Hi everyone. I wrote a long post last night about the results of yesterday's couples counseling session with W, but got disconnected from from the Internet before I could submit it and lost it. (Lost a few other things too, like my sanity and my W.) I'll try and recreate it.<P>At our counseling session my W announced that she wants to leave the marriage. We spent the session talking about this. Our putz of a counselor did his damndest to get me to agree that this is right the thing to do, validating W's viewpoint as usual. I can tell you, I never felt so freaking manipulated by anyone in my life! But I did not and do not agree that splitting is the thing to do.<P>However, if my W wants to leave, I realize there really is probably not much I can do to stop her, so I'm not going to try this time. In the past, when she's made noises about leaving, I've always turned myself into an emotional pretzel persuading her to stay. No more. For one thing, this really doesn't come as much of a surprise the way things have been going in the last few weeks. So I was kind of prepared for this. It also didn't hurt me nearly as much as I expected, because I've been through this before.<P>This relationship has really made me grow up and become more realistic about people. If I had it to do over again, I still would. I can deal with it. (This reminds me of that scene in "Full Metal Jacket" - the best war movie ever made - where Cowboy has been hit by a (female) VC sniper's bullet and he's lying there in the rubble of Hue, coughing blood and saying, "I can hack it! I can hack it!" and then dies.)<P>OK, OK, maybe its a little melodramatic to compare how I feel with that scene. W really put the bullet through my heart a long time ago when she started seeing OM. This just confirms it. Unlike Cowboy, I'll live (I think).<P>And after she'd put her bullet into me and we got home, W went out again later, I'm sure at least to phone OM and tell him what she'd done. He gets her now. That's my payback.<P>Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

Wex, I'm so sorry about this turn of events. I know your heart is breaking. All you can do is hold on for a while until you feel stronger. I'm praying for you.

HI Wex, I am so sorry to read this.<BR>Have you and your wife ever thought about going to Retrouvaille? New counselor? Maybe she would do this for you? <BR>Not sure that the cowboy scene is melodramatic-I remember feeling pretty close to that.<BR>(((hugs))) cl

Wex buddy - <P>It seems that there are a lot of us male betrayeds who have "had enough". I responded to Chris's thread yesterday (I'm tired) just about this very thing.<P>I, too, am mentally, emotionally and physically exhausted from trying to hold onto a marriage that is no more. My W has already filed...it wasn't until a few weeks ago that I said "[censored] it" and decided to throw in the towel myself. I think my love for my W has been eroded to the point that it is no longer sustainable. I actually am beginning to "hate" her. I know this is very un-Christian but I cannot help the feelings of resentment. I do not EVER want to see her again as long as I live. And I truly mean that.<P>There is no shame in calling it quits. I have spent every ounce of energy for the past four months trying my damnest wo "win" my wife back. She continues to flaunt her new found "love" in everyones face (going to Europe with this guy, etc.) I've had enough.<P>Now, I WANT the divorce. I say good riddance...I'll find someone who can love me and let me love them as it should be.<P>Do I sound bitter? You bet. That's why I haven't been posting on the forum lately...unfortunately I am a charter member of the 3% club.

Wex - <BR>the flip side of all of this is that all along (since OM) she has had you both. She had him when she wanted and you when she wanted. If she leaves, or gets out of the marriage and DOESNT have you ... it may be the eye opener she needed. Maybe she needs to be gone and out on her own (or with OM) to realize that she does love or miss you. She has no idea what life will be without you ... or life with OM will be ... she hasn't "lived" with him. As any affair, its all peachy and rosy till you start living together, sharing expenses, paying bills, and then the big bad world will come crashing down on her. Maybe she needs to see what living with this loser will be like to open up her eyes. As bad as it will hurt you ... it may help you.

Hi Wex:<P>I just want to let you know that although it appears that your W and OM seem to have won each other, please remember this:<P>"You reap what you sow". I thought the same thing about my W. Until they started to hate each other and the OM started to harass my W on the phone, calling her and she kept telling him to leave her alone.<P>It's justice in the works. Now my W is miserable and all alone. I, on the other hand, am getting better everyday and just starting to enjoy life again after 3 years of up & down emotional separation from her.<P>Do I miss what I used to have...sure I do but I finally figured out that there was nothing I could do about it.<P>Remember the old saying..."If you love something set it free, if it returns it was yours, if it doesn't, you never had it in the first place" or something like that. <P>Let your W go Wex. If it's meant to be you'll find out.<P>see ya<BR>GMC900

Wex...<P> <P>--andy

Wex, sorry to hear about this, but at least it’s a resolution of <B>some</B> sort. I’ve been waiting for something from you since I got here. I’ve got one question for you though... why didn’t you dump that lame-o counselor? My W and I don’t have a <B>great</B> counselor, but she’s at least objective, and gets me to thinking about things. In fact, at last night’s session (yep.. still going, a year and a half later), I made a major self-discovery. I won’t bore you with the details, but they always amaze me.<P>Shattered:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> unfortunately I am a charter member of the 3% club.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No you’re not. That 3% is for the affairs that wind up in a happy, long, married life together. Since your W’s OM won’t marry your W, it can’t happen. Even if you discount the piece of paper, you’d have to give them a few years to see if it “works” out for them. You don’t know that yet, and it’s my bet the OM will just move on to his next cookie sometime soon (a year or so, anyway), casting your W aside like so much garbage. It’ll most definitely be <B>her</B> loss at that point, since you won’t be around to pick up the pieces. <P>So maybe you’re a member of the 40% club; those marriages where an affair leads to a divorce. Still not a fun club to be part of... <P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

Wex - <P>My stomache knotted up when I read your post . <P>I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. It is time for the next level though. Plan B. Wex, let her go and let the OM try and meet ALL her needs. As Cndy said, your wife is been playing you and this other guy. She's had the best of both worlds. This OM may not want to meet all her needs and your wife may find out she doesn't want him to either. <P>I don't think you should give up hope Wex. It can still work but you have to try all possible avenues. Don't let her play both of you any more. It's one or the other.<P>Be strong my friend. I know you are hurting real bad. Keep posting so we can help you through this. We're good at heart surgery and we'll pick you up and get you out of the line of fire. You're do for some R&R anyway.<P>Hang on Wex.<P>SHA<BR>

Wex, I agree with whodat. It is <B>some</B> sort of resolution. Perhaps now she will be able to admit to the affair.<P>Don't grovel at her feet asking her not to leave. Just let her know you don't want her to & she doesn't have to (if that's how you truly feel).<P>Lay off the drinking for a while. It's too easy to get caught in the trap. I have stopped & I feel much better! You'll do okay buddy, just hang onto your sanity.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

Wex I'm sorry it didn't work out <P>I agree with SHA move on to plan B. You will lay the foundation for moving on with your life if she doesn't come back, and if she does it will probably be because of a high dose of reality. From what I've read from other posters it is not unusual for the betrayer to leave and come back several times. Plan B prepares you for all outcomes. <P>------------------<BR>It's always darkest before the dawn

Wex, I'm sorry. Wish I could think of something to help you.<P>(((((Wex)))))

Hi Wex -<P>I'm sorry that you are hurting so bad.....BIG HUGS to you!!<P>Listen to the others...there is still hope here and you have to get your mind concentrated on YOURSELF for a while.<P>Forget trying to make her admit, snooping and all that stuff. I know that that was at least something concrete that you could have an attempt at control with in all of this nightmare. That parts done for now.<P>Your next focus is you and making yourself feel better. Like Chris said, start with the drinking...it is a very bad solution to problems of the heart!!<BR>It will only keep you anchored in your misery and I like you to much to see that for you!!! Your a good guy who has a sense of humor (albeit warped at times...LOL!!) and that is what will help you through these bad times and it is ultimately what might reattract your Wife!!<P>Plan B is an option....but Plan A is also a lot easier when they are not living with you.....that part of it can be figured out after a little feeling out of each other if she moves.<P>My main concern for you right now is this counselor......I think that you need a different one!! Preferably for both of you....but definitely for you!!<P>You should not come away feeling beaten down for yourself and having your marriage encouraged to be over. THAT is not good counseling....I don't care if you were a bad boy in their eyes or not!<BR>If that was the case then the focus should have been help for you to look at the underlying factors of your behavior..not just to get rid of you.<P>GET A NEW COUNSElOR!!!!<P>Stay with us Wex.....we're here for you and this does not have to be the end..<P>We'll help you with a fresh beginning and maybe, just maybe your Wife will hop on sometime!!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba<BR>

Wex-<BR>It's not over until its over. It's so much better to have things out in the open. Really, you can't continue the way things have been. But I think you are right about not going through the emotional pretzel routine. <P>Read my post about the prodigal son from a few weeks ago -- do your best to let her go with love.

Wex,<BR>Sorry to hear the news. I have to agree with the others about Plan Bing her.<P>As you said at least you know where you stand now. Prepare yourself but leave a door open.<P>It will be hard to bear the anger and resentment you are feeling towards her but try to refrain from love busting.<P>Just work on yourself and improve what ever you have to.<P>Keep posting and PRAYING!!!<P>God Bless!

Hi everyone and thanks as always for your kind words and advice. Just a few general thoughts before answering you individually. I wrote a long email to my W this morning after I got to work in which I told her 1st how much I still love her and then proposed we do a kind of in-house separation, where we sleep in separate beds (since sleeping with me in both senses seems to be a problem for her) but actually stay married, keep our joint finances, and even eat and do stuff together. It's the best I can do. If she doesn't go for it, she's outta here. Also don't think that this is because the OM asked her to do this. She's been very reluctant, in part I think because she knows in her heart of hearts (as I do) that it's not going to work with him.<P>annie - No it isn't over till it's over. She made a serious threat to leave (after one of our fights) a year ago and I persuaded her to stay (begged her actually, on my knees yet - no more o' that!)<P>Sheba - Thanks, the hugs feel good and I can use plenty! As to our counselor, I think that was probably our last session with him. If W goes, we won't need him anyway. If she stays,I guess we might go one more time though I will try to avoid it. Frankly, I don't want any more counseling with anyone for a while. I am counseled out and think the whole process actually made our marriage worse rather than better. Maybe it helped to cut down the fighting and make it less intense. That's about it. Drinking - yeah, it's only this whole process that's made me turn in that direction. I think when it's over I won't have much trouble stopping. Right now I need it, unfortunately. As to which "plan," I haven't really got that figured out yet.<P>Sweetpea - You DO help just by being there and giving hugs and support (hugs in particular). Thanks.<P>awoken and SHA - As I said at the top, I haven't given up ALL hope for my marriage. I guess I am going to a kind of modified Plan B, at least suggesting to W that we separate within our house but stay married. I've told her I really would like it if she at least doesn't leave home. I'll sleep separately, stay out of her hair, not hassle her about what she does with her time (including spending it with OM), whatever.<P>Chris and WhoDat - I wonder if these things are ever resolved? But yeah, at least we've moved to the next stage, the proto-breakup stage I guess you could call it. (But actually we've been there for some time.) I have done a lot of groveling before her in my time (both for fun and for real!) but have no intention of doing so this time. I am NOT going to try and talk her out of leaving, if that's what she really wants to do.<P>As for the drinking, as I told Sheba, I do feel a lot better when I'm not and I know that, but still.... I'll work on it, anyway, no promises.<P>andy - That's just about how I look right now too. Thanks for the sympathy. I does help, believe me. This place is the only place where I can say what's really on my mind and not get back some dishonest, manipulative response as I do with W and couples counselor.<P>gmc900 - Nice ta meet ya! (See I can still be cheerful, folks, I think that's a good sign.) Yeah, I keep telling myself those things. I think my W is really just addicted to the OM. He turns her on in ways I dont, I guess (not just sexually) and she can't let that excitement go. I don't think it's reciprocal. I think if he really loved her, he would have asked her to run away with him a long time ago and she would have. So I definitely don't think she's going to be a member of that 3% club. I actually feel bad for her that the OM probably doesn't love her as much as she loves him and is just using her, because I know going to him will be really, really bad news for her and she'll regret it the rest of her life! I'm not hoping this will happen, but I'm betting it will.<P>Cndy - I hope you're right. She did "come back" to her previous relationship for one more try after she left it. I'm not sure how I feel about this. If it didn't work the first time around....<P>Shattered - After my own experience, I can sure see why you'd feel like that. There have been times when I've gotten very, very angry at my W that I've felt like that. But when I calmed down and thought about what splitting would mean, I stopped thinking like that. I will continue to love her if she goes, but I will not continue to wish she would come back, I don't think.<P>cl - Boy, do I love those hugs! (I'm feeling very hugged on this forum about now and believe me, it helps.) If she leaves, we definitely won't be going to any counselor at all and that will be a BIG relief!<P>Janie - Thanks for your prayers. Actually, I don't seem to be taking this quite as hard as I thought I would. Maybe realizing the implications of my W's affair has helped me to get a little distance from my obsession with her. Then again, maybe what's happend just hasn't hit home yet. But I don't feel that it's going to destroy me.<P>R & B,<P>--Wex

Hey, Wex, I'm late again, but still so, so sorry. Wish I could say something to make you feel better. Add some extra hugs from me, too.<P>Lori

Wex,<P>Nothing to add for ya. <P>Except think of the next step as a "predisclosure plan B" and being a guini pig that I will watch to see what happens next.<P>UGGGHHHH word for this thread.

((((((Wex)))))) So sorry to hear about the latest events in your life. I heard something on television (spend lots of time there, don't I?) about the grass always looking greener on the other side, until you get there, and find crabgrass. Something like that, but you get the drift. Where else is she going to find a guy with so much passion/love for her, and a great sense of humour as well? It really is her loss, and hopefully with her leaving, she will wake up to the real world soon enough.<P>I know how you are feeling, as there comes a time when we just can't go forward anymore, until we deal with the unfinished business that has been left behind. I can't tell you how many times I am so tempted in counselling, to give THE ultimatum, the truth or get out, and then I cower once again. I guess I will know when I am ready. I spoke to the counsellor today, and she told me to be prepared for what might happen. She personally doesn't think my H will ever admit the affair, given the strange circumstances, although she is more than convinced from listening to his double standard theory, that he IS guilty. She thinks I should just "forget it" and carry on, being content that my H is trying to make amends. My question to her was, if the shoe was on the other foot, would he be so "generous" to just "let it go" and carry on? NOT! <P>Remember, we are all here for you, to cry with you, and laugh with you, and even curse with you. Geez, I haven't gone on a "cursing tangent" for awhile, and I'm due! Take care of yourself, and keep your chin up.<P>------------------<BR><BR>SUCCESS STORY<P>

Everyone - another update to my story. Last night W was sitting at the dining room table crying to herself. I heard her and came up from the basement and comforted her. She made dinner and we ate together and then, afterwards, the way we usually do, she came over and sat on my lap awhile. And for the first time in a long time, I really felt some love coming from her and it made me so happy I couldn't believe it! Then she gave me my (belated) anniversary present which turned out to be 4 T-shirts she'd had made with her pet name for me printed on them and a cute logo to go with it. I was so touched that I broke down and cried and wore one the T-shirts for the rest of the evening. I was so happy. But she did make it clear that this doesn't necessarily mean we're not going to split. She said, "Love isn't the issue."<P>why me (aka SUCCESS!) - I can really relate to your story. It sounds very similar to my own situation in terms of the betrayer not confessing, though I don't think my W has given up her affair yet. I was actually thinking that maybe she had until I saw her and OM together in his car. What I can't believe is that now, since I've confronted her, she knows that I actually SAW her with this guy, and she STILL denies she's having an affair, telling me I'm delusional. And at our last session, our counselor even said to me something like, "Her affair doesn't matter. What matters is that she's not giving you the love, attention and sex that you want and need." I just about went ballistic when he said that her affair doesn't matter. It's at the root of all of our problems! And thanks for all the hugs, I need all I can get at this point!<P>TNT - Thanks. It is an UGH thread, that's for sure. But less so after less night, maybe (see the top of this post). I don't know.<P>lostva - I'm feeling even more hugged now. Oh, yeah!<P>RWD - Sorry didn't mean to leave you out of my previous answer, but your post wasn't there when I was writing it. Think we must have posted about the same time, but yours ended up above mine. Oh, I am keeping the door open. She knows it's always open. I gave up trying to leave HER out of anger a long time ago. I just couldn't do it. And I know that if she leaves me, I'll always be willing to take her back, no matter what happens. It's just the way I feel about her.<P>--Wex