I got the ILYBNILWY speech 5 days BEFORE d-day. But I'm sure I fit into your theory (whatever it is), because of events I found out afterward.

Two weeks before ILYBNILWY, OWH discovered hickeys on OW's neck. She had previously had an affair and he expected OM#1 who was their DD's daycare lady's BF (follow that?). He exposed to the daycare lady who had it out with the BF, who denied it, and who ended up telling the truth. OW (my WXH's OW) fessed up that it was someone at work, but didn't disclose my WXH's name. OWH had had enough and gave OW one month to get out of the house. These are the facts.

The presumption: OW gave WXH the ultimatum - ditch me and move in with her or they are done. (or something like that) During the 2 weeks leading up to ILYBNILWY, WXH was very withdrawn. I knew there was a lot of reorganization going on at his work and presumed he was worried about his job. Ya - I'm a dumba$$. He also started carrying his cell with him and receiving calls that he didn't answer. Again - dumba$$ (me). Looking back, I believe he was agonizing over the decision and trying to figure out what to say to me. Perhaps he ordered the Wayward Manual at this time and it took 2 weeks to arrive through Canada Post. In any event, he came up with ILYBNILWY (along with a bunch of logistical "solutions" to get me out of the house and her in).

As to when the A went physical it's hard to say for sure. ILYBNILWY was April 07. D-day was May 07. Both WXH and OW admit to having been together since Feb 07. In Feb 07, WXH visited his mom (alone) and told her he was unhappy with his M and thinking of leaving (I had no clue at the time and we even had a fabulous valentine's dinner that year). OWH and I were able to compile evidence that they'd been together since at least August 06. It was January 06 when she'd been caught with OM#1. My guess is that it went physical shortly before or around the time he visited his mom. I would also wager that, had OW never been caught by OWH, the affair would have continued underground until it burnt itself out.

So, assuming my assumptions are true:

Time from beginning of A to physical: 6 months
Time from PA to ILYBNILWY: 3 months

For me the ILYBINILWY speech actualy came 2 months prior to PA - I was 2 months into EA. Did not realize it at the time - just thought he was a good friend listening to my problems. I thought the OM was helping me - little did I know how wrong I was.

My FWW's EA lasted about 8 months.

I got the "I'm not happy" speech 5 days after the EA went PA.

I'm sure it was done out of guilt, but the guilt didn't last long...

Didn't get the ILYBINILWY speech, didn't get the "I'm not happy" speech... everything seemed to be pretty good in our marriage except this close friend of FWW.

Had been agonizing for months over this relationship I saw getting too close... didn't know what to do. Finally snooped, caught her on the phone with him talking about divorcing me and moving in together, D-Day later that night (hadn't found MB yet).

Never got that speech; closest I got was "I love you, but when you do things like this, you make me hate you" (in response to my exposure to OMW).

Same here - for about a year before ILUBNILWU, I was uncomfortable with exWW and her "friendship" with POSOM. Everytime I brought it up, I always got the "he's a family member" and why do you have to act like a jerk?

I didn't get the speech. But I did get enough negative vibes that I ended up asking FWH if he was having an A ("Of course not!") Eerie, how well our bullsh*t detector works, even at the cloudiest of times...

Lizzy, can I ask you what reason did you have to make the speech? I guess I am trying to understand the logic behind it - I am wondering how many D-days wouldn't have happened if that speech wouldn't have happened.

So taking from this example the speech didn't happen in the moment it went to PA but in the moment he had to make a decision of some sort? The dynamic of the affair changed?

I got the ILYBNILWY speech the night my DH took me to dinner to tell me his decision (as a result of my ultimatum). This was after D-Day but I don't remember exactly how long after.

Oh, and their A went PA the night they met.

That's one way of looking at it. Does this align with your theory?

In some way yes - I think that something is happening which makes that speech happening in that moment if you know what I mean.I guess I am trying to figure our what happened in my WH's case so he made the speech on that day back in April. I know it's only a guess anyway but it keeps my mind busy

Oh yeah, thats it I got the speech the moment he had to make a decision betw OW and me......My speech was "I love you like a sister".....My thought on it was that he in other words was saying I want to have sex with OW but I want me and you to still be buddies....

Of course this was when he was trying to convince me that what would be best is if he moved downstairs so he could be there for DS and I....

It seems like it should be the "I want my cake and eat it too" speech....

Sometimes I think the speech has also another purpose - in my case anyway - WH told me all the things he disliked about me - now maybe they were shown in an extreme but I think some of them were actually how he really felt. So it's not only "I want my cake and eat it too..." but wanting an improved cake(in this case I am the cake ) - because what's the first thing the BS does - improving...how clever...

I also think "physical" might not have to mean "sex". Because when I think about it, there was some sort of unfinished business/EA for almost my entire marriage--even if they only spoke once or twice a year by phone. It was always done from work (him), and never disclosed to either spouse. And there was at least a 3-4 year period prior to the reunion where I think they lost contact because they exchanged cell numbers there and he'd had that number for a few years by that point. But I've come to believe there had to be something there otherwise, why not tell me 'so-and-so called me at work today...'

Anyway, it took a few times telling and retelling the story but it's stayed fairly consistent since then. At first he said there was no physical contact. Then there was a hug. Then he admitted a kiss. Then he admitted it was on the lips.

I think there was some pretty passionate kissing involved and some clothes may have even come off but I'm still fairly sure that they didn't go all the way with it. However, it was enough to classify as PA in my mind and when he came home from that reunion...THAT was when I got the ILYBINILWY speech. So that fits the theory as well.

Interesting theory. When you think about it, it's not like ILYBNILWY comes up in casual conversation around the dinner table. And it's also not really temper-tantrum driven either - "I hate you" usually fills that bill. It seems to be more of a prethought, planned-out speech designed to serve a purpose, be it cake eating or some way to get the OP while not ticking off the BS. Would you agree?

I have no doubt that the things WH told me that he disliked about me were things that he actually disliked about me and how he actually felt at the time. But it was definitely the affair behind why he disliked those things and felt that way. Many of the things wrong with me were characteristics I had when we met. Why would you date someone with green eyes if you hate green eyes? It doesn't make sense but then nothing waywards do is logical. You can't get hung up on this stuff because it's misguided and half-crazy. And when the dust finally settles - they don't really dislike that stuff that much at all. They might even miss it.

The timing of the ILUBNILWU speech in my case may have coincided with exWW finally crossing the boundary from EA to PA (maybe not SF but behavior which jeopardizes a marriage and NO spouse would approve of). From what I could piece together from OM's history, SOMETHING physical happened in the days prior to the speech. Based on his history, he probably put a LOT of pressure on exWW because he knew if I wasn't off the property in two weeks, he would lose his horses to his father's repossession. THere is no coincidence that POSOM's father was supposed to take possesion of POSOM's horses the day AFTER exWW placed the first protection order on me.

I agree that the speech seems kind of pre-planned designed to serve a purpose.