When we got into real recovery after our FR, I remember telling myself "It's going to be hard,but I am going to be a W that he WANTS to be married to...I am going to be the BEST D*MN wife he could ever have imagined...because if we don't make it, it's going to be MY decision, not his!".

And it's true that feelings follow actions...I didn't FEEL that way at the time and had to force myself, but it's paid off. He's Plan A'ing ME now and my feelings about him and our M are getting better and better.

Inform WH that you will commit 100% to a marriage when you have a HUSBAND that you can commit to.

You are waiting to see if he is really your HUSBAND or just somebody who is still trying to weasel both a a wife and girlfriends.

If/when your HUSBAND comes back, you will commit to him and him only.

And you have no doubt your HUSBAND would be more than happy to prove to you that that's who he is.

If he throws a tantrum over this, then you just got your answer. DO NOT back down over this!
Mulan

MarriedForever,

Thanks. This sounds like MB advice to me. One of the things on my list is to follow MB principles. A problem, fairly well documented on my thread before the crash, was that I kept bringing up the A. I did this because of the trickle truth from H. It was a terrible recurring cycle. H said he felt he was always on pins and needles waiting for me to bring up the A. And I was always waiting for the reveal of the next lie, which seemed to come every few weeks.

What is different now? I am not afraid anymore. I can live with or without H. I will wait and see what he does with those things I am requiring him to do. If he does not do them, I will D - without hesitation. In the meantime, I will follow MB principles: avoid LBs and meet his ENs, even if I don't really feel like it.


AM

This is your power. Now you can see things with a clear eye, unafraid.

Sorry AM but I don't believe you. I think you are still operating from a standpoint of fear. You have been here for a very long time and for you to put up with what WH has just dished out is a major disappointment. Sorry to be harsh but I cannot believe you are subjecting yourself to being second best. I'm not going to candy coat it... I think that is exactly what you are doing. You can hide behind MB principles (the ones that suit you) all you want but for you to allow him to guilt you into feeling like you haven't done enough is completely perposterous!!!

Sorry to be so harsh because I know your pain all to well but you need to seriously realize that you are amazing and deserve so much more out of life!!

Mindshare

Mindshare,

Thanks for posting. You are right. I have been here a very long time. And there has been disappointment after disappointment. You are among the majority that think I should have gone directly to D. Friends and family, to include our children, all think I should have gone right to D.

And you are right, I do deserve so much more out of life. I am a treasure and deserve to be treated that way. I just am not ready to give up and D. H and I have many, many good years behind us. And if it were not for H's experiences in Iraq, I am quite sure I would have been out of M long ago. I keep coming back to the question, If he had returned without an arm or leg, would I be treating all this the same way? I don't think so. PTSD is such an insidious, invisible thing. I still don't know as much as I should about it.

I don't know if H will be up to an MB type of R and be fully on board now. If he isn't, I will leave to protect myself and family. The difference now is that I don't FEEL afraid; I don't feel desperate; and I have let go of the pain. THAT is amazing to me.

AM

I believe every word of the above declaration, and I am so happy that you now have a personal peace. I have followed your story since last February, and neither your words nor the tone of your postings lately have the desperation that so many of us have as we try to come to grips with what has been thrust upon us. I sense your peace.

Golden

Remember this ... You (due to your circumstances) should NEVER plan A ever again.

NEVER

If you find yourself thinking about plan A ... recognize those thoughts as your own foggy mind. You have ALREADY been the lighthouse. You have ALREADY shown yourself to have awesome potential as an attractive and loyal wife. You have ALREADY proven your willingness to forgive and recover.

Your WH has seen how much he will be missing out on if he keeps making the wayward choices.

It is no longer up to you to "prove yourself".
It's up to WH to prove HIS worthiness.


Plan A is forever off the table.

AM,

Pep is right on as usual! Do NOT Plan A! He needs to do the heavy lifting. You deserve it.

Thanks for taking my previous post constructively. I kept thinking about going back and removing it because I didn't want to hurt you but for some reason I just couldn't do it. I thought you needed to see it.

You are a great part of the MB family and I always enjoy your posts to others. You are clearly a very intelligent and caring person. Don't lost sight of yourself and what you deserve out of life. You have given WH an amazing gift of recovery and forgiveness and he has squandered it.

I'm still not sure I'm convinced about the fear not being a factor but I'll have to take your word for it.

Mindshare

FEAR in this sense can be different than the ORIGINAL Fear a BS feels ~ THAT fear for am may sincerely be gone.

What normally takes it's place is a different sort of fear, not as deep as the Original Fear ~ it's a fear of giving up the dream of being married forever...giving up the dream of growing old with our spouse. It's still fear but different from the original driving fear. armymama may be over the Original Fear and now onto the Second Fear, which does not feel as suffocating.

This is a good place to be, IMHO. It allows the BS to move fromm the desperation of Plan A'ing too long and into a more sensible acting out of the MB principles.

All,

Thanks for checking in with me. H came back home from MIL Sat evening as scheduled. We went to chuch, had brunch out and a nice afternoon date at a sporting event yesterday. We did not discuss his trip at all until this morning. I had had a nightmare last night about H emailing OW. It was like a movie with 2 endings - one in which he asked OW to be with him in her city and the other was that he told her he would off me for the insurance and marry her on a beach in Bangkok (have never been there - don't even know if Bankok has beaches). I really hate these dreams.

In any case, this AM I asked H some questions about his state of mind when he left for his trip, why he decided to return home, his mother's response to his actions. H kept returning to the cause of his depression as my being unable to get over the A. I kept coming back to an inability to get over the A because of his trickle truth. H said I had asked the same questions over and over and I responded with that he kept giving me new information every 4-6 weeks, to include last week. H seemed to believe he had told me everything truthfully last fall, and was really thoughtful when I told him that there was a great deal that only came out with the polygraph and even something else week before last. I think he does not remember half this stuff. He did not even recall conversations we had less than 2 weeks ago. The polygraph last summer backed up some specifics of his memory loss. This has always been sticky for me - what did he lie about and what did he not remember.

I will see if he follows through with things. He has his PTSD group tommorrow and Doc appt Wed to talk about anti-depressants. So that's a start. My list is long though and he is only just starting.

MarriedForever, I think I already mourned the vision I had had of our marriage. I do have a vision for recovery and a different marriage - one with this period of time as a scar and not a bleeding wound. If it does not occur, I am ok with that. I think I will find some hot ski bum 2/3 my age (just joking).

GY, I have been thinking about you. You are wise and full of wonderful counsel. I will continue thinking about you as you work through your potential 1 year dates. I think if you plan for them, they are not near as bad as the worry of them.

AM

If your H is truly depressed, ADs can help tremendously and the ease of your recovery may improve.

Has your H looked into EMDR for his PTSD? It helped me with mine.

I
AM,
I cannot give you advice because your situation has recently veered way off the path I'm traveling. Maybe something I say about how I handle things will spark an idea with you. I'm sure you remember that in August Dr. Harley advised me to stop bringing the affair up. That has been the hardest thing for me to do, especially when triggers cause me to go ballistic on the inside. I fight the inclination to start the interrogation quite often. You know that I have the big picture as well as many, many details. Do I have them all? Probably not. Did he conveniently "forget" some things when I questioned him until mid-August? I'll never know. I'll forever wonder about some of the things. In fact, I'm sure that my not knowing will keep my wound a little sensitive forever; but I've come to the conclusion that what I do know is so much more than what I do not know. If I didn't execute Plan D over what I do know, then I may just have to accept that there are some forever questions that I'll have to learn how to deal with.

My FWH's activities now are a total open book. He treats me like a queen--as he should have always done. He looks at me sometimes and tears up because of the guilt he bears. I wanted to stay married and I wanted to help him become the man he used to be. Any reference I make to the affair and any sadness or reflectiveness he notes in my demeanor seems to drive a stake through his heart. Do I need more details or more answers? I feel like I do sometimes, but most of the time I look at the big picture and stifle the questions. I want my marriage and I want the life I experience nine days out of ten. Even recently, when I had a question about honesty and openness in the at-home study and the affair, Dr. Harley warned me to be very careful of rehashing because it sets both of us back to the beginning. I so wanted Dr. Harley to back me in my quest to know it all, but he stands firm.

Your husband's PTSD and his depression have made him do and say terrible things within the last three weeks. I know you have come to a peace about your future, but it is also evident that you want the marriage and the husband of long ago. I pray that these efforts you are making will give you continued peace.

Hugs!!!

GY

Thanks, GY. You are very wise. I wish I had done what you are doing. You (and Dr. Harley, of course) are so right. Every time, I brought something about the A up (which I ended up doing compusively because I felt he was still lying), it set us both back. And the past three weeks set us far, far back. I know there are posters here on MB that have far larger holes in their story than I do. I certainly have the big picture of the A and understand (I think) what happened the past few weeks. I guess I am not sure how coouples revover the M without full H&O. At the same time, I certainly do not ever want to be the source of H's pain. He has to find a way to get to forgiveness for himself. I think that will be the toughest thing.

Today is better again. H went to his PTSD group and scheduled both an MC appt for the two of us as well as an appt with the VA mental health provider who can prescribe anti-depressants. We shall see where it goes from here. Once again, H sounds like an entirely different person from how he sounded when he was gone. I think something helpful I can do is track his bouts of depression on a calendar and look for any patterns there might be.

AM

I hope your day is good.

GY

This is an excellent idea.

Yesterday was a down one. Tues. H and I met with DS15's teachers after grades came out. DS15's grades are tanking. Yesterday, he did a homework assignment (after I nagged him) and left it on the kitchen counter when he went to school. That set the tone for the day. H and I were keeping our verbal distance (back to talking mostly about the weather). We ran a few errands and had lunch. Mostly, I was down without a specific reason.

We watched some tv, which of course, had a thread of infidelity in it. I am not really affected by that stuff anymore. Didn't really even notice at the time. But H did, because at bedtime, he mentioned what a blank he had been. That, of course, started the conversation in a place I did not want to go. In any case, I mentioned that he used to do such loving things in our marriage. He said he did not know when he stopped. I said it was when the A started and when the A ended, he did not return to doing those kind things. I suggested that maybe he did not want to betray the OW by doing nice things for me. He said he did not think that to be true. Who knows?

I have not brought up doing any MB subcourses. So far, H has made medical and counseling appointment for himself and us. I think I will ask him to check the list of stuff I needed him to do before he returned home. I have a feeling he does not remember half of what is on it.

AM

AM,
I'm glad to hear something from you. I've been concerned for you and anxious to hear.

Hopefully, your H will realize now that he has to start doing nice things for you and not just occasionally. I think reminding him of the list you sent him before his return would be the wise thing to do.

God bless!

GY

AM,

I've been following your situation and have been thinking about you quite a bit. As I've said (I think . . . I've tried to post to you several times recently, but I haven't been able to finish them before the kids come home and need the computer), your H's TBI, depression and PTSD may mean that the typical Plan A, Plan B and Plan D won't work for you.

First, your H's depression. Having lived for 16+ years with someone who struggles with depression, I am acutely aware of the devastating effects of depression on a M. To put it in MB concepts, when my H is depressed, he is unable to meet my EN's (particularly conversation, affection, domestic support, family support), so he cannot make deposits into my LB. At the same time, his depression makes him much more likely to LB, which results in lots of withdrawals from the LB. This can go on for months at a time.

I used to respond to this situation by withdrawing. Now, having learned all about depression and how it can be treated, when I see H slipping into his depression, I take action. I make sure he takes his meds and I make sure he sees his doctors. It makes me feel more like his mother than his wife at times, and it is exhausting, but there is no other way for us.

Your recent posts indicate that you're on this path. I just want to urge you to learn everything you can about depression. Observe your H carefully, make sure he takes his meds and take action when his mood starts to slip. You can't count on him to take the lead in this area.

Second, your H's continuing memory issues. Again, I completely understand what this does to your ability to trust your H. While I haven't dealt with this in the context of my M and my H's A, I have dealt with it for years now with my father.

My father's TBI was the result of a massive brain bleed, the subsequent surgery and a later concussion suffered in a pedestrian vs. automobile hit-and-run. He was lucky to survive and it's amazing that he's as able to function as well as he does. Nevertheless, he has serious memory issues that will never go away. In my father's case, his short-term working memory is good. For instance, he can remember the dates and times of appointments much better than I can. When he shows up to see his wacky VA neurologist, she starts the exam by asking him how his memory is (to which he always responds, "great" -- duh, if your memory is bad, you're not going to remember that your memory is bad) and giving him the usual neuro exam which only deals with short-term memory. It's not until I chime in with examples of his memory impairment that she begins to see the whole picture.

With anything complex or more remote in time (a month or more), his memory loss is so bad it's debilitating. He can't remember his own medical history even though he's constantly having procedures and we're constantly in the doctor's office. He can't accurately recount recent events. He can't understand the ins and outs of the VA disability pension he's getting even though he's a lawyer and worked in human resources for most of his life. He can't make the connection between his frighteningly high blood pressure and taking his meds.

My father does not have Alzheimers and he's remained very stable over time. I would say he's even shown some improvement with good care and lots of stimulation. Nevertheless, his memory issues remain and we've learned to work around them.

In your case, have you noticed memory impairment in areas other than those involving his A? If so, it's possible that his story keeps changing not because he is or has tried to deceive you since the polygraph, but due to his TBI-related memory issues. From my limited knowledge of polygraphs, it takes a conscious intent to deceive to trigger the machine to record an untruthful response. If your H was answering questions to the best of his ability at the time, he would appear on the test results to be truthful.

At some point, you may just have to accept that you'll never be able to get a full and accurate account of the A from your H. I do agree with GY when she talked about not bringing up the A anymore. I did that myself and it has helped me. In fact, the only time we talk about the A now is when my H brings it up. Because I have done my best to avoid AO's and DJ's with respect to the A, my H is not afraid to bring it up.

Third, your H's erratic, stupid behavior in contacting the OW. We've already discussed the possibility that he was looking for something to lift him out of his depression. It's also possible that his TBI has caused some kind of disconnect in his brain that makes it harder to let reason and common sense control his behavior.

Again I have my father as an example. His balance hasn't been right since the initial brain bleed. He walks like Frankenstein and is always in danger of falling over. Without adequate support, he looks like he's falling-down drunk. Despite this obvious physical impairment, my father has on many occasions tried to walk more than a mile from the place where he lives, down a very busy road with no sidewalks, to the store to buy cigars. He has been found collapsed in the store's parking lot, he's been found wandering in the middle of the busy road, he's been found down in a ditch unable to get out. Strangers have brought him home, the police have brought him home, and the people who run the facility have been called and have gone to get him. One time he started out on this journey and fell down within the first few minutes. Instead of turning around and going home, he kept going. He fell over and over again for more than three hours without turning back.

Again, I bring this up to explore the possibility that your H's recent attempts to contact OW may be the result of a deficit in the reasoning/impulse control portion of his brain rather than a true desire to go wayward again.

The only thing that stopped my father from making these life-threatening trips to the store was to take away his spending money.

I don't remember how you learned that your H contacted OW (I'm afraid to go back and look for fear that I'll lose this post again), but is there some way you can take away his ability to contact her?

AM, I'm praying for strength and wisdom for you. You're dealing with a very complex and difficult situation.

Bea

Hi AM,
Just checking in. You and family are in my prayers.

My D16 tanked big time last year with her grades. She is doing much better this year. It takes time.

Take away the video games and cell phone. Always amazing how they come around and do their homework.

Just take one day at a time and breathe...