Scotland, you don't go into Plan B, until you have all your ducks in a row. Until then, stick with Plan A. The *last* communication you have with him will be your Plan B letter.

Yes, he can see the kids. It's arrangned either through the letter or through your intermediary. What he does not get in this arrangement is YOU, in any way shape or form. Your Plan B letter should included a detailed way for him to be able to come home to you. That's vital. He has to know there's a path home but he also has to know he must exactly do as you say or he can't come home.

I had thought about him still coming here to watch the kids for me and me just going out one door as he came in the other but I know that wouldn't work. I might just have to quit my job or drastically change when I work so as not to need a sitter at all. I work for slightly above minimum wage and cannot afford to pay a sitter. I don't really have anyone else who can watch the kids for me. Maybe I can make a visitation plan for him. Can he have COMPLETE access to him where he can see him whenever HE wants. I also don't know where to find an IM person. He does have an old friend that I would be ok with talking to but I don't think he would agree to anyone. I really don't know where to go from here.

Scotland, I'm on my way to work so this will be quick.
I know what you mean by 'what do I do' meaning you are looking for specific actions to take, I quite often wanted the forum in my side pocket guiding me.

This is from the link that Pep gave, The Art of War.
This is a part of a post on that thread, the last 4 numbers are 4970 of this specific post. It will be helpful to read the whole thing.

For now, I hope it answers your question of the phone conversations.

"Mrs.W and OM would occassionally talk on the phone right in front of me. I occassionally demonstrated reasonable and understandable anger and frustration at such; however, occassionally I did not. Their conversations in front of me were designed by them to be of a "we're just friends" nature so I would join in the banter. I would engage the infidels in a three way conversation to frustrate THEM, to divide THEM. I don't recall anything I actually said. I just was delivering the message to OM that I was there and he was NOT. (remember OM was 750 miles away). OM no longer had unfettered access to my wife."

I agree with OurHouse that you should give the Harley's a ring.
I think that this board is a valuable tool and you have access to this 24/7.
There are many experienced people here.

Go with Pep's plan of keeping up a Plan A, then Plan B.

I understand that you are confused. Breathe and regroup.

p.s. if WH has his own cell phone and he so boldly speaks to OW in front of you,
accidently drop that phone in the dishwater. Oops!
Interrupt his conversations with OW, keep reminding him that he is committing adultery by having a third party in the M, and that this hurtful to his family etc .... get the idea.

ST,

Don't pretend to him that you might be 'dating' too.

You are a believer in marriage and therefore would never consider being unfaithful.

He needs to know this, especially as he he flaunts his A in front of you and your children's faces.

Do your kids understand what's going on? Do they know how very wrong it is for their father to be cheating?

Here's a Do and Don't Do list that will help you out..

DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

Plan A is also a time to negotiate a return to the M WITHOUT the OW. What control do you have over his actions? None. He can do what he wants...to a certain degree. You let him know his behavior is not acceptable in your marriage. He in turn is trying to negotiate a way to have both of you...you let him know this is not acceptable.

How do you do this? With love and respect...sure, he's not showing you love and respect, so how do you show someone love and respect when they are not showing you the same? With maturity, knowledge, and goddessness.

When he comes home and tells you he has spent the day with the OW, you say to him, "I cannot accept a marriage where you have a girlfriend, what would you like for dinner? How else was your day?" Yes, it is hard. You are hurt and in pain. You can do this for the short term. Everytime he pushes the OW in your face, you gently wipe your face off (metaphorically speaking) and let him know there is no place in your M for an OW.
You don't yell, or move to action. You don't give the situation any of your energy except to let him know you will not accept a M with her (or anyone else) in it. He's looking for a fight, an excuse to run back to her and say to her..."My W is horrible, all we ever do is fight..."

The next time he accuses you of running off to another man, do not let that go...let him know you believe in a M between 2 people only, and will not accept any less. Nearly everything he says to you is an opportunity to express your willingness to work on the M when he has gotten rid of the OW.

BUT, do not beat him with it, he knows this, and only needs to be told when he is trying to get you angry again.

Please do not give her any of your energy. She is an annoying fly, a pest, an inconvenience, a distraction from the hard work of M.

And please reconsider a strong Plan A. Please nurture and love your H by allowing him back in your bed. Plan B should be a shock, not a slow death of the M. Yes, Plan A seems counter-intuitive, that's why so many will fall down the Plan D route, but we know otherwise.

How do you know what to do? Look deep in your heart and follow the advice hear that your heart is telling you to follow...

Read all the articles on here until the books arrive, especially the letters. Plan A is KEY. Plan B happens later to save your love, but right now, give as much as you can without losing all your love.

You're going to have to think through all of this...get your ducks in a row before you go to Plan B. You will have to come up w/ a schedule for when he can see the children. And see a lawyer about not allowing him to bring his affair partner around your children.

Most WS HATE Plan B and will do all they can to get you to end it. If he calls you, you let it go to your answering machine. If it is a question about the kids...you take your time replying to him....AND you email him back using as few words as possible...yes or no. If he goes through your IM, you will reply much faster. You train him.

Also, it's more important that YOU trust your IM, than HE does. You need someone who will filter his end of the conversation for you. Just give you the necessary facts minus any ugliness or pain.

Another thought. People on the boards often suggest very convoluted Plan B letters. Why not go with something similar to Dr. Harley's suggestion in "Surviving An Affair"?

I am not pretending that I am dating, I just am not telling him where i go every second like I used to. I am wearing makeup and dressing up just to go to the doctor's. I told him many times that I have never cheated and that I never would. I also told him that I believe in marriage and not divorce.

He thinks that I am going out with other guys when in reality it is nothing of the sort.

My kids totally understand what is going on and that what he is doing is wrong. I have told them that it is wrong and that it hurts a lot of people and that I want them to know that one day when they are married they are not supposed to do this to their family.


OW and WH didn't talk about anything in particular his side being mostly short one worded answers and the kids didn't even notice he was on the phone. I was at work. He hasn't started talking to her n front of me yet but I am expecting that to start soon.

Thanx for the post of the letter it is a good start.

I wanted the kids to have access to him totally by telling him that he could call the house and i would let them call and he could tell them that he was coming to see them. Is that the right thing to do?

Good. You might want to consider getting them cell phones so they can call you whenever they are away from you, and so that their dad can call them directly.



During Plan B, he should no longer have access to the family home. As far as visitation goes, it is best to follow a schedule. That doesn't mean you can't be flexible though.

Don't just "dress up" for going out...look GOOD all the time...especially when he's around.

Buy yourself some pretty new sleepwear too.

Hang in there.

Plan A is hard.
Plan B is hard.

But, be advised , once you reach the RECOVERY stage, recovery is the hardest one yet ! (no one believes this when they are in plan A or B, but that's OK)

My H had a 2 year sexual/romantic affair.
We have been recovered nearly 14 years (December is our D day month)

You will make mistakes.
But you will make fewer mistakes than your WH if you stick to a plan.

For now, in Plan A - be as attractive as possible.

If WH does something outrageous, stick to responses that reflect how HURT you are and avoid all responses that are insulting.

Examples:

YOU are a liar and a cheat.
I'm so hurt by what you are doing right now.

You can't live here and screw OW whenever you want.
Let's do some family time, what is your schedule like?

Are you texting OW right now?
Say nothing. Walk up to him and rub his neck. Put your other hand over the phone. Then say "Not now."

Remember, you can always say:
I'm so hurt by what you are doing right now.
and this remark is not a love buster

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Preparing for Plan B all the while.

Things to think about.
Contact an attorney. Get a free consultation if possible.
Find out what your legal recourses are in your state regarding support if you separate.
Do NOT file for divorce unless you want to be divorced.

Finances must be secured BEFORE plan B.
If you can, get your own credit card, so the paper trail of money he spends vs money you spend is clear and traceable.

Very important you begin a daily journal.
Put dates times places of anything that happens.
Who
What
Where
What time
And put certain remarks in quotes, such as:
H said he would "keep making car payments" once he moved out.
Do not "vent feelings" in your journal (vent here on MB)

There is more to prep, but start with these basics.

Part of Plan A is to look good.
So do whatever you can to make yourself delicious.
Rest
Relax
Have as much fun time with the kids as possible - all under WH's nose.

If you are tempted with the verbal diarrhea, remove yourself and go for a walk or do something outside of your WH's view.

Plan A will exhaust you - which is why it must be for a limited period of time.
Remember this is a strategy - temporary and NOT forever, so keep that in mind when your "taker" wants to kick some butt and stop your "giver" from doing a stellar plan A.

I'm going to be out of town for a few days.
I wish you strength and wisdom.

Thank you. I have just been getting our IM in place so I am one step closer.

Thanx for the examples of what to say because my Taker seems to have my tongue right now and my Giver doesn't know what to say so this will help. I think I have been using my Taker for a long time and forgot where to find my Giver.

He told me that when he first moves out we will keep the finances the same. Should I separate them? I will get my own bank account and try to get my own Credit card (bad credit). I need to get bills in my name too and change the mortgage to the new account although I cannot afford to have it just on my own. My mortgage is actually less than a rental would be so I am desperately trying to keep it.

We have a mortgage life Insurance so that if one of us dies the house would be paid for so I thought I could keep his name on the house for those reasons.

Next Step, talk to a lawyer and find out my rights.

I'm not sure you have to completely separate your finances in a Plan B. In fact, the only things you should be hearing about from your IM should be about the kids or finances. A good IM will NOT pass along what WH is thinking, feeling, etc. Plan B is to shield you from all of that. Set up a joint account for all your bills; have WH deposit $$$ to cover housing, food, kids, etc, in there.

Ask him back into the bedroom. Giving him a foretaste of Plan B isn't in your best interests. If he asks you for an explanation, reverse babble. He doesn't make sense - why should you? "I really missed having you in the room, and I'm looking forward to when we can be a real family again." (Said with a bright smile.)

You can meet some of his needs for SF without actually doing the deed. Send him flirty texts or emails, let him know how attractive he is to you. Maybe he can catch a little peek of skin every now and again. All those things are part of meeting the SF need, while packing in the Admiration units, too.

As you think about the babysitting situation, pretend you are divorced and living in separate houses. You don't want him in your house at all. What will divorce look like, in reality? This is what you want to resemble, as closely as possible.

Your boys are old enough to walk out to the car - just have them ready to go when he gets there and send them out the door.

That would be a better first option, and looking for a sitter or quitting your job are further down the list.

This is just my own opinion, but I wouldn't worry about getting all the utilities in your name yet. If he left and a month or two went by, that would probably be a better time for a more drastic change. Plus, if you split the utilities ahead of time, it could tip your hand. Just have everything ready so you can do that if you need to.


Get your own bank account at the very minimum. A credit card is optional; you can totally survive without it.

Calling the Harleys is a great idea. Why not at least call the counseling office and see if they have any financial options that would fit your circumstances?

Prepare for Plan B, but focus on Plan A. What can you do today to show what an awesome wife you are? What can you appreciate about your WH? Reach as far back into the past as you need to.

What do you think his top 3 needs are? Hint: they are very likely to include SF, Admiration, and Domestic Support. How can you show him that you're going to be able to meet those needs for him?

If you run short on ideas, pop back on here and we can help.

Have a very specific visitation schedule when you get to Plan B.
So figure out what you have to with your job. If it works for him to watch them during your evening hours -- where can he do that (not at HOME).

When you talk to the attorney -- find out if you are able to keep OW away from your children. Could you file a restraining order against her based on her comments?

When he is out, he will not be allowed to come and go on a whim. No dropping by, no unscheduled visits, no access to the HOME.

For the next 3 weeks -- be the girl he fell in love with. Flirt with him, court him.

Okay. I am going to do these things ASAP.

Everyone keeps talking about reverse babble and I was wondering if someone has the link to that?

I never thought about the text and emails(DUH). I did buy myself a new PJ and it shows off my ASSETS and he actually said "Is there some reason you are flashing our children?" and my response was "What? Oh, it is just hot in here."

As far as his top 3 EN's I do think they are SF Domestic support and as long as me thinking he is funny, then admiration.

So it ok to tell him that I find him attractive and stuff like that?

Every few days I kissed him on the check before I went to bed but a couple of times he pulled away. Should it be overt like that or should I be more subtle? I was just so used to being one way that when he withdrew I did too and now I don't know what will push him away faster and what will keep him guessing.

Lexxy- should the visitation schedule be written in the Plan B letter since I will have no further contact with him?

What I recommend is having one or more Plan B addendums with the additional information laid out clearly. That way he gets the info, but it doesn't clutter up your letter.

sounds great