You guys are a good support group, and have excellent suggestions and perspectives - thanks.

JL, you have a very good point - it would be difficult to undo the judge's ruling, and possibly counterproductive to spend time on that instead of our relationship. I think it's a fine balance that we need to find, and lots of it will take time. And while both my H and I would like a magic, immediate solution, we know that's not realistic. We/I talk a lot in terms of "20 years from now..." where everything has worked out, we have a relationship that's better than ever - hopefully that's what happens for us.

TR, as far as a BS not needing a divorce - I'm guessing it's a pretty individual thing. Certainly it's not a great thing that either my husband or I would be happy about, but if he feels that's one way to help him focus more on reconciliation, then I think it's worth it. Also, the documents that would go along with the legal divorce settle issues now, while we're not as emotional as we may be if things go south with the relationship. (e.g., issues about child custody, marital settlement/support, etc.) But JL's right, too - this may all be a moot point now, and we have to figure out how to proceed from here.

There was also a suggestion earlier to see if H would consider using the MB boards here as a resource. I think that's a good idea, a nice, real-life supplement to Dr. Harley's books. Is there a thread/section for how betrayed spouses (successfully) recover(ed)? I don't think he'd be opposed to checking things out here, but ultimately I think it comes down to me and how he feels about me, the changes I'm making, etc.

For any BSs out there, how do you (if you were able to) reconcile with the decision your WS made to have an affair? And what if your WS went back to the OM/W after you guys had started trying to fix things (regardless of whether you, the BS, knew about the affair at the time or not) -- how did that play out? (Yes, I did that. And knowing that, that I made that/those decisions when my husband was already hurting, is one of the worst feelings I think I will ever have. I will regret it and hate myself forever for doing that. And it's details like that that make this that much harder for my husband to decide whether it's worth it or not to come back.)

So, I guess that's enough of an update for now. Therapy in a little bit for me, then couples counseling tonight. Not with a MB therapist/counselor, but a good, insightful lady nonetheless. I still welcome any and all advice - thanks again.

BS2008,

I think it is actually pretty common for adulterers to slide back to their cheating partners. It probably does reduce your chances of recovery, sorry but I think that is true.

I have been thinking about your D issue. I am appalled at the judge but it may not be worth fixing it right now. I think you should sit down with your H and make a legal plan, write it all down and then see a D attorney to see what you can codify to help bring him some comfort. I bet you can file a legal and financial separation immediately and then do the D once the baby is born.

What is you H thinking regarding the baby? That little innocent child is going to have some rough time ahead.

Hi all -

Sorry for the lack of communication. Was out of town staying w/ my family (in very rural US) for the past week.

I think H and I have decided not much can be done about the legal divorce at this point, so we'll try and focus on moving ahead.

In the meantime, I have a few questions, if anyone would like to toss out answers or insight to these:

Question 1: BSs, is it always clear to you that you want your WS back? It seems like so much of the advice and plans put together by Dr. Harley are geared towards that mindset/those who've made that decision. (This is sort of a re-hash of the original subject of this thread, but wanted to see if there are any personal stories out there.)

Question 2: WSs, how do you learn to live with yourself - an A is always a part of your past, part of you, and how do you reconcile that w/ being a better person and moving forward?

So - faith, hope, hard work, and love. That's the game plan for now. Thanks, everyone

Welcome back BS2008,

1. There are lots of stories here where the BS did not want the WS back. Most of the people here recommend that both spouses wait until 6 mo after Dday to decide what they really want. Almost everyone recognizes the BS absolute right to demand a divorce and some of them do.

2. There are also alot of stories about WS living with themselves. I think both spouses will have a difficult road. One is always a cheater, and the other has always been cheated on.

You have a point, 6YL - I can see why people take time to really decide what they want, what will work, etc. I think it's hard for my H and I to do that and not feel pressure, especially with our 2nd child expected March/April of next year.

Another question: would people recommend the MB Weekend in January? How helpful is it post-A? How different is it, if at all, from Dr. Harley's books? Thinking about signing us up for it, but want to make sure it's not a rehash of what info we already have.

Thanks

BS2008,

Well I guess the overreaching judge gave you both the time to sort out your thoughts on this. I am sorry that this time of happiness with a new child on the way is tainted with pain for both of you. I have a child coming in my family with mixed feelings around it as well. It is difficult.

B_S,

I have never been to the Harley MB weekend, but everyone that writes here who have been there say it is very good. I will tell you this, they know this stuff and marriages backwards and forwards. If your H is willing I would urge you to try it.

B_S, one of the secrets of the Harley approach is that it provides time for WS and BS to cool off, look at things from a new perspective, and learn new and better ways to handle the difficulties in the marriage. Often the BS does not know if they want to save the marriage, but they think they might. Often the WS does not want to save the marriage, but after exposure, plan A, and even plan B, they begin to think they might.

The actual recovery and rebuilding is a years long process, but it starts with Harleys 4 rules for a good marriage, and it makes use of the policies of Radical Honesty and JOint Agreement. Dr. Harley even claims one should not divorce unless it is POJA'd.

Your H is going to go up and down on this issue for awhile. It is called the rollercoaster ride and it is not named that for nothing. At 6 months or so you can expect more anger, at a year, the BS often wonders to themselves "did I really do the right thing." You must realize that the person the BS trusts least is often themselves. Their self-image has been destroyed.

The person they loved was capable of lying to them but worse they were capable of fooling them. They often feel that their spouse has not found them "good enough", and that they cannot compete with OM. Add to this that you did not treat your H well before, and he ask to be asking himself. "Let's see she did not care for me, she just used me, she had an affair. Do I really want to sign up for more of this?"

The answer is YES IF, you gain new perspective on marriage and more specifically your H. It is YES, if you treat him differently, respect him, and begin to actually love him (love being actions not just words or feelings).

IN short he has doubts about you, but more about himself and what it would mean if he lets you back into his life.

I would see if he would go to the MB weekend. I would also show him by your actions that you are changed and see things differently. Actions mean much more than words, thus I would recommend few relationship talks for a few months, unless he wants to talk. I would however, recommend a lot of time together, fun, jokes, and less tension in the air. You are his W act like one...a loving one.

God Bless,

JL

Wow... I'll join the chorus and echo how odd it is that I've suddenly lost the past 10-11 months. It's like they never existed, yet it feels like we've been living this forever. I'm surprisingly unsettled.

But that's not why I'm posting today, so: I read a comment on another thread.


Just... I'm adding this to my list of comments, usually made by vets and particularly veteran BSs, that make me uneasy and fearful. (Another one that constantly runs through my mind is Mel's from a while back re: if she knew what she knows now, would she have married her H - and her answer was so unequivocally no, no matter what M they have now, no matter how good things may be, and I know my BH is of exactly the same mindset. Anyway, back to the point today...)

This gets me not because I feel like saying to my BH the equivalent of "get over it, or get out of here," but because I have those same fears that SC originally expressed. I was that person before, and I feel like being that person/having an A was like me welcoming in something evil that will now never go away. Like, I can control it and guard against it and make myself a better person on the outside - but it won't ever reach entirely, 100%, in totality to the inside because there will always be that stain there of who I was, of my adultery.

Let me try to say this another way: clearly, I had the A, so - at least at some point in time - I didn't think it was "bad enough." What if my judgment of adultery post-A will never be "low" enough? My decision to have an A also clearly exhibited a complete lack of compassion for my BS. What if I am never as compassionate as I can/should/need to be, as compassionate as normal/non-WS are?

I'm not really going anywhere w/ this post, just sharing my fears of being forever tarnished (true) and unable to rise above it, so to speak. I am NOT saying anything like "I think I will have an A again, I already messed up so what's the use now," etc. Also not suggesting at all that my BH should "just get over it." Just saying, I guess, that I have those same fears about myself that SC outlined from a BS's perspective.

Ugh, this bears repeating: I am NOT saying anything like "I think I will have an A again, I already messed up so what's the use now," etc. I'm probably going to get clobbered anyway...maybe the forum upgrades will include a smiley w/ a hardhat on...

Some folk NEVER get an apology. This slows restoration.

I suspect there is no apology because of pride and fear in their own hearts. I believe this defeats the concept of sharing ones failure with their partner. At some point, your partner must feel safe with you as you continue the process of radical sharing.

Part of the problem is that people need a radical sharing ear. This needs to be cultivated. I think that once this relationship develops, the affair questions will become incidental in the bigger revelation.

Changing topic. Your relationship with your husband was getting quite close at a point. How are you guys doing now?

B_S,

Is this you?

Is this what you do, or have regularly done? If not, then why are you identifying with it?

What I said about my feelings (and Mrs lg's possible feelings) were based on my H's, and lg's responses to our depression or triggers. I quoted from lg's post to show that his response, at least that once, might be felt as a lack of compassion by his wife, and indeed she might see it as his lack of responsibility for the affair. In my case, that perceived lack of compassion has contributed to my feelings about my H.

Those feelings cannot be taken out of context and applied to any and every worried and repentant FWS, like you. If the cap does not fit, why are you trying to squeeze into it?

B_S, stop making it sound as if another affair is out of your control. It is firmly within your control. Of course you can rise above what you once were; just choose to behave well from now on. You were an adulterer because of what you DID, not because of some essence within you that is part of who you are.

I can understand why you might worry about how H sees you (for a while, at least, but this will change); what I don't understand is why you worry about what you really are. There is no mystery to this; commit fully to protecting your H and rebuilding your marriage, and even if the marriage fails, you will never again be an adulterer.

You deserve far more credit than you are giving yourself. Now please stop agonising, because you are beginning to sound self-indulgent. Find someone to model yourself on and take control of who you are in the future. I recommend Mrs Wondering as that model.

PS, that was a harsh post, S_B, because I'm shouting in your ear trying to make you understand. I believe in the possibility of marital rebuilding. It works when both spouses commit to it, and each learns what to do to protect the other. It has not fully happened for me and might not for you, but don't let that be because you stay paralysed with fear and self-doubt. Your H might one day let you back in. Show compassion to him when he hurts and from this minute on, be the wife that you should always have been.

S_B,

You and your H are young. Yes you will be "stained" with what you have done, but perhaps not the way you think you will be. YOu feel that "stain" now, but in the years to come, that "stain" can turn into something far different. You and your H are too young yet to understand, that often what makes a person is NOT their mistakes but how they address those mistakes, learn from them, and change their lives.

I really don't like bringing religion into this, and perhaps what I am about to say exists in other religions and it is just my ignorance. But, in the Christian faith, there is the concept of "grace", of granting someone forgivness that they cannot possibly ever make up for what they did. An act of "grace" is doing just that.

You cannot make up for what you did. You cannot redo what you did. You cannot erase from your H's mind what you did. BUT, you can become a person you are proud of. You can be a great mother, eventually a fine and compassionate physician, and for sure they type of woman that any man would be proud to call their W. That is YOUR job.

Your H's if he chooses is to eventually through an act of "grace" grant you forgiveness and a second chance at being the W and mother you can and want to be. He does not have to do this and he may not be strong enough to do it. But, it is there for him to do IF he decides to.

So why am I talking to you about something your H can or perhaps won't do? I am telling you this because your affair no matter how poorly it reflects on you is NOT a death sentence. It is not even a marriage ender, or a family destroyer, IF you use what you learn wisely. There is a path by which your H can grant you what you will need so that you are not "stained" forever by what you did. You will be changed but not stained.

I hope that through all of this you will gain the maturity to see the future what it is...yours to live. I hope that your H gains the maturity to understand the concept of acting with "grace", while realizing you cannot "make up" for what you did, but you can change and be the W you both want and need you to be.

You are not ruined, you are "just learning".

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

imagine - Thank you for your points. And thank you for asking how we're doing! Things are going well, I think. It's different being 1 year+ out from D-day, and while not every day is a complete walk in the park, the rollercoaster's extreme ups and downs are fewer and farther between.

A lot of this "things going well" is due to the fact that we have children together - they're the reason my BH decided to stay and see if this can work. We are planning for the future, making some serious life decisions (work, where we'll live, etc.), and we are actually having some good days along the way!

If this continues, I wonder what kind of M we'll have in 2 years...10 years... 20 years... !

SC - Thank you, I needed that.

You wrote:

You are absolutely right, and I should acknowledge that, yes, unequivocally, the decision to have an A is (and always was) in my control, and I have promised myself and my BH that that will never happen again.

You captured my (unfounded and downright silly) worry w/ the part I quoted in red. I think I'm feeling tainted and changed/different because of that - I never thought I could do something like this, yet I did, and so who am I as a person?

But you're right. I don't need to be sitting here creating all of these worries and being paralyzed w/ fear and emotion and depression. Instead I need to learn and work to be the person I want to be and the wife my H deserves.

I think the downer days and crazy thoughts are partially due to the "dualing recoveries" conflict. I did this, I can't recover "faster" than my BH, I can't move past this and leave him behind in it - and thus follow the crazy thoughts. My H does a very good job of talking me through this stuff, and I need to be realistic and just be sure we keep communicating.

But now: I am off to find my bootstraps...

J_L - You bring up many things I need to keep in mind, and summed things up nicely:


I did a ruinous thing, and while some days may seem bleak and full of nothing but complete ruination, there is a more healthy, balanced perspective to take - and that's that I should work on being a good person and the W my H needs/deserves. I'm learning.

B_S, I have never written to you before, but so much of what you wrote earlier, wondering if the stain would be forever, wondering if it would ever "be enough," so to speak, sounded like me. I had an A a little over 3 years ago, and for a long, long time, I thought I would wear a scarlet letter forever. These are some things that helped me:

Initially (and you have already done these) - owning what you have done, taking responsibility, repenting, being honest. This is big. Do you realize how many people cheat and never tell or just walk away? The fact that you are still here fighting says at least as much about you today as the affair.

In the process - focusing on my marriage, not just what I had done. This was the real key for us. I was always willing to have my husband talk, vent, ask, etc. about the affair. But I found that when out side of those times my main focus was us and not what I did, I was a better wife, and H felt better too.

Recently - it has been three years, and I know who I am. And it is more than what I did. I am a married mother of two, not a woman who cheated three years ago. And though I will never minimize the gravity of that choice, I will not live under it any more, and I will not let someone else put me under it. That took guts for me. I was afraid if I stood up like that (inside), that it meant I wasn't still sorry for the affair. It was actually my husband who broke those chains a few weeks ago. And they have been broken ever since.

If you know in your heart of hearts that you are doing and being all you can as a wife and mother, and if you and your H are committed to each other and recovery, then don't let anything distract you. This journey is tough, but it can be exciting too.

I posted this on my thread, but it seems to fit here too. My H wrote it on his FB page.
Life is like Searut's painting, "A Sunday Afternoon on the Isle of Grande Jatte." It's made up of a bunch of beautiful dots and a bunch of ugly dots. But, you can't see the beauty in the painting and it doesn't come into focus unless you back away from it. Once you are far enough away, you will see that the dots work together to create shapes of people enjoying a lazy Sunday afternoon beside the sea. So, remember to not stare at the ugly blobs...back away from the painting and see the big picture.

Lurioosi - thank you for this. I'm happy that you and your H are coming out of this together, and that the scarlet letter feelings are diminishing (in a good way, not in a "forget it ever happened" kind of way!). There is hope!

I especially am grateful for your advice. You're right that focusing on the M - and not just my A and what it did to us - is huge. I realize that, as you pointed out about your experience, that when I am more present in the M (and not in the past of the A) I am a better wife, mother, homemaker, and me. I struggle with this, though, and the feeling that I can't move past the A - that if I stop dwelling in the A, and my BH is clearly still recovering from it, that I'm not paying my dues, not offering just compensation/suffering, not being repentant enough. I think this is where your 3rd point comes into play:


I need to find this balance. And I need to trust what my BH says re: all of this and stop being ruled by my crazy thoughts! Your H's simile is appropriate - I need to look at the big picture and stop focusing on just the ugly dots that go into it.

Thanks again for the words of wisdom and experience. It helps - and it would probably help if I stopped emoting all over MB!

Moved to recovery at thread starters request.

Figured it's time to stop worrying about jinxing things if I requested this move to Recovery... And thought my occasional emoting on MB would be better-suited to here than the SAA forum.

So... It's good and scary to be here! (Thanks for the move, mods!)

Welcome to recovery

We're a quiet, gentle lot over here, very serious and prone to moments of great introspect...

oh wait, thats not recovery at all

welcome anyway