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You know i don't know why i bother with the two of you.
My marriage is NOT bad. Only in your opinion!!!! This is well stated. Mel's opinion is bad, not the marriage! There's little 2 be done that will convince black&white folks like Mel that there are areas in between that they simply can't understand. Rather than make the attempt, they'll try 2 label it something "bad" or otherwise unpleasant, and then dismiss the person they've labeled as pathetic and hopeless and not worth listening 2. Yes, it is my opinion that a marriage where abuse exists is BAD. It is my opinion that a marriage that never recovers from an affair and the WS stays in contact with her OM for 7 years after D-day is BAD. It is my opinion that a marriage described as "in withdrawal" [from each other] and never enters recovery is bad. Some consider that GOOD, and that is ok with me. That is their standard to endure, not mine. That is not what I would consider a good marriage. And it certainly is not Marriage Builder's standard of a recovered marriage. You can call it whatever you want, 2Long, but that doesn't mean others have to join you. But, you don't need the approval of others. Sadly, this has become very much a part of the "MB methods." At least on these forums, it has. Yes, Marriage Builders does tend to promote good marriages, not bad marriages; that is the point. There are lots of boards that promote bad marriages. I suspect that, if rprynne were 2 coach with SH (I have no experience with JHC, and I don't mean the man upstairs) he would not be advised 2 go 2 plan B. I wasn't, neither when I coached with him in 2002 (6 months out of the gate) or 2 years ago. He said, "if you had, you'd simply be divorced now" and he could see clearly that I didn't "need" that, and that my W was worth working with. You don't know what Steve Harley would say and its preposterous to suggest he doesn't endorse Plan B; that is just a false assertion. But we do know what Dr. Harley would say as evidenced in his articles and newsletters. That is not guessing or hearsay, we have the word from the horse's mouth. So you can "guess" what Steve Harley might or might not do, but we have the actual WORDS from Dr. Harley as outlined in his own articles and newsletters.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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My WW consistently denies she has feelings for OM, but basically doesn't want to be "mean" to him. 5 years out and OM's "feelings" still matter? He SHOULD be the guy that almost ruined her life. He SHOULD be the guy that she almost lost you over and it should break her heart to see, talk or think of him at all. Even though she made her choices too, she SHOULD despise the guy for the choices HE made which necessarily enabled her to head down into that dark cesspool of a "relationship". She should NOT have any desire or inclination to share ANYTHING about her life or his life with him. He was NOT a love lost but a turd one buries and RUNS away from holding one's nose. Will she EVER get to that point or will he forever remain in the living in the backwoods of her mind as a significant person in her [remaining] life? I forget if you told us you ever intend to have children or not but if you do can you imagine yourself having to have your own kid DNA tested just so you can be sure he/she is yours? That MAY be what this is coming to. You're a bright, intelligent, educated, employed guy. I would consider you a friend. You deserve better than this. FIVE YEARS. You got to MB the same time I did. I'm NOT telling you to divorce/separate/Plan B...but you NEED a plan of some sort - a RIGID plan to rebuild your marriage the right way (MB and firm boundaries) or divorce/separation.... YOUR CALL. Mr. Wondering p.s. - Because you've invested five years of your life into making this work you WANT those five years to mean something otherwise they become "wasted" years. Your "resentment" bank is surely building...how "worth it" is she going to have to make it? What about the next five years? This is where the rubber MUST meet the road otherwise your patience becomes your own prison.
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Who is
RChillingworth
??????????????
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Oh, I get it.
The Scarlet Letter
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Last edited by 2long; 11/19/09 02:59 PM.
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Sorry you are feeling down rprynne.  For no other reason then WW's continued contact with OM, I don't think she is trying or on board with recovery. You are going to stay on spin cycle forever if she can't even hold up NC...the rest is all fluff.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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B_r, don't you know this is opposite land? Contact with OP is fine! Dandy! Perfectly normal! They just have to put up with it or they might LOSE their precious (demented) WS! 
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
I will not spend my life this way.
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Okay, I'll call your hypothetical marriage bull feathers! And yes, I don't need any validation of your construct, as it isn't real. Of course you don't. Like I said, you don't need my approval or that of anyone elses. I am just going by what you post here and on other forums about your wife's continued contact with the OM [7 years past D-Day and still no end in sight] and that you and your wife are in a state of withdrawal and you have just accepted that. I hope you aren't trying to sell that deal to rprynne.  So you're suggesting that Dr and Mr Harley might have different opinions? And if they do (they do, at times), that only Dr Harley's articles are valid? Yes, Dr. Harley is the one who establishes Marriage Builders principles and his view on plan B is well known on this forum through his books and articles. What Steve told you applied to your specific situation, not someone elses. [and it is just hearsay] And that was 2 years ago, btw. He routinely recommends Plan B to his clients [I know of 3 or 4 right now] so it is disingenuous to suggest that Steve does not advocate Plan B. Plan B is a Marriage Builders construct, 2Long. You may not like it, because it interferes wtih your mission of maintaining a marriage at all costs, but Plan B is a tried and true Marriage Builders concept. In fact, if you would read the article "When to Call it Quits" you would see that Dr Harley recommends plan B to a woman whose spouse will not engage in the marriage. There is not even an affair. However, why would you even consider going into Plan B in the first place since, according to you, you are perfectly content with the status quo? Why would you even be calling Steve in the first place if that is the case? That being said, Dr Harley's advice is given to a woman who DOES NOT WANT to stay in a loveless marriage where the spouses are withdrawn from each other. You don't seem to mind that, so it wouldn't be applicable. I am not sure that rprynne is willing to endure the status quo like you, 2long, because he appears to be very "disappointed" about the state of his marriage. I hope we can help him change that.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Why was it not necessary? MB is the best way, and besides--with no kids, you have no reason at all to put up with repeated abuse. I said seemed neccessary in reference to going to a MB weekend. My WW and I discussed whether we would do something like the weekend, or continue with our current MC. We continued with the current MC. After we stopped that, things appeared to be going well. It's not like this recent event was going on the whole time (at least to the best of my knowledge). There was a good 7 months in there where the WW was doing well.
Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
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During this 7 months was she in contact?
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
I will not spend my life this way.
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{{{{{{{{{{{[rprynne}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Thanks!
Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
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Sorry for the t/j rprynne, i will leave it alone now, it is your thread. I don't mind t/j's.
Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
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I suspect that, if rprynne were 2 coach with SH (I have no experience with JHC, and I don't mean the man upstairs) he would not be advised 2 go 2 plan B. I wasn't, neither when I coached with him in 2002 (6 months out of the gate) or 2 years ago. He said, "if you had, you'd simply be divorced now" and he could see clearly that I didn't "need" that, and that my W was worth working with. I did coaching with SH. He was basically stumped with my WW. He advised me to not go to plan B. He said plan D was the only option and that I should do that when I felt like it. I once specifically asked him about how frustrated people here (on these boards) get with that advice. He responded that it does not surprise him because the people here are not as familiar with my marital history.
Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
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We are familiar enough to know that you are not supposed to put up with contact with the OP.
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
I will not spend my life this way.
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**edit**
Last edited by MBsurvivor; 11/19/09 04:47 PM. Reason: TOS - personal attack, disrespect - please do not remove mod edits
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I did coaching with SH. He was basically stumped with my WW. He advised me to not go to plan B. He said plan D was the only option and that I should do that when I felt like it. I can see why he would advise to go to Plan D after all you have been though, if anything. Why not try the Marriage Builders weekend, rprynne, and see if Dr Harley can get through the fog? If it is a matter of an addiction preventing her engagement in the marriage, Dr Harley would be able to detect it. Did you know he once managed treatment centers?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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>that I should do that when I felt like it.
And there it is.
When YOU feel like it, Rprynne...
Now the question is, what do you feel like doing?
Maybe it's time for a personal inventory and goal setting for yourself.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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Yes, please. We would like to help you but we need to know what you feel like doing, what you PLAN to do.
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
I will not spend my life this way.
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Last edited by 2long; 11/19/09 02:58 PM.
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ok, rprynne, I found it posted in the main page. The next one is:
The Marriage Builders� Weekend
January 29th & 30th,2010
I suspect it will be in Minneapolis again. The Mall of America is there!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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