I've read some here (started out with Bh & Emo's threads as I am a long ways out from D-Day too).......but not sure where to go next. I don't mind reading, just want to get started on something to help me. Any threads suggested (I realize I need to give some info first)?

We've been together 15 years, married 10.

One July 11 '08, my WH was acting *weird*. Next day, as I'm making myself a sandwich, I ask if he wants one too. He tells me we need to talk. Ok, so I stop and go sit down with my gut telling me something is very wrong. I then get told that he's been "talking" with the secretary from work, but they are just friends. BIG red flag......took my breath away....I had to walk out and go for a walk. I collapsed, then recomposed myself and went back. He gave a little more info, but not much. I'm hurt, angry, confused, you name it.

I find out that my son had confronted him about the cell phone bill. We 3 share a plan, under my son's name (he talked us into getting cell phone's), and just pay him our share. Turns out there were overages. One day earlier in the week before D-Day, WH realized he and the OW were on different plans, and that there had been a lot of activity. He tells my son (age 28 at the time)that a friend of his (didn't specify gender) had been having a rough time, and he was trying to help. He asks my son not to tell me, and that he'd pay the overages. Son says ok, but is suspicious. Son does some checking, talks with my other son (#2) and my brother about this. Son #1, decides to call the number and see who answers. Finds out it's a gal. All 3 decide that WH needs to be confronted, and told that if he doesn't tell me, Son#1 will. Thus prompting my WH to start his story (and why he was quiet/weird on that Friday). All along he had been deleting all phone/text/pictures so there wouldn't be anything for me to see. He had OW's name in his cell contacts as a short guy's name (her initials).

I got many different stories. I'd push and push when things didn't fit, and then would maybe get a bit more, but then something else didn't fit. This went on for months. Finally into October of '08, I got a big portion of the truth (after again much fighting/pushing for it). WH played grab [censored], brushed arms/fingers/hands against each other, kissed her, hugged her, etc......at work. They texted every morning before work, at lunch (he couldn't talk to me because he was busy at work), and after work (he was working late a lot, but records showed otherwise). Talking on the phone a lot, she started with the nude pics, he went there too. A lot of sexual talk. Where we were for the summer, he had a longer drive back and forth to work, which gave him some leeway time wise. Sketchy cell reception there, without being plugged into an external antennae. I had asked him to call OW on D-Day, and at first he refused. Gave excuses...she was out of town for softball tourney, wouldn't have reception, etc. That burned and hurt me. Later that day, he does call and leave a voicemail. "I didn't want to do this, this way, but don't come around me anymore. I don't want to talk to you". Basically not much said.

He continued working with OW for 9 months. He kept his distance, and I got daily updates every day at lunch, and after work. It was sure h e double hockey sticks for me.

I found out more things in November, December '08, and January and February '09. I found a love poem OW had given to him, stashed in a pile where he saves his *important* things. I found a note on his side of the bed he had written to her "R U Serious about tonite? What time? Should I work late?"

Found out the OW spent the next 2 weeks after the A was found out filling in at one of the other shops in this company. One where my BIL and some friends work. She made a point to tell those there that I wasn't "allowing" her to talk to my WH any longer, and other things of that nature. The 2nd week, she made a point of telling everyone that she was pregnant. She was making it sound like it was my WH's, without coming right out and saying that.

WH says no SC at all, and still sticks with that. Me finding out about this OW talking happened months later when my BIL and I were talking one day, and he mentioned it. I had no clue about it. WH felt it was ok to just leave some things out. NOT a good idea!! Early this year, he had to go out of town for a class for work, and though I wasn't pleased, I understand (it was guys only). I decided to get onto his computer and look around, and in his email, and find that he had signed onto Adult Friend Finder the previous year. At first when I asked him about it, he denied it. Well I got looking further.......so I clicked on lost password, and it came to his email, where I then could go into his AFF account and could see his profile. This is the February stuff I found. I had asked and asked if there was anything else (did that all along), and he kept saying no. I didn't see any activity other than the initial set up, but what I found still shocked me.

Previous to this:
While living together early on, I saw a charge for online porn. He told me he had tried to order me some lingerie. I bought into it.

A year or two down the road, I went to a girlfriend's house for a week visit. This was right before we got married. After we go married, I discover within the month that he had rented all kinds of porn vids without me. Before that, we had talked, and I said I'd be open to watching with him. He played dumb when we went to the vid store, when he'd already been there. I find out about this, and renting 4-5 every night while I was gone (and from different places). I also find that he is online looking at this stuff. Big fight, he says he's sorry, he'll never do it again.

A couple years down the road, I catch him online looking at porn. Go through same fighting. Tell him I can't take this, and his lying. Sorry......won't do it again.

A couple more years, and I find it again (he keeps getting sneakier, but I still know more about computers so can find what he thinks he was hiding). I say last straw. He swears he'll straighten up. I tell him he has no trust. I check his cell phone daily for a very long time. Seems to be going ok, I get lax on that, and checking his computer.

During all of this, he avoided having SC with me, because somehow I might find out, so making me wonder what's wrong with me. He said he thought he was paying me attention, when he wasn't. He avoided because I might be suspicious.

All of that led up to AFF (which I didn't find out about until many months after D-Day). While having A, he wasn't on his computer at all. It was 4-5 months A time (still not totally clarified on that). When I got into he either man up and tell the truth, or he's history, he started talking, and we covered a WHOLE lot about the A and OW.

He's been a very selfish man, who thought only of himself. Yes, there were good times, but sometimes I wonder just who he really is. He's also had a temper, so verbal abuse at times was an issue (mostly when drinking and I didn't accept an answer because it didn't fit, or my gut told me it wasn't right). That was something else "we've" been working on. His deal to work on it now.

We went through a lot of books together, and some I feel really helped. I do have Harley's books, and we had started on those, but didn't get all the way through (just due to other things in life).

Recently I've been having a rough time. Lots of triggers. He has been trying, and doing better. I check his cell daily, and look at the bills now too. He messages me throughout the day, we talk during his lunch hour, and any stop he makes he texts me that he's there, and when he's on his way. I give him credit for coming this far. Anything he owned up to, was from me pushing and pushing until he understood. After reading on here, I realize I was being his therapist basically the whole time. I really didn't speak to anyone else. I left my best friend in a black hole, and finally wrote her snail mail this summer after she continued to contact my sons asking about me. I've always been the one to help others.

This A destroyed me. I did some destructive things. Mostly just driving high speed on old windy dirt roads along the mountainside pushing the limit to the point where either I would get too scared and slow down, or have an accident. I about went over a 1000' embankment on one time. I finally got past that. Not like me, but I had no idea of how to fix myself and take the pain away. I HAD to focus on nothing else when I drove like that.

Lately I've felt that maybe we aren't connecting as much again. We had agreed to do some things, like a weekly *Deep Thoughts* talk. The WH agreed to take that on, and make sure it happened (it has twice, and that was months ago). There were some other things like that.

Anyway......last week I've had a bunch of triggers all at once. I came to this site then (had read the site previously, but not the 4M). I was looking for info on how to help myself, thinking I had something wrong as for this to keep happening. Upon reading, I realized that I'm not strange, it didn't help me being his therapist, that I need more from him, that he needs to own his wrongdoings and not because I have to point them out and beat him with a 2x4 for him to open his eyes.

I'm trying to recover. That's what I want. I won't take any kind of betrayal ever again (that's been made clear). I'm just not sure on how to keep moving forward. We did have a long talk last night, and I told him we need to work on our M (also that I can't be his therapist, among other things), so the books are back on.

Whew....that's maybe more than anyone needs, I don't know. I kept reading on here that details were needed, so I've added what I could think of for now. My main objective is to try to heal, to keep my M, and have a happy life.

Any suggestions?

Sorry, I don't have alot of advice here. I am undergoing false recovery after 15 months of no contact between H and OW.

Your post did sound a great deal like my experience however. So, a couple of comments. 1) after a period of time, your sons did the right thing and that is a reflection of their upbringing. 2) I used to drive down one and one half lane curvy country roads at 85 plus mph - so I can relate.

I am sorry this is happening to you. MB site is a good place to find support. Holidays are slow here, so hang in there and I am certain someone will be along to advise.

Best wishes.

AM

Sorry you have to be here, but it's the best place under the circumstances.

Your WH sounds a lot like my XWH - started treating the workplace like his own personal harem and dating service, long hours "working" but unaccounted for, porn, strippers, etc. etc. etc. Bascially, your WH is firmly entrenched in the lifestyle of being married at home and single at work. He is very, very happy with this arrangment and will not ever change it on his own.

I would suggest you read up on Plan A and Plan B. There is info here on the site, and it would be worth it to get a copy of *Surviving an Affair.*

You could try Plan A for a short time - say, through the holidays - all the while making plans for a very dark Plan B.

Remember - no amount of talking will ever bring him to his senses. No amount of pain you suffer will have the slightest effect on him. He is just like a drug addict right now, and addicts can't be talked out of their addictions nor do they care who they hurt or how much.

I made the mistake of not acting soon enough. You can do better. Please read up on Plan A and Plan B and make plans *now* to implement them immediately if not sooner.

Good luck.
Mulan

The only way I can see it working is going through phone counseling with the Harleys, where they will hold him accountable for progress.

Just got through your thread. Been reading some others as well. Dang, I wish I had this site at my hands in the beginning. Unfortunately where I was for that summer (and this just passed one) I had no internet access.

It's no wonder the false recovery with so many things continuing to pop up. I didn't recognize that. And this reading of the "I don't remember" or the getting angry to get out of talking about the A....I never had any clue how common that was. WH did admit to the anger thing as a way to try to deter me. Mulan is also correct that WH was single why he was away from me, and with me married (though not being a very good H). He admitted that to me as well.

I am just trying to understand it all. I still feel that he's lied about some things, and every time I've felt in my gut that he was lying, it turned out I was correct. I now wonder if he's really telling the truth, or if he tells me things went further.....that he thinks I'll leave him and be done with M. I'm thinking it's the latter, but I can't prove that. Of course I also hear the "why can't we just move on".

I am a logical thinker, and I can't let things be if they don't add up. My brain works it and works it. I do wish I could shut it down at times. I have the bad dreams. Not as frequently as before (they were every night for a long time), but at least every week to week and a half. I don't always bring them up, but I do try to put the puzzle together in my head.

So many triggers........even watching a movie.....woman scantily dressed (or those types of scenes), and I am back to thinking of the A. Hearing OW's name (which others have) or the *nickname* which happens to be a guy's name, words, dates, I guess I probably don't need to list it all.....I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. How do I get past that? I know healing isn't an overnight thing. How do I lessen the triggers?

I've been slammed to the ground, and completely taken from my comfort zone (being in charge of MY life). I'm trying to claw my way back, I just don't know how. I've read there is a point when one just needs to let the A go, and move ahead. How do I do that when I still have doubts as to the truth of it? I don't bring it up all the time......and actually I hadn't brought it up for quite awhile, but there were things eating away at me. Holidays coming up, company Christmas party......we missed last year due to a fight because I had found out something from another source that he neglected to tell me (I wasn't even looking, it just came out). Now we have this year's party coming up. I have read about not going on another thread. Yes, OW would probably be there. Trouble is that this has always been a problem for us. EVERY single one of them, he has caused some sort of fight.....I guess looking back, maybe trying to be his single guy mentality and causing a fight, with leaving me in tears broken. He has taken them ALL from me. The last one we went to, he got all puffed up and stuffed his chest into me knocking me backwards (that's the farthest he's went physically).

Other threads to read? Advise? I'm not sure how to proceed. I know he is making the effort to move forward, though sometimes a bit slow or not as much effort put into it (until I bring that fact up).

If you a plan you will feel more in control and empowered. Mulan suggested following Plan A&B. Below is the link and keep reading the articles here to help you understand how to get in control on your situation.

Plan A & Plan B

Carrot & Stick of Plan A

Gg

Thanks for the links gg. Tonight all sorts of new revelations after my pushing for several days on things that haven't fit the puzzle......been being lied to yet again.....so am back at D-Day all over again.

I am NOT in a good place right now.....

I have been where you are, and I'm sorry that you're there. It's awful. My wife lied to me four times before I finally confronted her with hard evidence. That seemed to shake her up a bit, and helped us get started on the road to (hopefully) recovery. I wish I had known about Plan A when this started - it's really helpful.
I know what you mean about being back to D-Day. I feel like I had about 5 of them - new revelations making the situation worse. But it CAN END! Stay on this site and let us know how you're doing.

I could WISH that it has been only 5 times.

Still in shock, hurt, and angry. I'm not sure I want any plan right now......except maybe the big D. I made him sleep on the couch last night, and locked the bedroom door. I don't even have any tears to cry at this time. I've spent months doing that before. I am absolutely floored.

I'm trying not to make any rash decisions right now.

First.....Linus, thanks for your post. I should have said that in my previous post. I'm just not thinking the best right now.

So here is how this came about. I've been doing lots of reading on here. Found a post about googling SIMM card reader. I did that, and first link I clicked on, big ol' letters saying that they could get back info, as well as other things. I didn't read it completely.......was just excited about it. I texted the WH and told him I had found this, and wanted to get it to use on his old phone to pull off all of the stuff he deleted. He texted back he thought it was a waste of money, but do what made me happy.

I get reading further, find out it won't work with the phones we have. So I do more searching to see if there is anything out there, nothing.

WH comes home from work Monday. We talk, he says he thinks it's a waste of money. He also says that I probably will find other things because his memory isn't so good. I get a bit frustrated, but keep my cool. He just can't possibly remember everything, but he's SURE I'll find something. He started the conversation, so I just let it go without telling him I couldn't get back info. I tell him yesterday that if there is something he believes will really upset me, then it is better to hear it from him, than to find it on my own. I told him if I found something serious, that it would destroy out marriage. He still was balking extremely hard over this.

Last night I get a long note telling me of all of these other things, including that he told her he loved her, but he didn't mean it......just wanted to get in her pants (and I'm supposed to believe him when he tells me he loves me?). He was back into the porn again, and AFF (firmly denied that one many times previously) during the same time. I had asked if he had been on his computer a few weeks ago because every time he's done this, he's gotten a bunch of viruses. I went to do some network stuff with it, and it wouldn't go.....same symptoms as previous times. No, he hasn't touched his computer in a year and a half. Just a bunch of things. Mind you, these have been things I've asked over and over and over because they didn't fit the puzzle, and he's denied and outright lied to me about them. I've even put out a few times early on that if he came clean and told me the truth at that time, it would be a *safe* zone (I'd still be hurt and upset, but at least he was being honest). No, nothing else at all....his word on it.

So when the prospect came up of me actually yet again going further to find the truth, he told me more (which now has even more questions because it's changed a bunch of other things he's told me). I'm not happy with what I found out, but what gets me the most is the continued lying. I value honestly very highly.....he knows that.....everyone around me knows that. I raised my sons that way......if they were honest about something they did wrong, punishment was always far less if they told me themselves. We developed a "honest" policy. Meaning if anyone said something, and you asked them "honest", you had to tell the truth (even if one was joking, they had to give it up if they were asked). WH was in on this as well......only his honest apparently has a different meaning .

Anyway....I don't know where I'm at. He left me a note telling me he'd answer my questions tonight, but I really don't know if I want to listen to him. I do want the truth about what's happened that's affected MY life, yet I don't know that he's even capable of that. I need to base my decisions on facts. I don't know that I want to be with him at all (I'll give it a little time before I make that decision as I realize I'm not in the best place right now), but I would like TRUTH. He even had the nerve to tell me he hasn't done anything wrong in a year and a half. I'm not sure what he'd called repeated lying then.

He thinks that since he's "been a good boy" the past year and a half that he doesn't have to tell you about all the other bad stuff.

My H was the same way. I had to poly him to be sure I was getting the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. His reasoning was he'd already hurt me by cheating, and so he'd spare me the rest of the little details since I already knew he'd strayed, and that we could build from there.

It's hard for a WS to realize just how important it is to some BS to kinow every single detail, even about lies that the WS might not thing are significant.

"Good boy"...yeah right. Must have also forgotten about his outbursts and verbal abuse.

I'm feeling a bit more hopeful. When I had found out Tuesday night all of this latest stuff, somehow it turned around and the angry words at me. I know WH is taking his mistakes out on me. I did call him on it last night.

Last night, all talking was done through notes back and forth (he in the living room, and me in the bedroom). Easier to get things out without interruption, or the angry outbursts. He was apologetic about everything. He answered the new questions that arose from changing the lies he previously told.

I did tell him that I don't know if we have a future together or not yet. I said I needed all of the facts to be able to make that decision, and was he willing to do whatever it takes to make things work. He's put me through a lot of poo over the years, and every time I've said he was done if he did it again. Yet here I am. So I flat out asked him about doing what it takes. That there were be stipulations, and part of it legally binding (securing home, truck, support, etc, though I haven't explained those to him yet). If he wasn't agreeable to stipulations, then I had no need to go any further, our M would be over. If he was agreeable, then I would go forward and make a decision based on the rest of things. I did get up at 4am and wrote him a note explaining how I felt from what he's done to me, what he's taken from me, and more questions (been back to the sleepless nights and bad dreams again). I told him we'd talk face to face tonight, and that I would give him an answer by Friday or Saturday (he did agree on stipulations).

I'm leaning towards moving forward. I do feel in my gut that the big questions I've had, and felt he had been lying about (which he was) have now been answered. He didn't want to tell me......he just wanted me to forgive him and move on and we'd live happily ever after. I do feel more peaceful than I have in awhile. Maybe it's because I know most of the truths now, or maybe because I'm sticking to my guns and sticking up for myself, or both. He had said in one note that I wouldn't need stipulations because he wouldn't do this to me ever again. I told him I'd heard that one from him before, and his word was NO good to me. He's proven that over and over and over. I NEED more than that.

I did also thank him for what he's told me thus far, though it shouldn't have taken this long to do it (or things happening in the first place), and that it does look like he is finally owning up to HIS own choices & I felt that was a positive step.

So I think I may look into plan A. First I will start on a list for the legally binding stuff that I want to have in place in case he decides to wander again. I want my ducks in a row when I give him my decision, which will be to give him yet another chance....unless tonight goes badly.

I do appreciate the support and thoughts shared on here!! This is a very tough thing, and it's good to get perspectives from others who have been through it/going through it.

I know I have a long struggle ahead.....I've been struggling for a year and a half since D-Day (and subsequent ones). Maybe now I really do have a *true* D-Day, and can have some little inkling of hope for a happy future.

He'll do whatever...

Great.

Schedule the polygraph for Saturday morning.

I am looking into the polygraph thing as well. Trying to to find where to get it done, who offers it, costs, etc. I think that is good advice.

I would advise you to get it done TODAY. Waywards are notorious for flipping even a day later, and saying they didn't really mean it, you had your chance, whatcha gonna do about it, we can survive without that...

And a polygraph strikes fear in even the most honest people; imagine how much he'll fight it, if he's not desperate to get you to take him back?