MB people are very focused on men's behavior, citing the pains caused by men's neglect, men's choices, men's this and men's that. My WW had an EA and I did great Plan A, used MB to discover and expose. But since then, and in fact before, she was the one who was neglectful of my EN's which led me to get into withdraw mode. The EA was a high energy month, now back to the same point as whole marriage where I am falling over myself trying to meet EN's and FWW gives nothing back, she is reverting to neglect, causing me to withdraw. I guess the point is, I've tried... tried before I found MB, tried during the EA, and now continuing to try after. An EN-neglecting wife is worse than no wife, even if I had to pay child support and leave my house and go live in a tent. Because then I wouldn't give and give and get nothing in return except a drib or drab here and there. The MB rhetoric says "just hang in there, man! With a cheery wink and pat on the back. But that's not the advice women are given. They are surrounded with other women and hugged and supported against the "bad man" who has neglected them, and in fact when they file for divorce 50% more than men, the reason is "I just don't love him anymore" or "I love you but not in love with you". This is perfectly understandable, says the world and many MB members": the man who is neglecting your EN's should be dealth with. But with men, the message isn't understanding due to a bad wife, a contempt-deserving woman who takes and takes and takes and gives nothing in return. Men are told simply that "you need to give more". Does anyone else see the inconsistency of this? When is enough enough? It would seem a silly waste of time to keep trying to give and give to a marriage that simply wasn't going to work, or was destroying me through neglect. Better to strategize and get out of the M with some resources so I'm not actually living in a tent. But let me be pefectly clear - if I really did only have a tent, but had a new W who actually wanted to give to me and wanted to recieve my love, then perhaps this really would be better. I'll do without cable TV in order to have my hearts desire.

-Bother (other username/display name was detected by FWW and thus I had to create a new one).

Huh? I really dont see that...I think a lot of the BS on here are women, maybe that is why you think the MB people focus on men, IDK....I just dont see that goin on here. Maybe I am missing something, wouldnt be the first time.

I see alot of holding to account women who neglect their H's ENs around here.

Can you get your W to attend a MB's weekend?

I don't see that either Still. I think selfish people are held to account. Wayward thinking is held to account, but I have never noticed a particular sex being coddled or being given an easier time in any way.

Bother - you are obviously hurting a lot right now and no doubt feel you are banging your head against the proverbial brick wall.

I think more so for women than men, their A's are very often felt to be exit A's and the W's have already withrawn completely from the M by the time the A starts.

I think there is then a greater difficulty for the BH's to get their WW's to recommit to the M. Can you tell us more about what is going on and perhaps the good people here can offer support and advice?

I am so sorry for coddling all these wayward wives on MB for the last 8 years. I now see the error of my ways.

I HAVE seen a double standard, especially the chix that had a sick child.

She got a free pass.

I bitterly disagree with the concept of an "exit affair". That is a term invented by cranial-rectal-inverted self-help pop psychologists to excuse the behavior because a partner has already "left the marriage".

Total, absolute feel-good-being-dirty hogwash, and not in any way a concept that is useful as part of the MarriageBuilders program. Its only utility is to place blame on the betrayed spouse while protecting the cheating spouse's affair from criticism.

Mel=coddle

there's an oxymoron......

It's to bad the threads have been lost because I would say since May, 80% new posts were BH and I remember many of them getting support and advice to either stay or leave, depending on their situation. Some were even told by vets here that Divorce is the Recovery. I'm not in agreement with your assessment Bother. DNU was a good H who tried to recover his M and many here encouraged him to leave his WW - he did get D.

You're hurting and you are using MB as a punching bag - tell us what's going on.

Gg

I have seen , on some sites, the dynamic you describe. For some strange reason, there seems to be a belief by some that men do not have as great a need for intimacy, communication, and emotional support.
I read an e-book by a woman named Michelle Langley, "Women's Infidelit II" which addresses these misconceptions. She points out that men are often very good communicators and very good at emotional intimacy, but their efforts are often rebuffed or dismissed by their wives who decide to cheat.
Another good site with support for guys dealing with emotionally abusive and neglectful women is Shrink4men.wordpress. It is owned by a woman PhD and she really offers a lot of support and advice for guys in relationships with these types.
We are beginning to realize that men do not have a monopoly on violence and other forms of abuse in relationships.
My XWW was about as abusive a person as I have ever come across with a huge sense of entitlement and not capacity for intimacy. Yet, she is the one who cheated, repeatedly, because her "emotional needs " were not being met.(tough to meet those needs when she is drunk so much, absent or raging). And, oh, she was just great at meeting the needs of her family--yeah, right

"Exit affair" as an excuse? Not around here - it just has a little different shading to it.

Standard affair - EN's not being met, but overall has been a good, connected marriage, up until the point where someone else steps in to meet EN's for one of the spouses. At that point, the WS withdraws in earnest.

Exit affair - one spouse has been unhappy, and grown withdrawn on their own. As they search for a way out, but just haven't taken the plunge yet, someone meets their EN's and an affair is off and running.


Both affairs - equally wrong.
Both affairs - treatable with MB.

Why is a distinction made? IMO because an exit affair may require more time and patience to end, and re-attach the WS. It excuses nothing, but simply indicates small variations in the treatment.

Exit affairs are a particularly cowardly and cruel way for a spouse to make you, as the moving party, the bad guy. WTF is wrong with these WS who have these. I mean divorce is no fault most places. All they have to do is ask and they are out.
These nuts forget, in many cases, tht there are years left to co-parent and the hurt and resentment they leave behind makes that much more difficult.
If a spouse wants out, do it honorably. No need to inflict this type of additional trauma.

"exit affair" is in the same class as other mythological, meaningless terms such as "mid-life crisis," "closure" and "soul-mate." It sounds cute and trendy to say, but means nothing; bumper stickers substituted for critical thinking.

And the rest of you people are coddlers!! Admit it!!

I admit it.....I'm a coddler.....


not2fun

I like apple coddler, so I guess that counts...

Sorry you are having a bad day, bother. No one has to do Plan A or B if he/she doesn't want to do them.

Sometimes it seems like that to me as well bother, but I would say it's equal. What I do notice is either more BH coming on here or more WW, and don't know if it matters. I think society as a whole as really screwed the pooch for a good marriage. Stop watching tv for one.

The women's movement had to be done, but to the extent and extreme that it went threw masculinity out the window and to assert your masculinity is seen as chauvanistic. My wife and I were talking about a trip she went on, here is what happened.

Coach 25 yr old, 2 younger 8th graders and the women went to a resturant. The table was big enough for them all, but they only had a few chairs to start. The 25 yr old male and the two male 8th graders immediately grabbed the chairs, while ALL the women and girls were standing. Survival of the fittest or loss of chivalry? You decide. My wife said, "Guys, there are women standing while you are sitting."

Now that bodes well for my wife who was raised by a VERY dominating, feminist mother and a knight in shining armour chivlrist father. The loss of masculinity, the use of please, sorry, thank you and the loss of respect is gone.

Another example is my dad retiring in 1 week, but will get a job as a carpenter for a small family general contractor. He'll get this job easily, as I know the contractor (he worked on my office and home). The contractor said it's the hardest thing to get 40 yr old or younger to work or stay on, as they want high $$ without working, they just expect it. They've come to an entitlement mentality that I blame on the give me society that I believe started with the overly powerful feminist movement. The contractor said these 30 somethings act like his teenage daughter did; disrespectful, sassy, minimalist, and demanding. I think my dad will have plenty of work.

I think men have been taught to bend over backward, when they actually did before, but now they are expected to do it without the respect they were once given, because after all women can do it to.

Is that bitter enough Mel... you cobbler?

I tend to agree with the OP. Women choose divorce 2 or 3x as often as men do.

Yet turn on the TV or the radio and you hear about how women are mis-treated, how men are bad, etc. Dr Phil, Oprah, etc.

Little or nothing about the women who fail to meet needs, etc.

Listen to a sermon on Mother's day vs Father's day.

Mother's Day summary: Mothers are great, we should all be thankful for mothers.

Father's Day summary: Father's need to step up and quit abandoning their families.

Totally out of touch with reality, since the stats indicate that men are forced out of their own homes two to three times more frequently than they abandon their families.

Even Dr Harley says in his article about Why Women Leave Men that the truly betrayed or abused, he can't convince those women to divorce. The women choosing to divorce are merely neglected.

I don't deny that. But what I ask is are these husbands the only ones who were being neglected?

How many of them tried, but were met with a critical wife? What happens to anyone when faced with seeming endless criticism? They stop.

So what is society telling us? Go back and look at the sermons above. Men=bad, women=must be revered.

That message is probably repeated by these wives who choose to divorce their husbands, rather than doing the work marriage requires.

So I think we as a society do give women a pass. Most have already bought into the lie that women are better at relationships than men. They have bought into the lie that men have more affairs than women (really, are men having affairs with other men? No, so it's likely there are as many women involved in affairs as men.)

So yes, you can call it a double standard, or call it selective ignorance, but it's out there, and rather prevalent.

The idea that if a man has an affair he's bad, we agree with that. But largely, if a woman leaves, the assumption is that the woman was mis-treated, so she's justified in leaving, having an affair etc.

Even my pastor, when I went to him with my ex-wife's affair asked what I did to her to make her have an affair.

Good grief, if a man who has studied the sin nature of humanity asks such an insane question, there really is no hope.