Actually she makes the majority of money for us - it may be that she is looking for LESS work?

TOF -

I feel like I should let the vets handle this, but I also wanted to offer a few thoughts.

You seem to be in that dangerous position of indecisiveness at a pivotal point in time re: your WW's A(s?) and your M. Too many times BHs come here caught up (and VERY UNDERSTANDBLY SO) in the emotions of betrayal, and I feel they are missing a critical window of opportunity in quashing the A.

I am puzzled as to why you, an MB old-timer, would adopt such a precarious, casting-about attitude. You seem to be looking around to figure out why this happened, and you seem to be fixating on 'how could she do this?' Those are extremely important and valid ideas, but IMVHO now is not the time to spend your energy on figuring those out. (As they say here, get your WS "back" first, then make decisions about the M/recovery later. I would put these types of questions/ideas into that same file. Unless you are done w/ the M, but you seem conflicted and wanting to recover...)

Right now, you need a plan. A plan will give you decisive actions that will speak volumes to your WW, and, more importantly, will focus you (and hopefully help you decide what you want your life to look like and what kind of person you will come out of this as.)

You mentioned you confronted your wife re: her A... And things are continuing like this? Your WW does not get to call the shots. She has zero ability right now to care for you or your M, or to make any decisions that do NOT give her another fix. (Aside: I could extrapolate on this multiple OM idea, too, at some other time if you'd like.)

I've often said one of the things that helped "de-fog" me so quickly were the swift and decisive actions of my BH. I knew he wasn't messing around, I knew he had a backbone - I knew what his boundaries were and that he would enforce them.

I want you guys to fix this...not only for your M, but for all you represent as an MB-founded M. It gives me hope and assures me things are right in the world if you MBers recover.

She makes most of the money yet she has only a couple dollars with her when she was trying to see the lover? It makes no sense.

TOF -

Please, let me apologize for my previous post. It minimizes all you are going through right now, and that was certainly not my intention.

You just had your world knocked off its axis. It takes a while to grow accustomed to the new tilt, and I think my earlier post minimized that.

Again, apologies.

I hardly post or read here anymore, and perhaps after this response you'll agree that I shoulda stayed that way, but I'll post anyway and I hope my post is taken in the right light (trying to help).


This comment made me think back to my years of reading CJ's posts, and having a number of discussions with her (not all of them pretty, I must say). One thing that struck a raw nerve with CJ was when I at one point asked her if perhaps like her ex, who apparently had serious bipolar disorder, she too had a slight BP tendency. IMO, she exhibited a number of traits that I would normally associate with that disorder. In response, she basically chewed me a new one, so I dropped that line of questioning, and, frankly, most other interactions with her.

But, seeing the quote above reminds me that this is exactly what is often said about folks going through a manic episode, so I just want to float this as a thought. Also, recall that manic episodes happen on roughly 7 year centers, and by my math, the timing is just about right. Do you think there is any chance that this is what's at play, TOF?

Anyway, I am just trying to help, and I hope that this is indeed helpful. I hope no one interprets this post as an attempt to bash CJ.

AGG

Think nothing of it - I understood your point. Just to let you know, I post whatever is going through my heart at the time on here - hoping for correction and advice - but in real life, I am proceeding pretty much straight forward.

UPDATE:

After exposure yesterday I believe one of the current affairs has been halted. I say believe because I have no absolute proof yet, and we spent most of yesterday talking with little other action. There is nothing in her email, nor her faux facebook page, nor on the chat logs I have access to that show any contact - with one exception...

I think he may have contacted her briefly on another chat program (I'm going to have to get that chat log forwarded to a shared folder) that left her devastated - we were preparing to make a run to the store and she checked her computer for a moment, and then broke down into hysterical tears. She wouldn't tell me exactly why, but stated that she was going to delete all of her chat programs and online accounts.

From that (and that is really poor evidence) I sort of made a preliminary deduction that OM was not pleased to find that she was married with children.

In any event, after work today, things will continue: she still has all of her chat programs and online accounts active (I've been loggin on to see any activity.) I'm requesting that those all go - and that she only have agreed upon chat programs and that I have complete access. Same with the email.

There's a lot of fog involved - ironically, one of the blessings of having been here before is that I am almost immune to it - all of the things I learnt before are coming back - including bouncing the statements back. But I have to tell you all that this is extremely painful - watching CJ go through all the same motions she taught people to detect and disassemble over the years is taking a huge toll on me. I am tired, I am sad, and I am so skeptical. I hate this a lot.

TO agg -

Wow - you know, I had not thought of this. Of course, from where I am right now, I have absolutely no idea - its an entirely new concept - something that I definitely intend to look into (her son appears to suffer this disorder as well) - Have to take that one step at a time though...


Personally I did not take it as such - to me its more like what is going through the back of my mind: "...What on earth? How could this happen??????..."

AGG,

Very good catch. I do sort of remember that conversation you had with CJ. It has been a long time. Her behavior certainly does seem to reflect a BP tendency and would explain what most of us are having a hard time understanding given her time here.

Nice Job. This site needs a few "historians" on it just for things like this.

JL

TOF,

First thing when betrayed by infidelity is to focus on what you did or didn't do to bring it about. You've forgotten that's common. It's you casting about for control...if you can be at fault, you can fix.

Not real, just very normal, understandable.

Maybe the one thing you didn't come completely to terms with in your first marriage when you were betrayed...was that you did not have control...and this time, you truly will. When you conflict avoid, you are actually acting to control. Seems like the opposite...it isn't. It's the one part of your pattern not changed from marriage to marriage.

Real respect of others means you embrace and hold yourself to NOT controlling (it's fantasy)...means you respect your spouse is capable, at any time, of making horrendous choices. And they do, and they have, in your experience.

The one choice I don't see you having made is to get out of the way of someone else's consequences...and that's about control, too.

Stepping aside is a crucial part of love. It means you do not lie to teenagers about where your wife is, what she is doing...and you do not bow down to lying so you won't be SEEN as vindictive, punishing...you stop justifying. Again, it's control. Sneaky, hard to see--still is.

You state the truth and trust others will deal with the truth. Because they will. And you won't keep crossing boundaries in subtle ways, in confusion...inside yourself. You'll respect your boundaries--they are healthy and helpful. Even when they feel otherwise. Like honesty. You stay honest, period. You do O&H drivebys...you stick to your boundaries.

That's why exposure, bringing reality, helps end affairs and the fog...leaves no room for the wayward mindset to continue.

Clear up your lines...you did not bring her back from the train station...she chose to come home. You did walk in and lie to the rest of the blended family...and all have concern and a part of the whole...so did CJ.

A choice, not a happenstance.

You can gain a tad of comfort from distraction in going back over your life to find where you were to blame for the outcome...it's a distraction, not a cure...gives your brain time to absorb what you chose to believe was impossible (she was safe because she'd been betrayed before, knew MB)...

You can do that until you fully grasp you have an issue with control...seek it, to protect yourself and your loved ones, try to exert it in ways you do not see yourself...and maybe this is the time you'll face and know it within yourself. It's important. Has a position within why you didn't expect her to do this, have this mindset, be capable...

which doesn't respect her as a separate person, as weak and strong as you are. That her affair is about her...her wayward mindset is created and maintained in her...and she lost her way.

God doesn't cease his reaching, providing, being...he's there, as he ever was...for her, for you, your family...rest in that (instead of distracting with blame) and ask him what is this control issue in you, where did it come from, how much self-deception is involved in it...

and share those same thoughts with WW...because a form of admiration is asking advice, giving deep appreciation, celebrating your spouse's wholeness, their very being, and choice to be in your life. And God can speak through anyone, anything...look at Dr. Harley, explaining all his experience of coaching couples through infidelity, and not having experienced it himself. Doesn't make the advice invalid...even Satan can quote scripture...doesn't make the scripture untrue.

Lots of chemical, hormonal changes at this age, I'm discovering...like another poster said, MLC, menopause, impending empty nest...and what the heck is my life right now--this isn't what I envisioned...and those addictive shortcuts to feelings...the literal drug hits from fantasy...and the absurd extremes we can go to in order to distract from our reality...

I'm so very sorry for your pain. You're already in prayers and you are not alone. You have your part in the marriage, not any in the affairs, 'k? Not in the wayward mindset. You can choose to bring reality, fully, through honesty and intimacy...not based on her response...just your commitment...so you can personally recover to the depth you wanted all along. No more repeats. Deep understanding of what you choose to do and not do, and why. So you can make different choices.

Welcome back, Tan.

LA

What do you do with a rabid dog?

Thank you so much LA. So much truth - I really know it all deep down - it's just hard to remain attached to reality when your world flips on you. Thank you for the insight - this has really helped.

Yes...um...well, I'd like to come out of this WITH a wife....lol

Good, I'm glad you took my comments the right way.

AGG

Yes, and it was TOF's comments about how out of character this behavior was that reminded me of my earlier observations of CJ


Well, that's one benefit of having been here for all these years!

AGG

In a strange place now...

Cj has deleted all errant email, chat programs and her fake facebook account. I have access to her computer and we've talked about withdrawal symptoms from the affair, etc. Of course, she is completely aware of all this and pretty much can delineate all the necessary steps and what we should be doing...which makes this really wierd.

Here's the hitch for me - last time I was in this situation, it never got this far.

What do I do now?

Start praying.... Make a LIST of what you WANT and don't let her have an out or excuse.

Ask her to start a thread here about what she's done. I'm interested in finding out how someone so familiar with MB principles could find themselves in that type of situation. Is the lure of an A actually so high?

I agree with Man in Motion, it would be helpful to her and others, since she has offered her advice on here, to get and give advice with a new thread of hers.

and for you T, I can't imagine, I feel horrible for you.
figuring out what you want out of this is a tough part, at least it was tough for me. To make a list was almost impossible, I sat so long in the back ground, never asking for anything, taking what I could get, and now I was being asked by the MC, what do I want? If you've never been any kind of a taker in a relationship this will be hard for you, think of ALL your relationships, bros, sis, mom, dad, friends, what do you expect any of them to do for you? are you always the giver? this might be hard.

That's me exactly! I am extremely thankful to LovingAlways for pointing out that my avoidance was a major form of control - that was an epiphany for my personal life - and it may help me avoid many pitfalls that come in the future.

You have all been very helpful and kind here - thanks to everyone who posted - even if I did not directly reply to your posts, I read and considered them all.