Sailor, <P>Haven't heard from you in a while. I read your short note on a thread but I was just wondering how your situation is going.<P>Are you OK?<P>SHA

SHA<BR>Thanks for caring. I almost missed this by only scanning the first page of new posts. You must have seen my comments on your prose - again, well done. I’m really kind of down - much of my own doing though. I have had a kidney stone for about 3 weeks and it has been a real ordeal starting with the surgery last Tuesday night (8 days ago). I still have the stone but am over most of the pain. If you were wondering, yes, I’d rather have the physical pain of one of these than the emotional pain I continue to endure over my W and her indecision. Also, my mother is visiting from the Midwest (since last Saturday and leaves tomorrow). This is always difficult as she is very hard to get along with (some of that has rubbed off onto me?). <P>In the last two weeks, W has become almost robot like. Has a smile on her face all the time. I feel like a customer in a store with W as a sales person who is cordial and polite. I feel any affection I give is being given to a mannequin. Last week I asked her if OM had contacted her since his W had contacted my W the week before. She said he had. Then, without me needing to say a thing, she acknowledged she had broken her promise to come to me and tell me if he had contacted her. This was a downer knowing 1. She "lied", 2. She had contact, and 3. Withdrawal will continue to be difficult as long as contact continues. On the up side, he initiated it and it was a call to find out what his W had said to mine and to find out how my W felt about her visit etc. It was not a call designed to advance or continue the affair. So I’m not too upset about it. Until two nights ago, I have been having greater feelings of hopelessness.<P>Two nights ago, I told W we had to talk. She had talked to our Pastor two days before and finding out what was said etc. was like playing cat and mouse for the two days following. Basically she told me she was very discouraged with my behavior since 7/1. I have been very down and discouraged. This has come out in anger, pouting, demanding her attention, etc. I have been guilty of some pretty major love busting. I have done a lot of reading and she knows I have been working hard at this but she has been skeptical all along. She saw some improvement but I have been sliding which she sees as bearing out her skepticism. She said she is feeling she needs to separate - for her, for the kids, and for us. We talked about this for a while and I finally told her I felt that was the only answer too. I felt that as long as she was being so uncommitted, uncommunicating, and unemotional, I simply could not be strong enough to hold in my anger etc. But I agreed with her that whether she left or not, I was wrong about my behavior and I promised to work on it very hard. She basically said she really didn’t want to leave - she wants to continue with a couple ongoing efforts (reading Harley’s SAA, call him again, etc. before giving up). Well, in the last two days, her attitude has changed pretty significantly in the positive direction. I have been on my best behavior and I know this is helping her. We are both doing a satisfactory job of meeting needs right now.<P>So what next? I think things are slowing down some for me. I need to work very very hard on limiting love busting. My W is right about this. This is hurting our chances for a good marriage more than the affair right now. I hope you (and others?) can offer me some tips/techniques at controlling myself. I may initiate a couple posts related to this in the next day or two. I ask you though because I feel you are the master of behavior change and turning yourself into the picture of a H. Thanks SHA.<BR>Ron<BR>

Ron, <P>I very much appreciate your compliments. I sorry for the physical pain you have endured. I also agree with your comment in regards to the emotional pain - I, too, would take physical pain over that any day.<P>I can give you a little insight as to how I got where I am. For years, my W tried to change me. She was very displeased with who I became. I was very self absorbed. We looked like a model couple/family. We went to church, we put on heirs of happiness, we helped the kids in their activities, etc. Somewhere along the road we drifted a part. We stopped having sex. It became so infrequent that both of us were uncomfortable initiating anything. She gave up talking to me. I was very uncaring in anything she had to say. She would ask me to do things I ignored her. I felt they were unreasonable and she could do them her self. I spent more time at work because home was not a sanctuary. We still went out to dinner every once in awhile, and we literally sat and looked off into space. Nothing to say to each other. Well, December 5, 1998 e went out to dinner. I sensed something was wrong with her. She didn't want to talk but I pushed and boy did she let me have it. Years of neglect came pouring out. So many hurtful comments that I became numb. I couldn't believe it. What had I done to this woman I promised to love, honor, and cherish? Who had I become? I did all of the wrong things to win her back at first. Two months later, I found out she was involved with OM. My God, I thought I was in a nightmare. I honestly could not handle what was happening. My life was crashing in on me and I had no one to go to, I have never been so alone in my life. I looked at my W and for the first time I realized I really don't know her anymore. Our conversations were maybe 1-2 minutes in length. The only time we touched was accidentally running into one another in the hallway. It was sad. I was ashamed of what I let happen.<P>What I am trying to say is that I got to the point where I realized I didn't like me anymore. That is what helped me change. Specifically, I read all I could get my hands on concerning marriage. I prayed like never before. I focused on spiritual warfare prayers to help release me of the pain I was going through. I have never shed so many tears in my life. I took time for myself. i lost weight. I swim. I got me some new clothes (lost a lot of weight). I developed a plan. I later realized it was what MB calls Plan A. <P>I set out to start talking to my W. It was hard for me. To actually sit and focus my attention on her was tough. At first, it was like interviewing someone who didn't want the job. But I kept at it. I wanted to know what she was doing, what she was thinking, and what she was feeling. One book identified a formula called BEST. Bless, Edify, Share, and Touch. So, I gave compliments, I supported her in her activities, I talked to her all I could, and I tried touching her again. I gave hair rubs, and back rubs, and foot rubs. Everything I did was met with resentment and anger. But, I keep trying. Over time - a very big thing happened. I fell in love with my wife again. All the giving I had done attracted me to her even more. Giving became easier. I couldn't wait to talk to her. I couldn't wait to see her again. It's a great feeling. But, it also hurts to know those feelings aren't mutual. I hope that some day they will be.<P>Ron, quitting the love busting is essential. If at all possible, you have to put your feelings and needs and hurts on the shelf for a while. Your W is not going to want to meet any of your needs right now. Any she does meet will be a complete bonus. You have to focus on her and on giving. If she is the slightest bit interested in working on your marriage, then you'll make it. It is hard - very hard to put your feelings on the shelf. I know what you mean about giving affection to a mannequin. I've been there and I still get that sometimes. But, Ron, don't give up. Keep giving - unconditionally. Keep trying. Talk to her all you can. I got books on conversations. I'm surprised how my W and I can talk for an hour or two at a time now. We both have so much to say and we both enjoy it. <P>If you haven't journalized your feelings you should start. I've written 6-8 good-bye letters. I've written many hate letters to the OM. I've written all that I feel - it helps to get it out. Post here more - that helps too. We'll help you through this. I still have a long way to go. <P>I hope your W and you can stay together. It will be tough to work things out by being separated. But, you know what is best in your situation. My W wanted out and was ready to go last Dec. She stayed because of the kids. I'm glad she did.<P>Hang in there Ron. We can make it through this together.<P>God Bless you.<P>SHA

Thanks SHA. I hear you and you have some thoughts that I think I can apply. <P>I have never considered my W and I to have trouble conversing. We use to work together which gave us room for discussion. We use to do more things together which had the same effect. But now we are more independent and I realize we really don’t talk much unless it is me wanting to discuss some problem I am having with our relationship or the kids etc. I do complain a lot. Anyway, I’ll think about this more and may pick up a book on conversation (any recommendatios?).<P>Praying and becoming more involved in the church is another area I could try. I have come a long way since I met my W but I am still not real sincere about worshipping. <P>Doing things for myself. When W and I met I was big into sailboat racing and windsurfing. I do much less of it these days. I think my W would welcome me going returning to this (in a healthy way - not to just get rid of me). I think she admired my commitment and interest in the sport. I’m considering doing more of it in the Fall when the winds return.<P>And the giving. I can try that. It makes me feel good to give but I "must" have feedback. I need to learn to give without feedback.<P>I do keep a journal but maybe I should do more to get feelings out. I use it more to document events and keep sort of a record of this whole thing (seems kind of warped). Maybe some letters to W, OM, etc. would help me vent without busting.<P>And thanks for telling me some of the things I know about not busting etc. I will read this over several times - really - thanks.<P>Hey, I just made a new post "I’m love Busting". I really do appreciate your advice. Your would welcome your comments there but I think you have basically answered it in this, more personal, thread. Just don’t want you to think for a minute I don’t appreciate what you have told me here or don’t value your advice.<BR>Ron<BR>