PH,

My wife had a 3 year PA with an OM she met in a chat room. Emails I discovered were I love you this and I love you that.

Over 5 years out from our Dday and she DISPISES THE SNAKE. She hates him with a passion and blames him for luring her into the A. Only wants to forget the bassat.

""I am actually enjoying romancing her again because its building up those love bank units for both her and myself.""

She will be soon be feeling the same towards the OM.

Stay strong and positive my friend. I am sure she is still going through WITHDRAWAL, so it will only get better with your attitude.

kirk

What are the thoughts/experiences of this group on letting my wife read SAA at this point? Would that be the equivalent of letting the other team see my playbook or would it be something we could work on together? Specifically the last half of the book that concerns withdrawal from the OM & marital recovery. Since it has only been just over two weeks, is it too early?

Should I just start with printing out the Emotional Needs Questionairre for both of us to fill out?

PH,

I think her reading the book would be good. Now, I wouldn't tell her about these forums, as that would be giving up your play book. If she finds them on her own, then we will help you deal with that then. I would "educate" her on her NEED to read the book though. Leave it somewhere around the house. If she picks it up, great. If not, don't worry about it. If she asks you about it then just be honest...." I picked this up and read it because I love you and I knew our marriage was in trouble. I needed to find out what was going on....."....then if she if she is open to it tell her what you learned about yourself... Keep the focus on you, not on what she needs to do.

IMO, things are progressing well. You are very early in this process. Keep up the good work

not2fun

PH,

""on letting my wife read SAA at this point""

My only thought is that "LETTING" your wife read the book does kinda go against the "not talking relationship talk" mantra for right now.

Plan A your A off and be the best darn husband you can be right now. Until the withdrawal is done.

Please realize she really is going through withdrawal. Like a crack head withdrawing from the pipe and an alchy withdrawing from the bottle.

Maybe another month.

Of course if you are reading it and leave it laying around for her to pick up....well that's a different kettle.

kirk

I fully admit I don't know the reasons behind the secrecy of the "playbook" or recovery strategies-- specifically in regards to the MB philosophy, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt in regards to that.

And I keep seeing the no relationship talk warning-- so I probably shouldn't even be speaking now... LOL

BUT-- if you have some need to keep your 'playbook' secret, yet you do want to leave something out and about for her to find... could you look into another book that perhaps has the same underlying philosophy behind it, but that isn't a play by play of your attack? For instance, from what I gather, a lot of MB philosophies are shared...maybe just changed with flowered up language.

A good book addressing situations exactly like yours is one from Shirley Glass: Not "Just Friends". Gaining the enlightenment from that book helped my FWS understand the "bones" of an affair...what it was and what it wasn't-- and what *those feelings* meant and what they didn't. Further, it explains why affairs happen even within happy marriages... in marriages where "love banks" are overflowing even, according to the MB's prevention tactics.

I'm still reading and trying to see the enlightenment within MB tactics-- I just can't seem to get past the typical prevention myths that come out in many of the articles and advice. I may have not just gotten to the right stuff, yet, so don't hang me yet.

I just know there wasn't any delayed wallowing in fog, let alone extended withdrawal type behavior, with my FWS after there was real understanding of the hows and whys of affairs were understood and "prevention" and "monogamy myths" were dispelled. A 'secret tactic' or playbook wouldn't have gone over well for him, but that may be a case of 'to each his own.'

A second book we really liked was The Monogamy Myth by Peggy Vaughan. But it was the first book by Glass that really helped my FWS see how, despite a very good marriage, he found himself in an affair. Affairs don't just happen in 'bad' marriages, or marriages where "love units" are bankrupt--

Anyway- take with a grain of salt... because this violates that no relationship talk that I keep seeing mentioned. That tactic just wouldn't have worked in our situation-- but it must in others or so many wouldn't be warning about it!

Be strong, PatientHusband.

Nicki
Decembrr@wildblue.net

Nicki,

THE NO RELATIONSHIP TALK advice is for the BS that is Plan Aing and trying to be the best spouse, friend, companion, etc., that person can be.

A BS constantly talking about the "relationship" and do you love me? what can I do so that your will love me? Why don't you love me.....ALL THE TIME comes across as very needy, wimpy, clingy, and UNATTRACTIVE to the WS who is still in withdrawal from his/her fantasy.

So the folks here in the halls of MB advise staying away from the relationship talk. Be happy, endearing, charming, attractive and positive in your interaction with the WS specially during the withdrawal period.

When the withdrawal is over THEN working on improving the M and communication and boundarys and the rest of the relationship can begin.

imho

kirk

Hi Guys,
Been away for a while, needed to come back for a refresher course in Plan A'ing.

For an update - Things are still okay, we are nearly 4 months since last contact w/ OM. She is still low a lot of the time, wants us to move to a new place (even though financially not possible right now). She has engaged herself in helping a girlfriend of hers work on her new relationship, meaning she's out of the house for a good part of the weekend when I am home. This includes at times staying over the night at the friends. Don't get the wrong idea, OM is not in picture, I have checked on that, but she seems to be engrossing herself in someone elses problems instead of working on ours.

Relationship wise, we seem to have plateaued (sp?). We are initimate often, but it is I who initiates it. In fact, in the affection department, I initiate it all. It has started to bother me about how much doesn't come back my way. I have suggested going to a weekend marriage conference but she is not willing at this point.

What do I need to be doing now, 4 months into this? I am driving myself crazy wondering about it all. When will the lovebank deposits start to work? Its hard being the loving husband but not feeling the love back, in fact its extremely hurtful.

Just need some reassurance I guess.

Thanks,
PH

PH,

Good to see you back. Sorry things are not moving along better. My suggestion speak with the Harley's abou this. My thought is to set a date in the future to reevaluate the situation and see if there is any progress in the marriage. Look for the "baby steps". If there is none, then I think you should consider another alternative and I think the Harley's can offer you some good ideas on this.

Recovery of the marriage can take a long time. The fog and withdrawal can take a long time especially for a long term affair. However, eventually YOUR love bank will run dry and when that happens, if she is not carrying her weight in the marrage the marriage will probably be over.

Please call the Harleys and see what they recommend.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL,
Things are much better now than 4 months ago, and I do think she is beginning to come out of withdrawal to some degree. I may get impatient at times but the hugs are getting tighter and she is starting to seem happier to hear from me when I call from work or when I get home. I do still have trust issues, and I can't shake that.

Has anyone had any experience with the Weekend to Remember Conferences? One is coming to our town in May and I was hoping to get her to go.

PH,

Our church has 10 couples going to the W2R in Oakbrook Illinois this time around. Last fall we had 14 couples that went to the one in the NW suburbs. All reported that it was a great eyeopener, especially the husbands.

Mark

I need some help guys. Its been nearly 5 months since NC. My wife tells me she is extremely unhappy with where we live, to the point that she does not want to really work on our relationship until we can move to a better place physically. (We live in a rural area, she grew up in the city). We have had financial issues for years to the point that we really can't move right now. I have recently gotten a very nice promotion at my job that in the long run, should allow us to restore our credit and hopefully be able to move in a year or so, but right now, there's no way. She would really like to move back closer to her aging parents and siblings, which by the way is in the same state (and nearby to) the OM.

I am still trying to be the loving, supportive husband, but she appears so miserable and blames it all on where we live. She has never been a "housekeeper" but for the last 9 months or so, she has done absolutely nothing to contribute to cleaning the house, cook or even do the laundry. The time she used to spend talking to the OM, she now spends surfing Facebook or talking to a girlfriend. She is home with my kids all day, its a small house, so I can understand some of her frustration, but I would hope she could find a way to cope. I am currently doing what I can, basically keeping the dishes washed adn the clothes cleaned but I can't keep up with the kids rooms and toys and the rest of the housework. I am hoping this is just due to her depression.

I have checked, she is not talking the OM on FB or any other way that I have found so I don't think that is an issue right now, but her showing me affection, at times, feels forced on her end. I guess I just thought things would start feeling more "normal" by now. Am I just not giving it enough time? I know she is still coming out of the fog and I don't want to be impatient.

I would love to call the Harleys about this, but I can't afford it yet. I need a strategy. This lady is my everything, I have a chance to keep her and I don't want to blow it.

Somethings up now. We have taken a serious step backwards. I found where she has been looking at the Facebook page of the OM's daughter. This is one of the names I made her block on FB but there is a variation in spelling so she was able to sneak this one by. I asked her about it, she said she was just curious but has had absolutely no contact with her or OM. We then got into another heated discussion about how she has not yet committed to our marriage or working on it. She still refuses any marriage conferences, doesn't wear my rings, etc. She said moving first is her priority and maybe everything else will fall into place after that. She has finally said just moving to the city will be okay for now, not necessarily moving to another state.

I am working on that now. If if means having to declare bankruptcy to unload this debt and free up enough $$$ to afford a lease that is what I will do in the short term.

But is it possible for her to put all these feelings on hold or do you think there is still contact? I am reluctant to put another keylogger on as she found the other one. She is computer savvy. Cell records are clean. If she is contacting him, its through FB or email only. Her family is suspect also. They are still 100% on my side but feel her complaining about the $$$ and where we live is a smoke screen to give her a more justified reason for ditching me.

I don't know what to think anymore. We haven't been intimate in a few weeks now. Is it possible the fog hasn't truly cleared after 6 months with no contact? Even if she has managed to put her mind on other things and avoid the thought of it?

If you have been meeting all her EN's and not LBing and she is still not warming up to you something is wrong. Maybe she really is depressed which would mean she needs counseling and possibly medication, is it possible. Maybe she is withdrawal, have you read the basic concepts where it talks about the four states of mind in a M and how to coax a spouse out of withdrawal? That might be a good next step if you have not. You do say that she is computer savvy though so I think it is very possible that she is still in contact with OM in ways that you have not discovered yet.

I wish I had the wisdom that the vets have to be able to help you, I just wanted to let you know that you had been heard and that your concern seems justified to me. Something doesnt seem quite right, and looking at OM's daughters FB is definately not right. Hopefull someone more knowledgeable than me will come along and help you out. I am sorry you are going through this.

Just a guess, but it doesn't sound like your wife is over the OM yet. I doubt that NC has really been in effect for 6 months.

Looking at pics of children is a sure sign that she is trying to get her fix - maybe she isn't talking to him directly or maybe she is, but checking him out online whether it be Facebook, email or even looking at his kids's stuff is breaking the No Contact agreement. This will keep her from being able to get through withdrawal and into reconciliation.

It sounds to me that she is still foggy.

At some point, these WW have to really decide to commit to their marriage. I know the frustrations of always having to snoop. Everytime you find something and confront them, then they find another way to keep in contact (phones at work, emails at work, friends cell phones, etc).

Your wife will have to give him up completely in order to move closer to you. That means stop checking up on him on FB, internet, his kids, the newspaper, asking his friends...everything.

Did I go too far? She was upset with me today when she discovered I had deleted pictures from the cell phone of the OM's kids. I couldn't believe she was mad at me about that. That escalated when she informed me that she was considering taking the kids and trying a separation for the summer. I exploded back about her running out instead of helping me work the situation out so we could ALL be happy. Currently we are not speaking and in separate rooms. I don't know where we go from here. Any quick suggestions on how to turn this around?

PH, I can surely understand why you did that. It is a LB though. You also said you 'exploded' back which sounds like an angry outburst. I'm assuming you are trying to Plan A???

Shake it off and move on. Don't engage if you are angry, even if you are justified in your anger (which I think you were). You cannot force a wayward to do anything. You can't educate them to change either. All you can do is try to meet her needs as best you can, don't LB, and be consistent.

Thanks Limbo, I just hope this wasn't her last straw. Things have been very tense for a week now and my frustration finally hit a breaking point after that revelation.

I'd give anything to take it all back now. Hard to restrain in the heat of it though.

Hopefully tomorrow will offer a better day.

I understand that you feel the OM is out of the picture, but is this verifiable? I'm no expert on withdrawal, as my WS is still actively involved w/OM. 9 months seems pretty long from what I've read.

Was there a NC letter composed by both of you and sent? Something seems to be missing here. Are you guys spending lots of time together in a positive way? I understand you may not be able to afford calling the coaching center, but has she read any books or material from the website?

It just sounds like she hasn't let go of the OM completely. I hope Mark or somebody else with more experience can help figure it out.