Quite a story, Mel. Reminds me of one my Aunt Almedsa told me about her situation. Very similar.
My Uncle Jack was an Annapolis grad and a really strong guy. He just told her that she was history if she did not stop drinking, and he meant it.
She just died a few months ago, but my Aunt tole me that she was always grateful my uncle took a hard line like he did. She said it was the most loving thing anyone had ever done for her.

I feel the exact same way. Taking a stand was the most loving act he ever did. I will be eternally grateful. I shudder to think where I would be today if he hadn't. It horrifies me that my children would have been subject to my insanity if he had not stopped me.

I'm still scared....

SexyMamaBear --------> <--------- tst

Then get to the gym.

I'm a 3rd degree blackbelt and she still whipped my ssss

Packed my chit and threw it out the door too!

That's what 15 years of ballet training can do for ya!!

Who needs a black belt.

I had a black leotard.

Looked darn good in it, too!




That was long ago, dear.

I'm as sweet as can be now.

Your stuff's right where it belongs...

in our bedroom.

It just takes a little longer for most to win against those who don't give in.

Sure, you can cite stories of a few men who prevailed. However, those are the exception, not the rule.

I know they are the exception. Because most men just surrender at the first shot!

Mel;

what made you take your husband's ultimatum seriously after all his years of appeasement? Was it the first time he'd done that?

She is bad to the bone!

It was the first and ONLY time he ever stood up to me. He was a class A pansy. I took it seriously because I knew he meant it. He had a bus schedule to Texas in one hand and an AA meeting schedule in the other. He had already called AA and talked to them.

A woman after my own heart.

I've seen a friend and a family member, both BH's, both behave out of fear, but for different reasons.

BH #1, avoids conflict at all cost, nicest guy you'd ever meet. I always thought he'd be the perfect H. Wrong .... no passion
to save his M.
He was very afraid of making his wife angry, thought he would make the whole situation worse.
This guy lived with FALSE HOPE that WW would see the light on her own.
He truly enabled her behaviour.

BH #2, didn't avoid conflict with WW, but would not expose the A to the OMW's cuz of threats from WW about limited visitation with small child involved.
Separation was pending, papers just had to be signed.
Once the papers were signed, this BH exposed to OMW.
Had he done this sooner, with out the fear of WW's threats, I believe the outcome of their whole situation would have taken a different path.

They are also the exception for those who fight.

As I said, you can cite the exceptions, but for most, even those who fight, the outcome will not be in favor of the betrayed husband.

I can comment on both Melodylane and your post and answer all the questions I hope.

I dont know if I put the dates down correctly but it was after we had my daughter and wife was pregnant for 1st Son that I realized wife was out of control binge drinking. I was 28 years old. After we found out we were pregnant,(I was 26), my wife,(27), also at the same time had a pap smear and she found out she had cervical cancer. So she was pregnant out of wedlock and was sure she was going to die. She wanted to drink like a fish then.
The doctor told her that she could abort the baby or carry it full term but one way or another she had to have a cone biopsy before it spread. Because she was going to die she wanted to drink and even though she kept it at a minumum I constantly was after her because she was pregnant.
After my daughter was born she had the cone biopsy and it stopped the spread of the cancer. Her new reason to drink was then that she was living with me out of wedlock. I eventually got her to the justice of the peace and we got married. My wife blamed all of her issues on the fact that she was embarressed because she was not living right before God. She told me that when she was living on the bible campus she never drank but when I asked her to take me to her church she acted like she was ashamed to.
Now this all took place over a couple of years and all I knew was that I had this women who had so much potential I loved and I had gotten her pregnant. She was in no shape to be deserted even though she was miserable to be with. She deserved support and there was allways hope. There were dreams between us of course and some good times but they were getting few and far between as her drinking increased. She would start fights just for a reason to have a beer. Sometimes they got violent. I was not the violent type but this was getting to much to handle. Because my wife had gotten worse for the last two years I was also losing my own self-respect.
I had allready talked to her about how i wasn't going to continue enabling her but she would just get more angry. I was working every day and had a possible promotion to management coming up. She seemed to get worse whenever things were just about to get better. Sound familiar? One day I just realized that we were heading towards disater and I knew that if I stayed around the situation any longer I would never be able to keep a job or take care of my children. I knew she was sick and she would not seek help.
When she became pregnant again was when I got the most scared for all of us.
I brought my pregnant wife and my 2 year old daughter to her Foster Moms house in another state. I knew that my daughter would be cared for and that my wife would not get away with drinking for very long. At that point I was just tring to save myself and the idea was that I would get my children back if she didn't straighten out. I immediatly started to take care of myself, diet (Im a diabetic since 27) , exercise, positive thinking, prayer.
I label myself as WH because I now realize that I left her to save myself and that I could have done things differently regaurdless of the threats she threw around. I had run into an old flame around that time and entertained the idea of a life without alcohol. I didn't pursue her but I could see that I didn't deserve this life I had either. I had really screwwed my life up and it was obvious that my wife and I were going nowhere fast. Along with her drinking there were a few times of her infidelity and I was sure she wasn't capable of loving me. I wasn't going to subject myself to the treatment my wife was giving me even though I felt it was just as much my fault for letting it go on. The old flame was just a reminder of how life could have been. It was a wake up call to possibilitys of change.

So I was back on the track of trying to get a healthy perspective. I just lived for exercise and meditation and work. I didn't seek a relationship with the old flame but entertained it in my head as a possibility if I could save enough money to get my children back and establish a carreer or something solid for an income.
For 6 months my wife continued to drink out of state untill she finnally contacted her church to get some help in moving back to the town I lived in.
I encouraged her to get help and assured her that she was worth it but that I felt she should look elseware for someone she respected and was more of a "Christian" man. Something she had told me many times i wasn't.
After a year of being separated I started to go out with an old aquaintance of mine to bars. The object was to pick up girls for one-nighters. Something I wasn't ever good at and I thought maybe that was one of my problems. I thought that if I could just learn to have meaningless sex that I could shut off the emotions and guilt that plauged me. All of my past efforts of devoted relationships had ended up with me being taken advantage of.
I allways found it hard to pick up girls. I allways saw a human being underneath the woman I was talking to and my conscience could not be shut down. I was hell-bent on changing that about me.I ended up sleeping with someone. I also ended up in a relationship with her. I didn't plan on it but it happened. Now in my efforts to "fix" what was wrong with me I had gotten selfish and cruel. I didn't care about anyone anymore and became the kind of guy I allways hated. I didn't feel any better about myself and when that relationship ended I had to take a good look at myself. I hated what I saw. I was selfish and a wimp. I was afraid to commit myself to anything and I had children that needed a man to love them. I attempted suicide at one point and when I woke up the next morning wondered why God wanted me to live. I was worthless and pathetic.

So the answer to the manic question is obviuos. But let me say this.
1. I involved myself with a woman who had a drinking problem and somehow thought I could help her==isn't that a sign of someone who is on the high side of mania?
2. I felt that everything was my fault and fell into many depressions to the point of self loathing and attempted suicide== clinical depression

My wife had moved back to the state we were in 6 months after I brought her to her foster moms house. She had hit rock bottom there and they had put her up in a motel because nobody could stand her drinking.
After she moved back she started to contact me about reconciliation. Even though she was not drinking she still would not go to AA. She insisted that she had gotten right with God and that she would be fine now that she was attending church regularly. She didn't believe in AA. I knew that she was feeling bad about herself and I would try to get her just to seek help. I said even though I cared for her deeply I didn't think she understood how responsible I felt or how painful it was to watch her abuse herself. I had a hard time telling myself that I wasn't the guy for her and that she needed someone who she respected. She insisted that she was sorry and that that things would be better if we got back together. I believed that it would eventually turn out the same even if I put the foot down and refused to buy alcohol or allow it in the house. If she would not seek professional help and support she would relapse. I knew she had deep seated emotional issues and that she needed to seek counsel and clarity about them. She needed to trust a counselor outside of me. Then follow the rules she would have to live by the rest of her life to stay sober. She insisted all she needed was God.
This conversation and arguments went on for a year and a half before we got back together. I came back because I was not able to make the money or get the children from her and I felt I was a worthless man if I didn't get back in there and be around for my children. I remembered the rejection I felt from my father and how I swore I would never let my children suffer that. If my wife were to fall back into the mental illness of alcoholism the best place I could be was with them.

This is the philosphy that brought me together with my wife to begin with, when my future was bright and I was heading towards colledge.

When I was talking to her after the first date she was talking about her life as a child. It was heartbreaking. When she talked to me about losing her first son to her first husbands kidnapping she broke, and cryed. I could see that she had insecurity issues but because I thought I was special.. well I said to myself. "If you can't love this woman you don't deserve her" as God as my witness. Yes I fell hard . If I had known how steep our challanges would be and how ill equipped I was I would not have taken it on. But I was a foolish hero type. I thought I could show her unconditional love.


When I was separated from my wife later I read a book by scott peck called "The road less traveled"
There was a statement about emotional security of children and what he said was.

"I have found that Children who come from familys where they are never given up on or deserted are the most able to endure hardships in life. It is important that a child feel they are loved and that there is no behaviuor or circumstances that could happen that would separate them from there parent/s care. Money, material wealth, social standing or reputation will do very little for a childs self-esteem if they don't feel valued at thier core, loved without condition. It is most important that a child know that the parent will be there for them through anything and will never leave them"


This book and the realization of what I was reacting from helped me to realize no matter what I felt I needed to be home. Even if my wife could not ever have a healthy relationship with me I knew she loved her children with all of her heart. She also was never going to let her children go through what she did. I owed it to God and my children to return to the home and get over my problems.

There is more that I can talk about but I hope this answered the questions.


I was afraid of her when i left

My concerns for my children were like the instructions they give mothers in an aircraft when they say "If the oxygen mask drops, put it on yourself first, then put it on your child" You can't save your child if you pass out..

Was I manic at the time. Yes but with all the other drama going on I blamed a lot of it on that. I have allways had mood swings and suffered a lot as a child. I guess that I blamed a lot on circumstances. It wasn't till later in life that I had a name for my problems but I have gone to counsellors many times before. I have allways sought counsel, not allways the right kind but I am a peacemaker at heart.

Hope this answers those questions

You have your own issues which need to be addressed by you before attempting a reconciliation.

If you reach the point where you are healthy enough to think of a possible recovery, please look into adult RAD and see if you spot your wife in there.

http://attachinghearts.blogspot.com/2008/08/adult-rad.html

There is no excuse for an adult making wrong choices. Even if she has RAD, that's no reason to drink, cheat, be an unfit mother, or anything else. A greater understanding of RAD, if it applies, may be of assistance as she targets her own personal recovery.

Were you commenting to me neak? My wife has passed away. Im sorry I know that its probably uncommon for a widower to be posting here.
I wish she would have taken advice or counsel when she was alive. I brought her to many places but usually she thought she knew more than they did. Sad all around. Thx for the link tho I will look into it.

I'm so sorry. Now that you mention it, I remember reading your thread, and just hadn't realized it was you. It's wonderful that you came here, and you'll find plenty of insight to learn from past mistakes as you go forward with your life.

Even under the circumstances, I think you might be very interested in learning about RAD. Probably a lot of the unhealthy dynamics in your M will match up to the "RAD script", in its own way as eerily accurate as the "wayward script".

I know very little about adult RAD. For the last almost-2 years our family has been educating ourselves about kid RAD. I know enough to predict that, if these issues are not addressed in childhood, the results can be catastrophic.

I think most are not afraid of physical abuse. Most are afraid of financial and emotional fall out.

I was looking at handing over about 1/2 of my earnings and still having to pay for my own house and expenses. It didn't look possible at the time. My lawyer told me the state of Utah cared less who she screwed. I was losing half my income for the next 10 years. Since I tried to be a decent husband and worked my butt off to allow her to stay home with the kids (at her request) I had set myself up to get screwed even worse.

Also my fear of being alone made me weak.

EE, I know the outcome of those who don't fight: FAILURE. And it always will if they don't fight. I think things would change if men would start fighting back instead of acting like the French. Numerous men around here have won favorable outcomes by fighting back. It has to start somewhere!