Really wished my FWW would be more transparent, for starters. You guys know my story and how the actual A's were 21 years ago but Dday was 3 months ago. I wished when I brought up the A's she would talk to me, without HER getting upset. She seems to only be worried that talking about the A's upsets HER. When I bring up my paternity concerns and inform her that if I had a better idea of dates it would help. She says she doesn't remember the dates of her A's, only they were around '88.

Triggers, thats a biggy for me. She says she will work on trying to understand how and why they bother me.

I forget what you guys call it, but it is I that is doing all of the grunt work here. I am the one that joins web sites...I am the one that reads the books, the articles...I am the one that buys CD's and take surveys and tests.

I am the one that got us into IC and MC...etc, etc. I don't understand this.

I did schedule another MC as the MC called me and explained that she didn't intend for me to think she was saying my wife's emotional state gave her the right to do her A's. She says her job isn't to say what is right or wrong, we all know what is right or wrong, (ideally, yes), but her job is to get us to understand each others feelings and to communicate better.

I dunno, I just wished she would put more of an effort to help me out emotionally and stop worrying about her own emotions for once.

Am I being a [censored]?

not at all.

she just doesn't want to face the reality of the horrible, disgusting thing she did to you and your family.

it's easier for her to just pretend it never happened, or that since it was so long ago it really doesn't matter now.

No. Your wife is the [censored]. And, she does not even have the excuse of being in affair fog(whatever that is).
She's a slacker and does not show remorse or any appreciation of the trauma she caused.
I imagine it is hard to love and respect someone demonstrating these qualities.

I am really sorry about what you are experiencing right now.

Your WW doesn't want to talk about it probably because in her mind, it happened so long ago and she doesn't want to re-hash things. How did you just now find out about this?

If there is any question in your mind about the children, I would certainly have a paternity test...and or, tell her that if she isn't willing to talk to you about this that you would like to have a polygraph.
Your counselor obviously doesn't know what they are talking about. You may want to consider counseling with Dr. Harley? Do you have SAA to read or maybe plan a MB weekend?
She has got to come clean first and foremost and she must understand that until she does this your R can not truly begin.

If you insist on staying with her, I think she is a prime candidate for a polygraph test. I'd bet that at least one of the following is true:

1. There were more affairs.

2. They were spread out over more time.

3. At least some of them were much more recent.

She went on some kind of "affair rampage" in 1988 then completely stopped afterwards? Doubtful.

BTW, it is completely untrue that your wife cannot remember the dates. Anyone with half a brain would be able to remember the time of year, probably the months, they were having sex with someone other than their spouse. Something is up with paternity, IMO, based on her fudging on the dates.

I wouldn't worry about paternity at this point. It really makes no difference, and you don't wanna know, even if you think you do.

You are not being a [censored]. Dday is new to you so the betrayal is new. Your WW lied/deceived you for 20+ yrs. Most people would have a hard time digesting that so don't let anyone tell you to "get over it" because it's in the past. Your MC's comment also disturbs me.


Adultery is wrong period. Deceiving your spouse is wrong period. Makes me wonder what sort of psychobabble your MC is spewing your way. MC often do more damage than good simply because they are clueless themselves. Be careful.

I do agree with the MC, though. It's not her job, because only a total dumbarse doesn't already know adultery and dishonesty are wrong. What's next? The MC has to wipe butts, too?

She does show me love and I know she loves me, its just she has a very hard time dealing with the A's. As I may have said, her personality is kind of angry, controlling, and she loves to micro-manage. She never admits to being wrong, this is very very difficult for her to do, she HATES to do so. She never says sorry, (except for now, she does say she is sorry for what she did, and she means it I think). We both do not communicate well, but I am trying to improve mine through IC and from self analyzing.

While she was on vacation, our house was run soooo smoothly, no yelling or anything of the sort. I have two girls that still live at home, 20 and 25..and a 28 yr old that is married. They all will say and agree their mother has anger issues and all she does is yell. She yell because nobody listens to her and they don't listen because she has no communication skills. I have been trying to help her since she's come back, but she pushes away and takes it as me saying how great I am...WTF?

My kids have told my wife that while she was gone tere was ZERO yelling. The house had ZERO negative energy. The house was spotless and I got them to do it by treating them as adults, not trying to MAKE them do something...I changed my communicating skills and applied it to them, and it worked great. They have been micro-managed by their mom for their entire lives. I did nothing but watched, for the most part. It worked when they were 7, but when they became young adults they will not stand for being pushed around, especially if its wrong.

I am trying to help my wife with connecting with her kids, as adult to adult, its different now. They look at their mom and wonder how she could've done what she did. They remember their childhood and they say they don't recall me being a bad dad at all, I was a loving, warm dad, ALWAYS home, and playing with them.

I dunno, she is in denial to a degree yes. She doesn't understand the trauma I am in, yes. Half the time when its brought up, she only says how much pain she was in back then....she deflects and blameshifts.

We have a long road ahead, but neither of us want divorce.

I agree with Krazy. It is very unlikely that you know anywhere near the entire story. Any person that would do 5 guys in 1988, does not suddenly change and start walking the staight and narrow. I mean, we are talikg 5 different guys, right? Think about it. Do you think you know the entire story?

I agree that that MC has to go. The PC movement seems to have taken over counseling as well. If something is wrong - like adultery - there is nothing wrong with an MC saying so. In fact, bost people who study behavior and such will tell you that unless your WW takes full responsibility, she will not change. Even my psych told me that my A was damaging and wrong.

She needs to tell you every single thing you want to know. Granted, my A was only a little over 3 years ago, but I still remember the dates of certain activities - ick. I am not a good judge of the paternity issue because I know for a fact that I am not biologically realted to either of my parents - I am adopted. So I confess I have a tender spot on those issues.

I am just sorry that you are having to go through this and that she doesn't seem to be helping you any.

I really appreciate all of the advise and help from you guys. I know, I know, 5 guys during a brief time in '88 and none before or after? I did want to believe what she said for the past 21 years, and it was a lie, so why would anything else she told me be the truth suddenly, I know.

The guy who originally 'broke' the story told me he ended it with her when he found out she was cheating on HIM..!! No freaken kidding. My wife was screwing around on me with some other guy, then screwing around on him with another guy..!! I brought this up to my wife and she denied it, believe it or not, lol. She said he is lying and trying to break up our marriage. I tried to remind her that it was I that approached him and it was he that admitted to it the first time I asked him....he didn't lie for 21 years to me. I said he has no reason to lie, his memory may be a bit off, but I can't see why he would lie, he has no reason to....but you???? humm.

I don't understand why she pushes back when I ask of the A's. I mean I understand why its uncomfortable for her, but she needs to not worry about herself being uncomfortable, and worry about me.....thats what I feel. She is totally not transparent and while she seems remorseful, she is not very helpful at times.

At times she seems to say things that hurt me and she doesn't understand. I feel I am not the most important thing in her life. From going on vacation about a month post Dday and not even offering to postpone vacation for a time, you know, until I come back from the ledge.....to me asking her to join this forum to maybe try and understand a bit more and her saying she is very busy with paying her bills and other things.....to how we took the 5 love languages survey and one of the most important things to me is positive affirmation, (you know, me being insecure and everything about her picking 5 guys to have sex with over me in the past), and her saying how its hard for her to remember to say things to me as its not in her nature and how she has to think about it, and forgets, (not to mention she still has not even listened to the 5 love languages book on CD)......to how she cried last sunday in church and I just assumed it was about our marriage, but to find out today it was really over her family back home. When I said, what about me, I thought it was me, she said, uhh, yea, you too, (something like that).

Again, I know she loves me, but she really is missing what is going on it seems. I don't know what to do.

Codtej,

First, realize, that there is NOTHING you can do to MAKE her change, say or do ANYTHING. You have NO CONTROL over another person. You can only change yourself.

My story didn't start out but after WH and I began to talk I found out he has been cheating on me for our WHOLE marriage. With MANY different people. The last one, well let's just say that went farther and more destructive and nuclear than any of the other ones.

I'm so sorry you find yourself here, but when I found out it was like a freedom I had not experienced since D-day happened. For you, d-day is just around the bend. The emotions are so raw and the pain and shock very intense. Liken it to a trauma that you just simply don't get over.

I'm not saying that she doesn't OWE you the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth, but you CAN'T make her do it. However you CAN set boundaries and decide what you need for you to heal, move forward and recover your marriage. If she is willing then I believe you can hold EACH OTHER accountable to the actions. If she isn't willing, then it's up to you to decide what you need, what you want and what you are willing to settle or accept.

I can tell you from my experience, there are times when H is more open than other times, why I'm not sure. He has always given me the most information he can, but then after awhile he does get defensive or wants to drop it. I have come to believe it's because he is so disgusted in what he did and he doesn't have the skills or strategy to walk through the pain of his actions. However, the dates. That is a sticking point for me, because he has pieces to the puzzle and I need those pieces. He tries, but he just doesn't get there. Maybe one day after more healing has taken place and the pain isn't so raw.

As for the kids. I really offer MHO, STAY OUT of HER relationshiop with the children. They aren't kids, they are young people who have their own journey's in life. What happened between them is theirs to fix NOT YOURS.....

You can pray for her, you can come here and vent all you want and need and you can walk in FAITH and TRUST that G-d is working in her now that the bomb has been detinated. However, it's a SLOW process and it's not your timing.

This is what you CAN do. Leave it to G-d to work out. Gather the information from so many on here, try to call Dr. Harley and have a phone session, I did twice and it helped immensely. He'll see and hear things you won't even begin to understand. And then, keep coming back because we care and are here for you.

I don't know how you have reached the conclusion that this woman loves you. All her actions say otherwise.
She is an isensitive, lying, unremorseful person and I doubt she loves anyone but herself.

Well I know she loves me, but it may not look like that to you guys...you have to remember I am telling you things that she does throughout the day, but she is not only the bad, she has good points.

Yes Zelmo, I wished she was more sensitive to my needs at this time, but other times she is. She has lied in the past,yes, and is probably lying now, yes. I too have lied during our marriage, but not to her degree. She is remorseful but she should probably be more worried about my feelings over the A's that her ownself. When I hear her say how talking about the A's upsets her, I try and remind her that maybe I should be a bigger focal point for her, at this time.

I keep working it, and it seems like I am doing a lot of the work here. I suppose if I didn't then it would just die a silent death, and that would be ok for her I am sure.

Man, you are contradicting yourself on this loving you deal. I know you are in pain and I will butt out. I just think she is a player.

Codtej, as much as it bothers you to do so, you should heed Zelmo. His perspectives all too often cut like a knife. It can be painful, but if you've got a cancer, don't you want to cut it out?

It may be that he isn't correct. But you at least have to weigh his opinion just because he tends to be scarily on target.

Dude, she's been seriously lying to you for over a decade! Do you think that's going to come to a stop all of a sudden? I'll bet that she likely now seriously regrets ever telling you about those As because the facade she created and maintained between the two of you, the one that blocked you from seeing what she REALLY is like, is now falling apart.

If you're looking for the truth of what your M has really been like, you're probably not going to find it in a hurry from her. She likely wants all of this to go away in a hurry so she can get back to rebuilding that facade.

1. Contact the OMs that you know about. See what they have to say about what happened.

2. Get the DNA tests done.

3. Seriously consider polygraphing her if there are further questions that she refuses to answer in a manner that leaves you believing that she is finally telling the truth.

4. Start planning your exit strategy. You need to make it VERY clear that you are fully prepared to exit the M if things do not change. Because, guess what - if you don't do this, things likely WILL NOT CHANGE.

Zelmo, no brother do not butt out, I look forward to hearing the truth from you or anyone and appreciate it....I am conflicted, thats prolly the best way for me to say it?

Trust me I do weigh all of the posts and also I get help from others threads as well We all have experienced the same thing, to a varying degree. Some are brand new at this pain, for some its old hat....we all have been in each others shoes.

I APPRECIATE your help Zelmo...!

Thanks Fred, as before, thanks.