Thanx, I am finding this really helpful. All of my RL friends can't believe that I am not just kicking him out right now, kicking her butt and that I am even considering taking him back(when/if he wants to come back that is).

It is worth it to me. My MIL just says she doesn't get involved in these things. My SIL and his previous bestfriend say they are in complete SHOCK(my response was "tell me about it"). They just keep saying they can't believe he would do this to me and our boys because he loves us so much. I have read enough on here to see how it happened.

I am working on a solid Plan A with the suggestions from you all and we will see where it goes from there.

I do believe that his top 3 EN are Admiration, SF, and RC. I know we had many arguments in the past about not enough SF, not laughing at his jokes or thinking he is funny anymore.

He plays in a Pool League and I attend every week. I realized 3 weeks ago that I stopped showing interest in the games and he stopped talking to me about them. I started showing more interest in the games and it seemed to perk him up and even other people noticed he was talking to me more.

I thought we were going in a good direction until I found out he had taken off his wedding ring. I dunno what he is trying to do. I am going to do my best and I believe that everything happens for a reason I just hope in the end I still have a good marriage.

Here's to HOPE and FAITH.

Cowgirl --

Its really really important that you not cooperate with him.

Do not operate from a place of fear and give in to his requests, or accomodate his plan.

It is NOT ok for him to plan on leaving in February -- and you were wrong to agree to it. It is NOT ok for him to move in with OW, and you do NOT want to give the impression that you believe for one second that it will be in a spare room.

You need to change the fact that he goes out on Friday and Saturday nights without you. His most enjoyable recreational time should be spent with YOU.

It sounds like you need to change jobs so that your schedule is more available to spending time with him and time as a family.

Time to get creative, instead of just saying 'I can't afford a PI.'

You have friends, right? Ask them to help you by following him. Tell them his schedule, and ask them to cover the times when he is away from you (aside from the hours inside the work place), and tail him, with a camera.

It shouldn't be that hard to come up with a list of locations he drives to.

Also, you can buy a voice-activated recorder from Radio Shack and put it under the seat of his car (attach it with velcro) and tape who he talks to in the car.

If you're going to be away from home while he is home, borrow someone's video camera and hide it in the bookcase or something, and record the room you expect him to spend the most time in.

Find anyone you know at his work, and ask for their help in letting you know what he does there.

Ah, yes, the friends who DON'T HAVE A CLUE about marital commitment. I've got a few of those. So easy for them to say things like that, having no idea what it's really like. Come to think of it - I had the same attitude. Then it happened to me.

How do I stop him from doing anything?

I can't keep him in the house. He has told me that it is over between us so what am I supposed to do? He also told me that he doesn't want to work on anything, he is DONE. I can still save this marriage with the tools I have and I know that I have to get their A finished to truly move on but in the meantime I have to make home a place he wants to be right?

He hasn't admitted to anything beyond a friendship so he isn't acknowledging a problem with their "friendship". I tried over the past 2 years to enlighten him to the fact that they had an inappropriate relationship and it has been a major strain in our marriage. I did and said some pretty hurtful things for those 2 years and I know that it drove him away. No excuse to either of them doing this but I accept my responsibility for the part I played in the marriage breakdown.

He said "It just isn't working anymore and I just want us both to be happy." I told him I wasn't happy about this. His response is that I would be eventually.

If I am in Plan A, how do I talk to him about the feelings and the fact that I don't want him to go. I don't really know what to say to him right now. At first, I totally withdrew from him and even told him things like he wasn't part of our family anymore since he wanted to leave. I feel like I said some hurtful things because I was hurt and I felt lost. I excluded him from family things and ignored him most of the time. He became really polite to the point where he was thanking me for cooking dinner, doing laundry and even sweeping the kitchen floor. It drove me nuts and I told him so.

He is giving me a huge amount of mixed signals and I don't know what to believe when he talks to me anymore. He is possessed by something and I don't know what to say to him anymore.

What should I tell him now? Should it be that I do still love him, I don't want him to move out, I want to work on this to keep this marriage together, that I am going to do whatever it takes to stay together? Most of all that no matter what has taken place with her that I am willing to reconcile?

I am still keeping it together. Glad to get the advice from people who have done it since I know no one in RL who has. Keep it coming.

Wow what a difference a couple of hours makes. My H just called me from work and he told me that his cell phone was dead. He said he was calling to tell me that I don't have to make him dinner tonight because he is going out. I said "Tell OW I said Hi". I know it was an angry outburst but I was caught a little off guard.

I told him that I know that he is not moving in to her extra bedroom but that he is choosing her over his family and that I am not in denial about that anymore. I told him that I know that he is going out with her tonight and when the boys ask where he is I am going to tell them the truth. He was silent. I told them that when he leaves us I will also tell them the truth about that too. He said that that is my choice and it is low for me to use the boys like that. I said that I am not using the boys I am just no longer lying to them about what is going on. I don't think he was expecting this kind of conversation today I think he expected me to just say "OK see you later".

He asked me to give the boys a hug and kiss for him and tell them that he loves them and I told him NO.
I said that it is unfair to me to do that when he is not showing love to them by choosing to take time away from them to feed his addiction. I told him that I know that he feels like he loves her right now and although that is not ok with me I am willing to work through it to keep this marriage together.
His response was that there is nothing to keep together.

I am kinda falling apart right now but I am gonna try to keep strong.

cq, that was AMAZING!

Wow!

Cat: thanx it felt kinda amazing at the time that I actually had that much self control......

Well, I seem to be getting some kind of reaction out of him which I think is a positive thing anyways.

On Friday night, he came home at 930pm. I was in total shock. He usually doesn't come home until after midnight.

Then I started to do the little things suggested to me on here where I touched his hand, and even worn a PJ that showed off my "best assets". When he put the boys to bed on Saturday, he said "is there any reason you are flashing our children?" I said "Nope. It's just hot in here." I didn't even think that he noticed because I hadn't even seen him look at me.

Last night when I went to bed I kissed him on the cheek and said Good night. I woke up at 3am and noticed that he was sleeping as far away from me as possible. I could think of that as a bad sign but I actually think of it as maybe the fact that I am getting to him and he is trying to pull himself away. I think he was sure of his decision to leave and now he is confused again.
I mailed the exposure letters away to their work today so now I just wait to see what happens.

One Step at a time. Can't wait to get my books.

I think you are doing a stellar job. You are a MB poster child right now.

One thing I would caution you about is relationship talk during Plan A. This can get tricky, and is a bit of a balancing act. On the one hand, you MUST call him out on his lies. You did a great job of that by telling him you're no longer in denial etc. Don't enable his fantasy! Don't make it easy for him to tell himself "Everyone will be fine, we're all going to be happier in the long run." You're doing this part *great*.

The stuff you want to avoid is talking about what went wrong, what needs fixing, whose at fault in what areas, etc. I wouldn't even tell him that you now recognize you did things to drive him away. All he will hear is you saying "Yes I forced you to have an affair, you are innocent." Focus on eliminating those love busters and let your actions speak for themselves. Focus on you, you, you.

I wouldn't mention Marriage Builders to him either, or any of your newfound info. It's hard sometimes because as you learn the MB principles, things fall into place, lightbulbs go off, and you get excited to run share this with your spouse. He is NOT in a frame of mind to hear this right now. Later (months later, perhaps) you can bring it up but NOT NOW. Right now it will come across as huge fat Disrespectful Judgment. You, being all superior in your knowledge, preaching to him, the poor stupid incompetent. Don't go there.

So don't enable the affair, but don't examine the marriage or try to fix it yet.

Thanx for the advice on not talking about the things that went wrong. I had done that at first and I even was trying to tell him about the things that would happen when he left. Some of the things he said "I am not STUPID. I already know that stuff." and other things he said was "I am not like other people." I realized pretty quickly that that was NOT working.

I have not told him about MB. If I did I think he would actually take that as a bad sign.

I talked a bit about our relationship in the way that I said that I was willing to do whatever I had to to keep this relationship together. I also said that no matter how far this affair has gone I am still willing to stay with him and work through it.

I have been playing with the kids more in front of him and whenever they push my buttons, I make sure to take a deep breath and relax before dealing with them. WH and I have had many arguments about me not dealing with the discipline part very well so I have thrown myself right into it. I have assumed all of the Domestic responsibilities and making sure bills were taken care of etc.

I have decided that whenever he says anything remotely funny, I make sure to smile and laugh. I am going to try to say positive things about him when he is within earshot but that may be a lot harder to accomplish.

Thank you everyone for your advice so far. I hope to be able to thank you all in the best possible way, when my WH and I are recovered and happy again.

A bad sign? He's had an affair.

The worst he can do is refuse to participate. You need to start saying "this is what you need to do for me to want to recover with you."

Right now he hasn't admitted to any affair. He still says they are just friends (PUH-LEASE). He also says that there is nothing left for me to save. He says it is over and done and he is leaving no matter what I say or do.

I know he is in a total "FOG" right now and he only sees OW as a good thing and his best possible move right now. He doesn't want to work on us so I am just Plan Aing the crap right outta this marriage. I can handle it for a while and i think that I will continue it until just after he leaves. Then I wil be onto Plan B as he will be living in her home.

Right now there is no reasoning with him so I am not even trying to. I know he loves me and right now he is actually worried whenever I am late coming home from work. He thinks that I am going to leave him. I told him that I am not leaving.

I'll let the vets handle this. cowqueen, you're in a fog of your own.

Blindly trusting him is not helping you.

He is worried you are late coming home because--he is probably in an affair and as the saying goes, no one's more afraid of thieves than a thief.

I am not blindly trusting him anymore. I was trying to believe him for the past 2 years and I was hoping that he wasn't anything more than friends with her even when he was telling me he was leaving me to move into her "extra bedroom".
I am not in denial anymore but I also am not going to believe that he just stopped loving me either. He is giving me mixed signals and he is saying different things all the time.

I don't believe I am in a FOG right now I am just trying to work on this and stay positive. I am an optimist and I know to many it may seem like I am grasping at straws. Well maybe I am but those straws are what is helping me not drown.

It is hard to deal with a WH that doesn't want to be in the M anymore and before I found this site and this forum I felt alone and helpless. I know it would be a lot easier if my WH wanted to work on things but he isn't. He has been in complete withdrawal for at least 6 months previous to DDay. I am just trying to do what is best for my M with the tools and opportunities I have right now.

I am NOT giving up.

I'm not sure I would be saying this any more. WHs HATE to think that their BW wouldn't be sitting around the house, pining for them, begging for scraps. It is part of what ATTRACTS them to an affair; it feeds their ego.

IIWY, I would find some things that need to be done outside the house, where you need him to watch the kids. He gets home, you're dressed nicely, smell good, makeup on, even if you're just going to the drugstore. (but make sure you take time to go through all the magazines, no matter how long it takes!)

Let him SEE that you have a life outside of him. He needs to realize this. Many men simply don't. They think that, once they give you a wedding ring, they don't have to work at it any more - you'll stick through anything.

Teach him differently.

When I told him I wasn't leaving what I meant was that it wasn't me that was walking out the door. He keeps telling me that he thinks I am just going to pack up the kids and move and not tell him where I am going. Should I let him just think that?

I have been dressing up more and wearing perfume but I wasn't going out that much by myself. I think i will take your advice for sure. Maybe I will start watching a lot of movies at the nearest theater and take up reading some books in the car at a park. Should I tell him when I have plans though? Just something like "Oh, I am going out tomorrow after work." I am not going to tell him what I am doing, or where I am going but should I tell him anything?

I am bracing for the day when his workplace receives the exposure letter.

Why not? WHs typically cannot STAND to think that their nice, sweet wife would EVER want anything but to stay at home pining for them. That's half the appeal of having an affair - he's got two women begging for his time.

Yes, tell him you have plans. Don't shove it in his place, just couch it in terms of 'oh, can you watch the kids? I have to get somewhere tonight.'

It'll drive him crazy.

I m having a really bad day today. What do I do when I know that he is contacting her and now hiding it from me completely? He changed his password for his email today and now I searched my computer and found that he logged on to web messenger. I think that's why he changed his password so I couldn't find out what he said.

Is there a keylogger that he won't be able to find on here?

I want to just go to him and tell him to stop lying to me and I am really angry. I was supposed to go to work tonight but I can't. This morning there was a flat tire on our truck and he was late for work. I asked him if he called and he said he did but I didn't find it on redial at all.

I dunno what I am supposed to do right now. I am trying hard to be in plan A as I think Plan B would be hard to do while he is still living at home. When WS feel that BS are doing things to make it better do they do things to make us angry and try to pull away? I really don't know what it is I am supposed to do right now.

I found one sided chats.......I used WH credit card so I dunno how long I will have it on but there is enuff there that I know that they have had sex......what do I do? Do I let him stay still and do I not tell him anything and stay in Plan A