Good progress.

ftnut, you are doing the right thing by avoiding lovebusters at all cost. If you attack her now, she will be defensive and nothing will be solved. I would start talking about how you want to forgive her and how you want to have a passionate marriage yourself. Plan A is a plan for an ongoing affair, and since her affair is ended <?> you would need to focus on a plan of recovery, rather than Plan A.

First off, I would call the OMW and give her this update. Let her know that your W admitted to contacting the OM and what he told her.

When you talk this weekend, I would have a plan of recovery at the ready. That means asking her to send the no contact letter to the OM and to commit to a plan of recovery using Marriage Builders basic concepts.

Did you get the book Surviving an Affair? The plan of recovery is in that book. Another great guide is the workbook they sell here called "Five Steps to Romantic Love." It has all the questionaires you will need in it and will guide you through recovery.

If you can swing it, the Marriage Builders weekend is the probably the fastest horse to recovery. They have 3-4 a year and I don't know when the next one is. They also have an online program where they assign you a coach and you have daily access to Dr Harley. That might work best for you, since you could start it right away.

How to Survive Infidelity

Sounds good. I would tend to believe her, telling you about unprotected sex was a big one, and most of the rest of her stories check out, she seems to be telling the truth.

I would warn you against asking for too many details. What I have read here over the years, particularly with BHs, they seem to have a hard time getting the pictures out of their head.

And I understand about not ready to do a Plan A, it is though she doesn't deserve it. But be careful about getting into a punishing nature in your R. I would suggest you begin looking at EN's you have neglected of hers over the years...what was it the OM was able to fill. You have an opportunity to make a better marriage. Recovery has begun with you, and let you be the lead. Do you want a broken wife? Or do you want a healed marriage? Find her most important EN and begin to fill it...

I understand you are afraid, feel like a fool, BTDT, and it is all so fresh right now...but begin to repair your M for YOU. Begin to be a better H because YOU have it in you, be a better H for YOU. Be a better partner because this is what you are made to do, to be a good Husband and partner. Be a better husband no matter what she has done...you being a good husband doesn't have anything to do with whether you think she is a good wife or not, or if she deserves it...

Things have actually been going pretty well for the past few days. After our discussion on Wednesday, I have just avoided any affair talk for the past couple of days. I have actually done pretty well with being pleasant and avoiding any displays of anger. I have also seen a noticeable change in her since then. She seems to be acting more like her old self. We have probably spent more time together in the past week than we have in the past 6 months. We also had a really good �date� last night. I took her to her favorite Italian restaurant downtown and after dinner we ended up getting a cup of coffee and just sitting on a bench in a little downtown park talking and watching people. Things did end on a little down note though. When we got home, things were obviously heading to us sleeping together until I stopped her and told her I wasn�t quite ready for that yet. I almost couldn�t believe I was saying that, but even after so strongly wanting to reclaim that earlier in the week, when it came time to do it I just couldn�t get past the emotions. I could tell how much it hurt her, but she said she understood.

We did sit down this morning after breakfast to talk about the affair. I had a list of questions and I just started at the top. We only got to 3 questions, but the rest will just have to wait until next week. It was actually kind of weird, because I was feeling really good about my decision to work on our marriage last night, but our discussion brought back a lot of anger and questioning my decision to stay in the marriage for now. I did manage to contain my anger and not lose it with her.

I finally decided that I just had to get all the physical details so I made a list of every imaginable act and position and just asked her to answer yes or no. There�s really very little we haven�t tried in 25 years, so there wasn�t really anything that they shared that we haven�t shared. She did admit to being with both of us on the same day several times and as disturbing as this is, I take some comfort in the fact that we are almost always intimate in the mornings, so there was at least a shower or two between him and me. When asked how many times, she answered around 20 which would be about twice a week. I don�t know if this is accurate or not, but it seems about right. She also claimed that the sex wasn�t really all that great. She said the forbidden fruit type of thing made it seem incredible at the time, but that when she thinks about it now that the actual physical acts weren�t really anything all that great. I�m not sure I totally buy this because she sure seemed awfully turned on by him in her emails. Maybe she�s trying to spare my feelings. I don�t know.

Also, she gave me a complete timeline of the affair that matched up with what I had learned through the emails. So it looks like that once again she is telling me the truth. She claimed she couldn�t remember exact dates but all of the general timeframes matched up to the emails.

Finally, I asked her how many other men she had been intimate with during our marriage. She claims that this is the only one. I don�t have any proof to the contrary or really any past behaviors that would suggest it, but I�m still suspicious. Am I just being paranoid? Does someone just suddenly do this after this many years with no prior history of cheating? I can�t find one question that I�ve asked her in the past few days that she hasn�t answered honestly, but it�s just SO HARD to trust her even when I have proof that she�s being truthful.

I have one last question. I have read other threads on MB where the WS was in �the fog� and wouldn�t recommit to the marriage and this went on for weeks or months. My WW seems to be fully on board after just a few weeks. Is this possible or am I just seeing what I want to see. She has maintained NC as far as I can tell. She has answered all of my questions honestly. She�s apologized repeatedly for the past week. It almost sounds TOO good and I just need to know if this is possible or if I should be wary of this.

Some WW will only admit to what the BH can prove.

Some WW do not go through a long withdrawal.

Has WW given you total access to cell, computer, passwords, bills, to verify NC?

How did WW contact OM?

Has WW blocked OM?

Changed email, phone no. post D day?

Did WW write NC letter and have you send it?

Where does WW know OM from?

Has WW stopped seeing friends that enabled the affair?

Did you expose WW and tell OMW?

FN, the things that you are saying are reassuring. She does sound genuine. She may have been at the end of her affair and didn't know how to get out. I think your exposure pretty much cut off her path so perhaps she has accepted that it is over. She knows she can't pursue him without getting caught by either you or his wife. I would still keep an eye on her because she is in withdrawal and may very well try to contact him again.

Did you ask her to send him a no contact letter? That usually tells us how sincere the WS is.

I don't have any trouble believing this is her first affair, but I do wonder because of YOU. You had absolutely no idea she was having this affair. It came as a complete shock to you. [that is pretty rare] That tells me you don't have a good affair detector. I suspect you both have lived very separate, independent lives that makes affairs very possible. Just the fact that she was going off to spend a weekend with girlfriends hints at that. Couples who spend their leisure time apart are vulnerable to affairs.

Have you been reading Surviving an Affair and putting together ideas on how to recover your marriage? It won't be enough to just end the affair, fitnut. That would be like an alcoholic who just does STEP ONE in AA and then blows off the other steps. He never addresses his living problem and pretty soon he is back to drinking again. It is the same with adultery; unless the marriage problem is fixed, you are facing more of the same.

I really wish you would take a good look at some of the counseling programs at Marriage Builders. They are well worth every penny. Either through the online program [which assigns you a marriage coach] or through phone coaching with one of the Harley kids, they can help you build a new marriage that is affair proof. My H and I went to a MB weekend a few years ago and it really made an amazing difference. Even after I had read all the books and spent time on this forum for years.

You are doing great, fitnut! Hang in there and keep us posted.

Fitnut

I've been following this thread and have not responded but feel compelled to do so.

First let me tell you that I am a FWW 14+ months past D-day and am doing okay but still suffering the consequences of my actions. I want to just reiterate to you that this discovery stuff is to be done on your terms (i.e., the answering of questions, etc.) So, you have a list of all questions that you two have agreed to only discuss on Saturdays but, you were only able to get 3 from your "list" answered. Why is this?

My BH sat me down on a daily basis and pretty much just interrogated me at will and I sat there and answered as long as he was sitting there asking.

I guess my point is that she needs to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes. In my case, I was made to leave my job, pack up my home, leave my hometown, daughter, parents, all family and friends and move away to another state to which I would equate to as being about the same as being on Mars. The WS does not get to call the shots at this point, unless she wants to pick up and leave. It takes whatever for however long.

Also, I wanted to ask you if you have asked her to read the SAA book and whether or not you have turned OMW onto MB? This may be a good thing for her to start using too because if she can recover by getting her WH into working the MB plans, the less chance of your W and OM starting it back up again.

My A was 2nd for me with same OM over 18 years so, if I had had MB back in the early '90s it may have prevented me from making the same mistake again.

You need to get your WW reading and get her to agree to work the MB practices. She is going to be in withdrawal for a while and it is awful--then having to examine herself to understand why she did this and what she needs to do to improve herself--it takes a while.

Do not give her trust--she must earn your trust because as you have seen she is not deserving of anything of the sort right now. Yeah, she may have told you a few truths so far but, this doesn't constitute trust.

You are doing well but it is a long road. And, let me also add that I about fell out of my chair when I read about the oral on the deck with you and son inside the house...That is about the boldest thing I have ever heard. And, your story has given me alot of insight to the BS side...good luck to you.

Just to answer a few questions, she did write a NC letter and I mailed it yesterday. Also, she has given me all of her email and passwords and she agreed to allow me to change her cell phone number last week.

I read through SAA last week and it is a tremendous help. I showed it to her on Saturday and she said she would read it. I left it on a table in the family room so, I'll keep an eye on it and see if she's looked at it.

From everything I've read and heard, she is doing everything you could ever hope a wayward would do to begin recovery. At this point, I'm the one whose still just so unsure about things, one minute I'm on board for recovery amd the next moment I'm questioning myself as to why I'm trying. But, things seem to get a little clearer in my mind every day. I think that as long as she continues to be truthful and committed i will be more and more convinced that I'm doing the right thing.

You have not said anything about STD tests. You say you withdrew from being intimate the other night because you could not face that, but you might not feel like that for long.

You need to organise the tests and go through with them.

You also did not answer any of my questions either. I have a gut feeling that you are going to be too quick to give her trust again. Right now, she is just wanting everything to go back to being "normal" and she also does not want you asking her any more questions but I will tell you that on the inside, she is not feeling normal and you need to be careful.

Dawn's points are important, and they bring to my mind Pep's thread "the run of the mill WW".

In that, Pep proposed that there were two types of WW. I will simplify by saying that the first had a conscience, and the affair was an aberration of character for her. MB stood a better chance of working on this type because she recognised that she was doing wrong.

The second had no conscience about her affairs, which were a lifestyle choice. If busted in an affair she might well move on to another one when the dust died down.

One poster, rprynne, doubted that there were in fact two types. He suggested that all WWs display behaviours from both types, depending on the stage in their affairs.

Your wife indulged in outrageous affair behaviour, and I think you have wondered whether this could have been the first affair for her. StillDawn expresses shock at this too.

You are now saying that she has moved on very quickly from the shock of being discovered and is not showing any symptoms of unhappiness, conscience or withdrawal. This makes me wonder about her attitude and disposition to affairs. If she is in "type two" phase, your marriage is at great risk.

FN, your WW sounds sincere to me. And you sound like a "normal" BS. You're pretty early into R right now, so expect your emotions to really run the gamut for awhile...sometimes calm and accepting, sometimes grieving, sometimes ready to toss her a@@ to the curb. That's very normal. You're in the process of incorporating this tragedy into the fabric of your marriage. You can make it work for both of you and you can build on this. Don't forget that when you're in the valley of emotion.

My FWHs A was dwindling when he was exposed by OWH. He exhibited some withdrawal in the month prior to exposure because he was trying to end the A and didn't know how. So his withdrawal came out as crankiness, highs and lows in attitude, manic-type behavior, picking fights...as soon as he confessed to me that fell away and he showed extreme remorse. It's been 9 months and he still makes 1000% effort in rebuilding our M. I think your W may be the same way. Good luck. You can do this!

Still doesn't explain why FN was only able to get 3 questions answered out of his entire list of questions...she is conflict avoiding IMO.

Sometimes conflict-avoiding WSs start out in leaps and jerks. It was so distressing for my FWH to answer questions at first. So it started out with me putting my "10 most important questions" down on paper and giving them to him one at a time. (HA! Like I only had 10!) He'd read it and respond after a bit of time. As he got more comfortable answering, and realized that I wasn't going to explode/leave him/beat him up, etc., he got better at answering, and I got better at asking. It got to where we were able to sit down and go through the whole thing analytically. He also realized that it was therapeutic for HIM to go through it with me. FN and his WW may be the same way. Although conflict-avoiding IS the hallmark of that style of answering (witness the way I had to work with MY conflict-avoider) . But it definitely doesn't mean the questions won't get answered.

Dawn,

I apologize for not answering you earlier, but to be honest this whole thing is just overwhelming and I find that I have to read things several times for them to really sink in. But, to answer your questions:

First, we only covered 3 questions Saturday because that was all I could handle at the time. She has been willing to answer any questions and do anything that I�ve asked. The idea of only having this Q&A once a week was also my idea because I needed to try and quit focusing on it 24/7. But, to be totally honest, even though she is doing everything that I ask of her, I�m still struggling to trust her.

I have read SAA once and am planning on reading it again this week. I have asked her to read it and she promised that she would. I have left it out in the family room on the table by where she normally sits. I guess I�ll find out if she really meant that she would read it or if she was just appeasing Fitnut. I have also mentioned MB to OMW, but I don�t know if she�s checked it out or not.

Also, Melody mentioned that my �affair detector� may be faulty. That one has really had me thinking. She�s swears that this is the only time she�s been unfaithful, but I missed this one so completely that it certainly raises doubts in my mind. Mel you also mentioned that we seem to have lived independent lives and that is certainly true. I guess I should give you a little background for reference.

For the first 10 years of our marriage, I played professional football for 4 different teams. Because of the transient nature of this profession, we decided when our first DS was born to build a house near our families where she and DS could have some normalcy in their lives. I always had an apartment in the city where I was playing and she would bring DS and stay in the apartment when we had home games and I would spend the off season at home with them (basically from Jan-Jul). But there was a lot of time apart and we became 2 fairly independent people. This became even worse after DS2 was born because it was more difficult for her to travel with 2 small kids, so there were times when we wouldn�t see each other for a month. After I retired, she began a career teaching. She had always wanted a career and mine had always prevented it so I was glad to see her finally get her chance. I became a Certified Personal Trainer to keep myself busy and eventually opened my own gym which has now grown to 3 gyms. As you can tell, we have probably spent way too much time engrossed in careers and not nearly enough nurturing our marriage.

Obviously, we have a lot of work to do. I read where Dr Harley recommends that couples spend at least 15 hr/wk together. I doubt we average spending any more than 1-2 hours a week together where it�s just us. I am excited about what I have learned from MB so far and I have already ordered HNHN also. I have also printed out the ENQ and LBQ and I plan to ask her to do those so that we can discuss them during our time together on Saturday. I am also intrigued by the idea of the MB weekend and definitely plan to look into that.

FN,

It sounds as if you're making great strides and I appreciate you answering my questions and I completely understand.

I want to warn you again though to not be too trusting too early. You are still very early into this. I too am reading SAA--it's taken me a very long time to get to it and it's helping me very much.

It is definitely going to take having your WW's cooperation though.

And, I completely understand about the independent lifestyles. My BH travels alot too sometimes being gone for months at a time but it's the nature of his job. I left my job to move to another state last year after my Dday and with the economy as it is today I have yet to find another job so, I am a stay at home person and with no young children--it's quite depressing.
But, enough about me.

I am glad to hear that things are at least moving in the right direction for you--you are doing a good job, sir.

Did you play in the NFL? That's pretty awesome!!! Best of luck to you but please don't get too trusting to quickly. Withdrawal is awful and to be honest, I'm still struggling to overcome it in many ways.

fitnut,

Read this paragraph again

For you to regain trust, you will need to hone your affair detector, I would call it a "BS" detector but that would be too confusing given all of the abbreviations.

Trust is something that accumulates over time. Don't be too worried that you don't trust her now...you should not.

After all trust is the ability to predict someones responses to different situations and it is based on past experienced weighted most heavily by the most recent experience. I would say that you have at least 2 years before you could or should have full trust in her even if she does everything perfectly.

I don't mean to imply that you will feel as you do now, things can and will improve, but deep down your trust will take years to fully recover and there will always now be a part of you that is vigilant.

Interestingly, Harley points out that blind trust is almost never good for a marraige. And one of the reasons is just what you pointed out, independent lives and choices are often the resutl of blind trust.

So your lack of trust in understandable, just know that recovery of that is measured in years, and frankly you should NEVER get back to the kind of trust you had in the past. It is not good for the marriage. I will offer you a famous statement by Ronald Reagan, "Trust but verify".

You will get there, just give it time and have patience. And by patience, have patience with yourself.

God Bless,

JL

FN, yes, the 15 hours is key to creating romantic love. And that is what MB aims to do. MB does not believe that romantic love has to die in a marriage. This is what the program strives to acheive and we have found in our own marriage that it really does work. We went to the MB weekend in 2007 and it made a huge difference.

Secondly, Dr Harley believes that couples should NEVER spend the night apart. Spending nights apart is an invitation for an affair and he is dead set against it.

I am posting the down and dirty of requirements for recovery for you - please read carefully:

Requirements for Recovery

I just wish you would kick that potbellied weasel OM's [censored], so I could get a vicarious thrill.
Horsecollar him, or whip a crackback block on him and blow out his ACL. How about a leg whip?

What other work are you both doing, how are you repairing the M? Have you filled out the EN and LB questionnaires?