The reason i do not come out and say it directly to him is the exact reason that SS2 mentioned.

I feel if i come out and say it directly to him, that he will not quit "chatting" with the women in his office, he will just quit telling me about it and i would rather know about what he is chatting about than to be lied to about it.

He does not see anything wrong with his "chatting" so it will not do me any good to just tell him to quit, i have to make him totally change his mind about the fact that it is not a good thing to be "chatty" with members fo the opposite sex.

In order to do that i drop hints to him as to what "i" think about talking to members of the opposite sex and hope that he will get the hint.

This may not be the best way to approach things but like i said i would rather do that than to have him lie to me about "chatting" with them.

I'm glad to see you back. I hope that I wasn't too harsh to you the other day. I am no expert at all with this stuff. I hope that you can work something out that satisfies you.

I had auditors here all week so i did not have time to post and no i do not think you were too harsh on me.

I just do things differently than most people and i think, that and i am not very good at writing out my thoughts clearly so that i can be understood how i mean for it to come out.

You I know mean what.

Remind me. Did you follow the program, do the questionnaires, change your interactions with him to better meet his needs, etc.? Did it have any effect?

My H did not feel the need to fill out the questionaires, i am a perfect wife and he has no complaints (then why did he have an affair huh?).

And i really did not change much of anything, i think the ENIL finally moving out made it so i felt that i could meet his ENs again. And then the A was about a month later (even though i am sure there was a EA part prior to that).

During the A he asked me why i didn't start doing that sooner (in other words before he started seeing the OW) and i told him because he did not make the ENIL leave like i had asked for three years.

You could be correct on this, i do want a happy marriage with my FWH and i am resigned to the fact that that will never happen because he sees things differently than i do and i guess we neither one even knew that until the A happened. It was not something we ever discussed.

I have since found out that he does not feel the need for EPs and that he and i have different views on what a marriage should look like. So i am trying to either get him to change to my point of view or try to better understand his so that maybe i can "live with it".

However i can't get him to talk about anything, i have to do it in such a way that he does not even realize i am talking about our relationship or else he just gets defensive and shuts down and then i get defensive and shut down and it is a vicious cycle.

Like this for instance !!!

I think you meant to say "i know what you mean" .

Ok. Maybe you should sort that out first. I think you either need to get to a mindset where you want a happy marriage with

your FWH, and believe it is possible, or rule it out completely and decide from there.


I doubt this is really his view. He's more likely posturing to protect what he wants. Meaning even the most dense of people get why you would have a problem with him chatting with other woman. But he wants to continue doing that, but can't just say "I know it's wrong, but I like it." So he does the crisis management, take it or leave it two step. Step 1, "it's no big deal." Step 2, "well, it's just the way I am."


As I said above, I think your issue stems from indecision. I think you can sort that out, not by him adapting to you or you adapting to him, but rather by forcing him to reveal himself. You can't change a person, but you can make them show you who they are. Stop talking, start testing and observing.

I'm not sure, but I think you might be afraid to do that. I say that because confronting him about the chatting is a great way to do that. I'm not so sure you are really worried about him going underground, I think you are worried about what it will tell you about him if he does. Worried about what you will have to do with that information. I could be wrong.

SC - All I'm getting at is that all these decisions would be easy if we knew, I mean really knew, that our BS was either a selfish cold hearted cruel person with good acting skills or a lost, confused, dysfunctional person trying to overcome their faults. It would be easy then.

I think you are right in that he knows it is wrong but does not want to stop it.

And i think that deep down i know the answer to whether or not he is a selfish cold hearted cruel person with good acting skills or a lost, confused, dysfunctional person trying to overcome their faults and the sad part is that i think he is the first choice. I say this because he has done so many things through out our marriage that were selfish and cold hearted and cruel and did not really bat an eyelid about it. I just always chose to look the other way i guess.

And i think that is why i struggle so much with my decision because i do not like the fact that i have spent 25 years of my life with this man who is this way and i am nothing like him. I am mad at myself for not seeing it sooner or not doing anything about it before it got this far.

Did you ever read The Dance of Anger? Not exactly the same subject but similar in that I think you have trouble exerting and enforcing boundaries. Why should your H ever do ANYTHING you want? There are never any consequences! You mumble here and there about how unhappy you are, but it's pretty easy for him to tune you out and keep doing what he wants. What if he started finding things uncomfortable? He will only change when HE wants to, when the choices he makes don't give him the same level of satisfaction.

Why did you leave your H earlier in your marriage?

Okay i get what you are saying in that i must have saw it then because he was being selfish and coldhearted then as well and i decided to come back anyway because i still loved him then and i still love him now. Funny how that love thing works isn't it?

I guess now i have kept my eyes wide open instead of closing them like i did all those years ago.

So if i decide i truly want to stay. What do all of you think i need to do in order to be able to live my life a little less worried all the time?

Obviously i can not change him, what can i change in myself that will help my marriage?

And BTW rprynne the more i thought about it, i truly belive my H is a little bit of both of the personalities combined together.

He is selfish and a little bit cold hearted and lost, confused, and dysfunctional.

He can be quite loving and caring and goofy and silly and beautiful and many good things and thatis why i love him and is the part i want to able to see again instead of all the bad in him.

It is not that he does not still do all of these beautiful things it is that right now "i" only focus on the negative side of him and that is what i want to quit doing so that i can maybe have a better marriage.

So is mine some of the time.

It sounds like it is still there to see.


You are farther along in recovery than I am so I am not in a position to give you any advice. I am trying to focus on what is good and positive in my marriage presently. I am trying to let go of what is painful from the past that cannot be undone. I don't know if I will be able to do it or not. All I can do is keep at it and pray that I heal in time. Meanwhile, I am trying to be the best person and wife that I can be. My wish is that if I meet my husband's needs well enough, he will not look outside the marriage for satisfaction. I know that there is no guarantee of this. His happiness is ultimately his responsibility - not mine. If he refuses to see the good marriage that he has and refuses to appreciate the many blessings that we offer each other that is out of my control. If he looks outside the marriage again, I hope that the work that I am doing on myself will leave me strong enough to stand up for myself and remove myself from him. I have stayed because I love my husband and believe that there were things that we could do to make the marriage stronger. I am focused on achieving improvement and seeing all the good that is being done now. When things get tough, I turn to my happy memories of our life together and remember what I have. I have a good life now.

What I hear, is I closed my eyes so I didn't have to deal with his behavior since I could then ignore it, but this caused me alot of pain and now I am opening my eyes to his behavior, but I still love him and now what should I do?

So instead of saying what should I do to help my marriage even if he won't put in place EP's ask yourself why you choose to stay with someone who cares so little for you that they won't protect you. That is how much they REALLY care for you. That is how important YOU are to this person and you have years....years of data. And you still want to stay.

I am going to leave on June 1 unless you treat me better.

Can you change your date?

Ok.

You are saying.......treat me poorly.......treat me poorly....treat me poorly......treat me just like you have for the last 25 years......

Until you believe you are important and valuable you will be treated as unimportant.

SC!

Where are you? I have missed you!

Come find ol' Ivetz when you can

Hoping for an update



Ivetz

Hi ya SC, how are things? I've been "away" a little, I still lurk here and there, things are still very tough for me, not sure if its ME or HIM, but wanted to know how you are?

SC I hope we hear from you soon

thinking of you,