It seems to me that so many of the betrayers find their OW/OM in their workplaces. Obviously the reasons are a lot of time is spent together leading to a closeness with colleagues, bosses, etc. This is then used to "justify" the betrayers actions that the betrayed just did not measure up any more.<P>What do you think should be done in todays working environment to try to prevent these relationships from occurring and when they do, what do you think companies should do?<P>Obviously consenting illicit sexual relationships must have an impact on worker performance at every level and also impact negatively with other relationships within the companies.<P>ANY IDEAS??????

My father used to work for Amway amny years ago. Amway was founded by two guys - Rich DeVos and Jay VanAndel who are VERY conservative and very religious. Although I'm not positive, I believe that there is/was a policy there that allows the company to fire individuals who are proven to be engaging in immoral behavior. The company is owned entirely by these two guys and their families so there is no question as to whether it can be done.<P>I say institute this policy everywhere. We must get this country back to where at least the general consensus is that adultery is WRONG - are you listening Klinton?

I think the problem is with the "person" not the job. Its not an employers place to make sure people don't have affairs ... its up to each individual to have strong morals. Policies at the workplace will NOT stop people from having affairs at work. Work is the most easiest place to meet people as one is there so many hours out of the day ... but the problem lies within the person, not the employer. If employers did initiate a policy as such, people would find sneaky ways to have affairs .. or other places. You can't run from the reality of whats happening here. Infidelity is an individual choice.

Shattered1, I know how upset you are, but do you really think that a President's behavior has any impact on what people do? I'm sure you hate Clinton for other reasons, but it seems to me that adultery predates Clinton's presidency by some thousands of years.<P>Throughout the history of Western civilization, adultery has been regarded as wrong...yet it's gone on since time immemorial. The Church couldn't stop it, governments couldn't stop it. They couldn't then; they can't now.<P>Despite what you think Clinton's "gotten away with", there is NOT an acceptance of adultery in this country. What there is, is a notion that there is a difference between private and public behavior, and a belief (rightfully so) that what happens in the Clinton marriage is between the Clintons, and is none of our business.<P>It would be wonderful if public figures behaved in an exemplary manner, but they never have. Powerful men have always committed adultery...we just didn't hear about it. Some are better at covering their tracks than others. FDR had a long-term affair. Eisenhower had a long-term affair. Kennedy was a Clintonesque sex addict. Johnson had a long-term affair. George Bush is rumored to have had one. And of course, we all now know about "family values" champion Newt Gingrich.<P>One problem we as a society have is the romantic notion that passion = love. Men have this as well as women. That's why people seek to escape the humdrum everyday-ness of marriage in passionate affairs. (Are you listening, Hummingbird?)<P>Another problem we have is that girls and boys are still reared differently in regard to sex. Men are still reared to believe that monogamy is unnatural, that they are judged on their ability to "score", that sexual restraint is somehow "sissy." Women, OTOH, while reared to be sexually restrained, are weaned on romantic stories and fairy tales, which tell them that it's beyond their control, that they get "swept away."<P>These silly notions come into play when people become attracted to each other.<P>When we're married, we don't become sexless. The expression, "I'm married; not dead" is absolutely true. It's how we ACT on those attractions that counts.<P>I'm not convinced that sexual restraint was ever universal in Western Civilization...it's just that prior to the advent of mass media (newspapers, magazines, radio, TV, and now Internet), we didn't hear about it.<P>I think it's an oversimplification to blame infidelity on Clinton, no matter what you may think about him personally or politically.

D&C - I don't have a lot of time to respond to your post. However, I do feel that I need to defend myself.<P>Yes, unfortunately I have reached a stage in this affair (no pun intended) where I fear that I am becoming bitter and resentful. I am not a bitter and resentful person! These feelings are extremely foreign to me. It is precisely these feelings that prevent me from posting here much anymore...I am not a negative person. I want to love and be loved.<P>As far as Clinton - no I realize that he is not responsible for infidelity. I also understand that many, many, many people from all political persuasions have fallen inthe othe infidelity trap. This is not an indictment of any particular political party. However, I do believe that his reckless behavior that centered on his serial infidelity was given a pass by so many groups and individuals (NOW and Hollywood for example). This, in my opinion, has lowered the morality bar. I know of a high school student who was questioned why he lied to his teacher about something whose reply was ..."hey, President Clinton got away with it..." Is that what we want to become? I'm sorry D&C, but the President and all individuals in public office MUST exhibit a higher moral standard otherwise we will be faced with a generation that doesn't care.<P>By the way, Clinton was impeached essentially lying and obstructing justice in a bonafide civil suit brought against him by a civilian...not because of his infidelity. The public was duped into believing that this was a case of the private vs public behavior. I for one don't feel that getting a little noggin in the Oval Office is private behavior - especially while carrying on government business on the phone. That's just my opinion however.<P>I didn't want to turn this into a political thread - I'm just a little sensitive to the Clinton thing because through the entire ordeal my W was absolutely disgusted by what he was doing. 4 months later, she's doing it herself.

Shattered1<BR>I quite agree, the head honchos often set the tone and it filters down from there<BR>cndy<BR>yes it is the individual choice, (not co. policy!!!!), but if workplaces had guidelines as they do for sexual harrassment, equal opportunity, then why do they not consider taking a moral stand as well.<BR>One of the things that is a contributing factor is the "company functions" where significant others are usually not included and in the past, women were not as accessible at these as far fewer women were at the level in the organizations where these socialization/ co. functions occur, there was less opportuniy....one had to more actively go out and search for it. Today with nearly an equal # of M vs F in the workforce at all levels, opportunity is greater and easier. Infedility should be looked at in terms of loss of productivity and scarring harmonious relations in the workplace.<BR>Dazed and Confused:<BR>Yes, Clinton's affair is not the world's business except that it did intefere with his ability to govern(time consuming court stuff for him as well as having to deal with this instead of the Nations business)....and this is what I meant earlier by inteferring with work.<P>It is the nation's business when it causes so much publicity and "lost time"...and is the media therefore to blame? In smaller workplaces the gossip mill will take the place of the media and the emotional angst by the couple would surely intefere as well as "stolen moments" <P>I am not an American but when we watched the circus on tv my H expounded about the morality etc of it while he was in the same position!!!!<P>At his (H) work place he was not the only one...H (Pres), VP -Finance as well as VP- Management were all going at it.....as well as a couple of investors. Some tone H set for his staff!!!!!! (small, very successful co.)

This is a subject that strikes close to my heart. Myself, my cheating husband, and the other woman all work in the same place. Talk about frickin' complicated!!!!!!<P>My H was the OW's supervisor when the affair started. When it was discovered and became common knowlege, H ended the affair in order to try and save our marriage. He was not in love with her (I'll affectionately call her The Vampire), but she believed she was in love with him. H's boss told H that he wanted to fire him, because of the supervisor/employee thing. Instead, H got shifted to an evening shift, so he and The Vampire don't work together anymore. Had they shifted The Vampire, she could have successfully sued the company for sexual harrassment. Luckily, my job is flexible enough, so I'm now working nights, and that way we can be together, work on our marriage, and I almost never have to see The Vampire.<P>To make a short story incredibly long, if they had fired my husband over this, then our financial stability would have been devastated. They would have been punishing me as well as him. I don't believe that any "official" policy would have prevented H from having the affair.

Dazed and Confused,<BR>I think there is a certain degree of acceptance of infidelity in this country. There certainly is in my state, and in other states that also have no fault divorce and do not allow you to sue for alienation of affection. Adultery makes no difference in asset division, in visitation - there are absolutely no negative consequences to adultery, legally speaking.

Nellie1:<P>Actually, in some states, Adultery is still on the books as a criminal act. Although you're right that alienation of affection has largely disappeared, several southern states (usually Bible Belt) still have criminal prosecutions available for adulterors. Can't say I've ever heard of it being enforced, but the laws are still on the books.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Responding just to the title of your thread -<P>OH, I DON'T THINK SO!!! (LOL)<P>I have even (gasp!) seen it in action, on numerous occasions!<P>--Wex

AHHH!! This is the place where it all happened with my h. Unbelievable he had affairs with 3 women who all worked together in the same department at different times. Talk about a soap opera. When one was left for the other it was world war three. I really don't know how he did that. Think about it, all the tension , and he did it 2 more times with different girls. <P>He even made out with 2 girls( at different times ) and they were "all over each other" inside the building,DURING WORK HOURS. How stupid are you? We could have lost everything as we already were having severe money troubles. The night he confessed was brought about because one of the girls in the room was discussing this encounter when a supervisor caught wind of it. One of his former girlfriends (UGGG) called to let him know and he might be in trouble for it the following day. He had transfered from that place in the spring.<P>He hasn't got into trouble at work yet and I don't think he will, he is actually preparing to find a new career. (how about the monestary) Anyway he told me the other girls were real jealous and made his life misrable there for a while. I can't imagine the way it must have been. I get enraged that they were jealous, hey guys, he's married hello. This really proves that they live in some fantasy world. <P>Most of his acts happened during lunch at a nearby park, about 2 miles away near a store where co workers went all the time. He was begging to get caught. He did it in broad daylight in vehicles. I think so many people must have known about this activity. <BR>He really made an [censored] out of himself. <P>Anyway after I found out he also told me one girl was getting transfered there soon. He was advised by our pastor to go to the administration and explain the situation and ask for a transfer. His boss was very understanding (he probably was a cheater himself)anyhow, he made it so they wouldn't work together in the same place. I asked him if he gave him the list of the other 4 girls too! (I can't help myself sometimes)<P>He said all this activity stopped a few months prior to his transfer and he was hoping to get his life together. Only one problem, he tried to do it holding onto the secret.<P>Anyway work affairs are difficult in that they have to go to work each day. I honestly don't know how some of you deal with it when they still are working together.<BR>I feel bad you are in this situation.<P>If we could retire rich on a tropical island alone, then maybe there would be a chance that this wouldn't happen again. Who knows though, he could always build a raft. I just know there are no guarentees. ( it would be nice if I could spell.) So i just have to learn to deal. The hard part.

Nellie1:<BR>This is hard for me too. Where I live I can get a divorce on the grounds of adultery quickly.(Otherwise one has to be separated for 12 months) My issue is the no fault clause...other than a quicker divorce, the no-fault rule still applies in terms of settlement. <BR>Even though I am "the betrayed" and my H makes excellent money, I can still end up having to give him my money due to"equalization" as I came into money some time ago. This is what makes me so angry now. Where is justice?<BR>He took it all , my best friend, my soulmate, my resources to try to make it work until I nearly drowned emotionally and now he wants what should be mine financially so that he can be a "big shot" with his OW. <P>He still does not really want the kids, except for "good times"<P>He is now trying to get the kids to see him (individually) during "my weekends" This is where I try to get all done that I would have been able to space out normally, but nothing can "get done " in terms of childrens chores on his weekends. It would be nice if there was also time for some quality time with the kids... and this I try to do on my weekend. Of course he does not ask me, but asks my Daughter, who gets stuck in the middle and I despise him for this. What an A***** he has become.<P>wexwill<BR>You are right, I should have posted Adultery in the workplace using exclamation marks, not question marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<p>[This message has been edited by willbok99 (edited October 21, 1999).]

Oh yeah, this one hits home for me in a big way.<BR> My H had his affair in the workplace with a ugly little slu...<BR> He was the manager of the store and she worked in one of the departments, in the same company I work for, but in a differant store.<BR> His affair was short and had very little contact, but she decided she wanted to keep him, so when he broke it off with her and went to his boss to ask for a transfer, he was fired.<BR> He had been with the company for 20 years in very good standing and made alot of money, and she was left completely alone with no punishment at all even though this is not the first time she has done this.<BR> In working for this company myself for 21 years I have seen alot of cases and no one has ever been fired before.<BR> I not only was faced with the affair, but working for the same company with this woman and her mouth, but my husband was unemployed for 6 months and then took a lower paying job.<BR> Yes our company has a policy on affairs, but it happens all the time and I feel if he was fired, she should have been fired also.

willbok99,<BR> Our problems started after my W of 21 years got transferred to a new location as a dispatch supervisor on an afternoon shift.Not only did'nt we see each other during the week,but in the evenings,she was the only woman in the office with male drivers parading in and out.Basically,an affair waiting to happen.One of them took a shine to her,a young divorced man who's ex cheated on him.He apparently read all these relationship books,and began preaching to my W what was wrong with our marriage,and,I guess,what was wrong with me.You can fiqure out the rest.I work for a very large company where affairs are a dime a dozen,and I tried to explain to her that this relationship wasn't real.But it was too late.I think he somewhat brain-washed her with all his psychological"You've lost your identity,and your too co-dependant"talk.But my feeling on office affairs is this:no matter how well you treat your spouse,there'll always be someone else(man or woman)who'll think they can do a better job.The sad thing is,they're trying to take someone that isn't their's to take.It is so easy to put your best foot forward at the office,and look like the wonderful prince,or princess,that will always look better than the spouse.That coupled with the closeness,the pressures at work,the"you and me against the company" mentality,and the hours away from the spouse,will always result in even more"office affairs".Sad,isn't it? --Murph

<BR> Our company has a code of conduct.My daddy<BR> got tired of alot of things in the company going on like affairs and fights etc. It took<BR> about 7 months for his attorney to come up with the right wording but we all got a copy<BR> and it had to be signed and put in our employee file.We have had two people fired from it since we got it in january.At first, they didnt seem to take it seriously but after the two ,and they were both long term,<BR> after they were fired,everybody seemed to<BR> get the message.At least its not going on at work and if we can prevent it or slow it<BR> down ,that might help.

Dear Wilbok99:<BR>This has happenned to me and so I posted, "What I did to the ow". Basically I called her at her job. It's a long story, but, it explains about the system of employment. It definetly worked out to my favor. It's a big company that she worked for. I did what I had to do. Whether members agree or not, I'm not sorry for it. Most big corporations are interested in their workers working hard for them, therefore, if their employees are having an affair, that is not their problem. BUT, if the employees affair is being done on the job, such as hours of phone calls, tons of e-mails, that are performed during work hours, the company does not like that too much. A big corporation can pull up ALL the emails that the betrayer has written and even the deleted ones. They can also pull up all the phone records. Now, if the affair is happening within the company, and the company is strick on that type of activity, then they can enforce policies of not dating anyone at work. Supervisors I think, have to be on top of what their employees are really doing. They need to be more alert as to what their employees are doing during teh working hours. Are they on the phone alot??? If so, to who. etc... Now, for smaller companies, they just can't be bothered with any of that since they are just that..a small company. They can't be bothered and can care less about who is sleeping with who. Plus, they don't have the equipment like big corporations to go into employees emails and check phone bills. It's not worth their time and effort since they have to worry about building their business. The corporations have their business built, but worry about employees keeping up with the commands of the job. So, it all depends on what kind of company your wife works for. Has she been seeing this om? For how long? Do they work in the smae department? <BR>I guess that companies are not family oriented for teh most part and will not get involved with something like that, since, really, it's none of their business unless it effects productivity in the workplace, if the affair effects the job performance of that individual. I know how you feel.

Murph:<BR>I quite agree that affairs in the workplcae will increase. Perhaps that is why so many of us are on this board. I wonder what % of us are posting due to a work related affair (vs an affair which involved people away from work.) I think that this would make an interesting statistic!<BR>Clinton's obviosly is in my opinion , work related<BR>CutieP:<BR>Glad that some are taking a stand...can only be good for morale anyway. While affairs will and do occur in the work place, at least here there are consequences, so this has to be thought about. If so me betrayers thought about the consequences of their actions, I think there would be somewhat fewer affairs, because once started it is as Harley states, an addiction.<BR>Katya:<BR>My H is the betrayer, I am the wife. He took up with his 26 year old secretary (he is 46)..and the rest is history. Once "discovery" and he told me it was over (big fat lie) he suggested that he had "so much work to catch up" but being the president, and the co. was doing well anyway, no one cared.<BR>But he set the moral tone which filtered down to 1 other inter office affairs and another where the affair was wioth someone outside the firm, but work related. There are fewer than 20 employees!!! and 5 were involved in sc***** around.