Excellent post, Mark! LL, some other points I would like to make about forgiveness. Forgiveness is contingent upon repentance. His victim, the OW's husband and his own congregation do not even know what he has done to them. He has sinned against God, but he has also sinned against this woman's husband and his own congregation. Not telling them what he has done to them is to decieve them, and most certainly is not "repentance."

Luke 17:3-4
So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

Just as God does not forgive us without repentence, his victims cannot obviously forgive him if they are being decieved about his crime against them. Deceiving his victims about his crime is not repentance. The fact that he lied about the OW's identity and wants to hide his crime from his victims tells us exactly how "repentant" he really is. Being deceitful and arrogant is hardly an indicator of a contrite or repentant heart.

Secondly, being forgiven does not mean he is a fit pastor. We may forgive the bank robber but that does not mean we give him the keys to the bank and TEMPT him to rob the bank again. Rather, he should be removed from temptatation. The pastor has proven he cannot be trusted in a position of authority. He has HARMED his flock and is not fit to herd them anymore.

Church members needs to KNOW that this pastor is an unrepentant adulterer who sexually exploits his female members. They have a right to know this so they can take steps to protect their own families from him.

As long as OW is still attending that church, then that's a problem. He needs to eliminate her entirely from his life. He needs to tell the congregation, but, if he refuses to do so, at the very least, he needs to leave that church.

Is he currently standing up there preaching on sunday mornings, where he could potentially be ogling the OW?!?!?!!?!?

I am amazed his wife is able to endure that. and OW just "recently" joined the church?!?!?!? mighty convenient, if you ask me.....

I don't believe the A is over.

Lady Lynn,

Mel has brought up the word repentance. It's something I get to talk about every now and again around here. If this man is a pastor, he should know the origin of that word. It is in two parts.

The first part, "re" means the same thing it does in English which is to do something over or again. Like the word repeat or redone, it implies another time of doing the same thing.

The second part, "pent" comes from the word for head or to think or to have a thought. Together they mean to think again or literally to have a second thought, as in "On second thought..." This implies a change not simply in actions but in thinking. True repentance comes from a change in the way we think and from that flows a change in what we do.

This is really all that God requires of us when we sin, that is to repent. We thought what we were doing was the right thing to do but on second thought, we realize that God's way is the right way and ours was wrong. An indication of true repentance is an expression of sorrow for what we have done, but that isn't the same as simply saying "I'm sorry" to God and letting it go back to normal.

Trust me on this point if nothing else, God will not allow this to remain a secret forever. It will come out some way some day at a time when it will cost much more than it will today if it is allowed to remain hidden. Even then it can be forgiven, but the consequences will extend not merely to the affair and its aftermath but to the lying, deception and lack of being able to properly do his job as long as this sin remains a burden for he and his wife to carry inside themselves.

You said they are counseling. Is this with a biblical based counseling program? Is it with someone who deals with, not just typical marital problems but is used to dealing with infidelity as well?

Recovery from this for he and his wife will take a couple of years if they do everything right. What does he tell his congregation when he and his wife can't sit in the same room together one Sunday or she takes the day off from church because she is burnt out from dealing with this? How can he get up and preach what God has told him to give to his congregation in the way of instruction if his mind is on how to reply to his wife?

I know some of these issues appear for any teacher or pastor who has been called to preach, but infidelity has so many twists and turns in the recovery process that it's hard to do a normal 9 to 5 job and deal with it. If I make a mistake at work somebody gets the wrong cellphone or I can't make a radio work like it should. I had to stop teaching Sunday School when my wife had an affair. I only now have been able to get back into it and it's been over three years. BTW, we're teaching MB to other couples together, but we didn't get here over night and neither did we get here by lying...

Mark

There's been a lot of talk about the pastor being a danger, and rightly so. But what about the OW who "gets around"?

If I were the pastor's wife, I'd feel obligated to expose her to the congregation so they're aware of what she's capable of, AND DOING. The congregation needs protection from both of them, IMO.

Thank you

Have you and LadyLynn been the same person from the beginning of this thread?

If you are separate people, why don't you invent a name for yourself and continue to post? The name could be anything - "Lynn's friend" would do.

If LadyLynn gave you the site link and the password so that you could post as her, it would not be any harder for you to post under your own name. This way will just be confusing for readers.

LadyLynn, I know of no way to magically make the thoughts go away. That is an unrealistic expectation. They will go away over time. A LONG TIME.


With all due respect there are no "positive" ways to describe what your husband has done. This was a horrendous abuse of authority in a house of God. Jesus was OUTRAGED to see the money changers use a House of GOD for their own selfish, sinful purposes. Your H abused his authority in the same way by sexually exploiting a member of his flock. Jesus didn't say positive words to the money changers and you shouldn't expect others to say positive words about his crime in a House of GOD.

The only words I can think to say are:

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Galatians 6:7-10

He has done a terrible thing and has been a bad person. If he doesn't admit that himself, then he is NOT remorseful and is likely to do it again. Sweeping the true nature of his crime under the rug will not help him, it will harm him. Nor can he recover as long as his other victim, the OW's husband is ignorant of his crime against him.

LL, if you want to help your H become a good man, then help him make amends to his victim, the OW's H. And make sure he never is in a position of authority again unless he has truly repented. If his victim still does not know what he has done, then he has not repented.

Very sorry you're in this situation.

I can't help you w/ the BS's perspective -- others here can.

Have you & your husband gotten the book "Surviving An Affair" (as hope3343 recommended)? If not, this would be a very useful thing for you to do. It provides some crucial perspectives for a BS ( as well as a WS) about how & why these things can happen, and, looking forward, how couples can give themselves a better chance of keeping an affair from happening again.

Thank you

Thank you

Dear LadyLynn,

In case to be sure, I read your thread twice but I didn't see any discouragement to save your marriage at all. Instead of it, I saw very very good and correct advice from people who have been through the hell of infidelity themselves.

These people helped you to find out the truth about your life. Without it, you could be sitting in your church next to this OW without knowing...

These forums are full of excellent and proven in real life advice for saving marriage after affairs. There is a narrow road for this - it starts with no contact between affair partners and exposure.

Does OWH know the truth?

Well, LadyLynn, that does sound rude. I was not rude to you. I asked about your identity because I thought that your being honest would be a good step. This is an anonymous board and, as you say, the name you give yourself does not matter.

You seem to have wanted to hide when you came here posting as your friend. There is no need to hide from people who do not know you, but being honest the affair is important. The "shame" of the affair is not yours, unless you choose to hide the affair from people to whom you have a responsibility; the congregation, the church authorities and OWH.

Pretending that this was not you all along was an odd thing to do, but by all means, continue to do it. It does not make any difference to me!

As LadyLynn's friend, you were reluctant to see why the pastor should admit his behaviour to the church elders and OWH, and resign from his ministry. You saw this as unfair condemnation for one sin, of which we are all guilty.

As LadyLynn you are here saying that everyone that needs to know has been told. You have not been specific about who has been told, and what. You now want people here to stop discussing the affair and only to tell you how you can move on.

I think you will find that people here do not see that moving on and rebuilding the marriage can be done without confession, which must come before repentance, to the people harmed.

What do the church elders propose to do about your H's future in the ministry?

LadyLynn, I beg to differ. From this thread, I have not seen anyone drawing that conclusion for you.

Rather, the people here who posted to you have been trying to get across the point that there's little hope for a marriage in which an affair is not ended properly & completely, and in which key truths are swept under the rug through lies. Your understanding this point isn't a trivial matter; it's crucial to giving you a fighting chance to save your marriage.

Exposure, making sure the WS has ended the affair, establishing verifiable "no-contact", practicing the rules of Protection, Care, Honesty & Time with respect to one another, and ID'ing and learning to meet each other's emotional needs, are avenues toward hope. But if you & your husband cut corners on these things, then hopeless is what you're likely to get.

The only info at our disposal has been what you and/or your friend have told us. That has included:

(1) Telling us that H told you he didn't know the OW's name, but then later telling us that this turned out to be untrue after all. (Posters here who were suspicious of this falsehood turned out to be correct.)

(2) Telling us (as some posters suspected before you revealed it, perhaps even before you discovered it yourself) that she was indeed a member of the congregation, which suggested that your husband was feeding you "trickle truth", i.e., continuing to conceal facts of the affair from you after it had supposedly ended;

(3) Indicating that your husband at least initially wished to remain in his position without full disclosure to his church leadership of facts that are reasons why he is at least temporarily disqualified from it (which also pointed to a continuing mindset of less-than-complete honesty on his part); and

(4) Suggesting (as far as we could tell) that your husband might have entertained, at least for a time, plans to remain in the church at the same time as OW, meaning that they would've been in continuing contact.


I hope you can step back & see that the advice you were given on this forum was all directed at flushing truth out into the open, and at giving you a fighting chance. Affairs, by their very nature, are built on lies & deception (my own affair certainly was); and so for you as a couple, trying to "move on" before he has fully come clean & put a stop to any lies & deception would be like trying to build a house on a foundation whose concrete hasn't yet dried. Once the foundation is solid, then you can rebuild the rest; but not until then.

If there is more info that you'd care to share, there are plenty of betrayed spouses here who can understand (better than I ever could) what you're feeling & what you're dealing with, and who perhaps can help you.

No one here has EVER said "one strike, you're out." That is a foreign notion on a forum where folks have been forgiven much. Telling you how to recover a marriage by facing the consequences of his actions is not the same as telling you to give up on your H.

I very much believe your marriage can recover. But it sure won't recover by sweeping the problem under the rug. And that is exactly what happened according to your friend. Has that changed? You may not want to hear what we have to say, but that is only because it seems to conflict with an intent to hide this crime from innocent people. That is not right, LL, and it sure won't help your marriage recover. It will keep your husband very sick.

Sweeping it under the rug almost ensures he will do it again. Do you want that? We are pro marriage, but we are not pro-sweep-the-problem-under-the-rug. That is exactly what your H was doing according to your friend. Did she misinform us?

Has he left the church? Has his other victim, the OW's husband been informed of his crime? Has the environment that made it possible for him to sexually exploit female parisioners been changed? That is what it will take to recover, LL. Sweeping it under the carpet and DEMANDING forgiveness [actually forgetness is what you are demanding] without repentance is not going to help your marriage.

Hi Ladylyn friend,

There are two issues here: One-the infidelity to you and Two- WH infidelity to his position as pastor.

Your husband needs to learn to be 100% honest. This will help rebuild trust and prevent reigniting the affair with new truths. Please read through the articles here to learn about the Policy Of Joint Agreement. Read the articles at this site.

This site is about marriage building. The affair is probably the largest lovebuster that anyone can lay on another. You need to establish boundaries which he may not transgress. In fact everyone needs to do this- your vow at marriage has to be checked. Another event = divorce!

A pastor is a target for waywards. Your husband will not be the last to fall. Pastors need to prevent untoward opposite sex interaction- One method is to refer ladies to wise old women after consulting with them. All meetings are to be professional and within consultation times.

Be prepared for many other triggers. Get rid of them if possible. Move-if necessary.

Your husband did the right thing to resign his post. The witness of the Church would have been impaired were he to continue preaching.

Last comment: As a poster has already commented OWH has to be told

Thank you

LL, I have reread this entire thread and don't see a single "negative" comment. What is "negative" is the pastor's behavior. Posters here are not apt to use positive words to describe something very negative. That would be dysfunctional and you won't find much doublespeak here. If the pastor and his wife are doing such a thing, that is a sign of waywardness that will keep them crippled. Bastardizing the English language in order to feel better about bad behavior is not a sign of recovery. A truly repentant person does not need to whitewash evil behavior.

Sorry, but folks here won't do that for anyone - that won't help anyone.

Rather I see very TRUTHFUL comments, and the truth is always positive. Even Jesus said, "the truth shall set you free." This forum will not help you whitewash bad behavior.

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 1John 3:18

It sounds like you have followed our advice for the pastor to confess to the congregation and leave the church. That is a step in the right direction and IS a sign of sincerity. THAT IS POSITIVE BEHAVIOR. However, the OW is a liar and it is unlikely that she confessed to her H. How do you know the OW's husband knows what was done to him? Relying on the word of a liar is very unrealistic.

LL, will the pastor come here and speak to us so we can help him recover his marriage?