong! I just think you could be protected a little better.

Plan B usually takes a bit of settling into, so don't take this as any kind of criticism or anything like that.

I agree with turtlehead. See a lawyer ASAP and get a legal separation, if at all possible. This man is going to throw a nasty tantrum and you need all the protection you can get.

And as an aside:


What cracks me up is that this is exactly what he was trying to do while married! For some reason, virtually all WS think that if they just get a divorce, the above description will easily happen and the only thing standing in its way was that pesky marriage!

Jon Gosselin tried to do exactly the same thing to Kate, and I would bet the house that my XWH thought the same.

And anyone who says an XBS should do all that "for the children" or "to be civilized" has got it completely backward.

Not to threadjack, but how many here had WS/XWS who seemed to think everything would be just fine and friendly, with plenty of drop-in family time, if they just got a divorce?
Mulan

Hey Mulan - I do think most waywards have that fantasy.LOL

Just had a major crash, feeling horrible, so I re-read my entire thread. Made me feel a little better about going in to plan B when I did. Reminded myself of why I did. I was having major doubts thinking I had done too early, but I know there is no turning back.

I am not in a place to file for legal separation. My WH may be different than some. He was raised with zero accountability. I am ready to stick by my plan B, but if I get too ugly, then he will continue to blame everything on me and have his parents supporting that thought. It would be a DEFINITE road to divorce for him, and make him ugly about custody, and financial support. This would go against what I am trying to accomplish, and that is to still save my marriage. So I will just continue plan B for right now. he is mad enough about that anyway.

IM is sending him an email asking him again to read my plan b letter, and telling him again that I am doing this because I want to preserve my love for him if he should decide to come back. He is very hard headed, and because of the zero accountablility thing (double whammy when combined with WW fog!) I feel it is necessary to put it back on him, and make sure he knows again that I am not being mean or spiteful, just trying to save marriage.

There are some threads here by someone called Seeking Wife, who had what seemed to be a landslide against her in terms of a strongwilled, rich, strong, mean husband. But he cheated, and she struck with all guns ablazin', and she ended up on top. She stayed strong. Once she found out what he did, there was NO waffling on her part. And that is what saved her from him and his strong-arming.

claygal - trying to appease a wayward spouse is worse than useless. He and his parents will blame you no matter what you do, because what else will they do - blame him? No way.

And trying to appease him so he "won't get ugly about custody and would only file for divorce - " girl, you've got it backwards here. Appeasement is the road to hell.

Stop worrying about what he and his family think. You should know nothing about this anyway.

Stop trying to appease him so he won't get mad and if you don't make him too mad maybe he'll come back.

Plan B is NOT to save your marriage.

Plan B is to save YOU and your children from the abuse of an adulterous spouse.

You are doing far too much appeasing here. If you are really in Plan B, you will know absolute zero about he feels, how his family feels, what he is planning, etc. That's the whole idea.

I'm not sure you really understand Plan B, and I am very worried for you. Again - trying to appease a cheating spouse is nothing but the road to hell.
Mulan

I am really not trying to appease him. Sorry it came across that way. And the only reason I know how he feels is because I know him so well, and his parents. I am really only guessing.

As far as plan b. I do understand that it is to take care of me and the girls, but alot of you contradict each other. Many have said, including Melodylane, that at least part of plan b is to give a wake up call to WH. As well as to protect myself and my heart in the event that he does want to come back. There are some on my thread who seem to think that this is working. It seems to be putting an end to his cake eating and his fantasy.

My understanding was that plan B was NOT a definite road to divorce. Maybe I have gotten the wrong information. That is where I am right now. I am just sticking to my plan B, with the hope that he will de-fog eventually. If he doesn't then I will move to legal separation with a plan for divorce. BUT that being said, I know for a fact that if I filed for a legal separation right now it WOULD lead to divorce, because of the personality of my WH. THAT is NOT my goal yet. Maybe down the road it will be.

Plan B, if done properly:

Has a 100% chance of protecting you and your family from WS abuse.

Has maybe a 50% chance of "waking up" a WS.

Therefore, it's worth doing even if all you get from it is #1. Getting #2 is just a bonus (maybe), but getting #1 is a certainty if you do Plan B correctly.
Mulan

Clay, it sounds like you should spend a little time reading the Harley's articles on Plan B. Just click away from the discussion forum and start searching the rest of the site. There's plenty of info right here, but you will be a lot less confused if you read up on it from the professionals' point of view.
IMO, Plan B is about keeping your love for the WS intact while waiting for the wayward to come around. It definitely has the effect of bringing the wayward back in many cases.
Just remember how you felt before...you and the DDs waiting around for WS to call you back. He was setting all the rules. He was cake-eating, getting the best of both worlds, and it was KILLING you and your love for him.

That is my take on Plan B also. Plan b is about protecting the love you have for your WS while the A dies a natural death. Sometimes Plan B enables a demise to the A a bit sooner, but you have no control over the A, it has it's own life.

Plan B is not a manipulation or a tactic. It is a way for the BS to protect themselves and the love they have left from the hurt of the A.

I thought I had read somewhere where Dr. Harley did not like a M to move to Plan B unless necessary because the chance for D increases. But many times when a S comes to the forum they have been living with the A for quite a while and are running on near empty.

I agree, the IM is passing along TMI. And you are probably passing back TMI. They should not be expressing your feelings to your WH, just the facts...

And another way you can protect yourself and your love, is to stop thinking about them...especially the guessing part...that will drain your love fast, if you keep him in your thoughts. Please, please, please, put him out of your mind...

I think she understands it fine. I think she faltered when he pressured her, that's all. It was a good example to her of what he is capable of. Now she knows how to protect herself from it and not get caught off guard. And she's learning about the filtering. She seems plenty strong to pull it off, imo.

message back to I/M:

Keys not available. WH primary residence is somewhere else, and landlord rules apply. Landlord may make appointments, or request materials from residence. But does not have unlimited or unsupervised access.

Just got email from OWH that my WH tried to contact her. I was assuming that it was. OWH says that OW texted WH back that she didn't want to hear from him, and that he saw the text.

Before I get yelled at from everyone on the board, I didn't seek out this info, it came to me. I am strong enough to handle it.

My question is do I tell my girls this? They already know about affair. Do I still make them go to thanksgiving with WH at his parents house? Do I see if I can make arrangements for them to see grandparents without WH? Do I just pretend like none of this happened.

Again, I am just looking for advise, not to get chastized.

No chastising from me.
I say YES you tell the children.
They need to help their dad understand that he is being an idiot.
And NO, they don't go to thanksgiving unless H has a court order. (Unless they decide they want to.)
And you can tell the WH's parents why, too, if they want to know.
Just don't talk to WH. Lock him out. Dark Plan B.
((Clay))
This is actually a good sign in some ways. It shows he's absolutely desperate. It also shows the the OW has come to her senses and is being transparent to her BH.
You should thank the OWH for sharing the news and promise him you will act on it. That doesn't mean any discussions with WH, though.

Hey Clay

Listen to Imnottheone. its spot on. Your DD are old enough to choose not to go to thanksgiving so let them have that choice.
You are a good mother and you are looking out for their best inrerest, you know them well so talk to them and listen to them when things like the above happen, do the girls know about plan B and what you are doing??
WS will be annoyed but then he shouldnt be chasing OW just because you are not allowing anymore cake-eating, and messing you around by ill move back in one day and i like my single lifestyle the next remind him one day that you are setting him free to make an informed decision (informed because he gets to see what it feels like to be single not just fantasise about what its going to be like)

Thank the OWH for the information and keep a good contact relationship with him, he is obviously on your side just dont be tempted to use the information to contact WS, could it be that he contacted OW because he knew that OWH would tell you and he was hoping you would get cross at him and abandon plan B?

No - really don't think his brain works that way. In fact, I am pretty certain that he thought I wouldn't find out about it. My guess is that he is still in his fog, and still trying to see if OW will have anything to do with him. Trying to make a huge effort to see if there is any hope. Still trying to hold on to his fantasy. She has repeatedly told him she doesn't want to hear from him.

I am more determined than ever not to break plan B. He can wallow in his own mess for awhile. Hope he is happy. girls now not returning any of his phones calls.