So two months after the Divorce she called me when the paperwork was mailed finalizing it to ask me how I was doing. I ignored the heck out of that call.

It's been four months since the Divorce and she called me Yesterday for Thanksgiving to wish me well and to tell me that she was having a weird day because she's used to being a pair on this holiday. That was in a message because I wasn't going to answer the phone. She said she hopes I call back.

Now the problem is this: I never sent a Plan B letter. I've come so far by myself. I'm happy-ish alone. Yet, a part of me wants to venture forth and see what she wants but she doesn't actually know my terms for contact. I never really thought she'd keep in contact or would call me...and part of not sending a Plan B was to tell myself I'm done.

Yet, here she calls and the man who fought for six months tooth and nail doesn't feel comfortable with stonewalling the person he fought for so hard.

The person who is carrying sutures and a big purple scar is telling me, dude you're almost there...let it heal. Don't pull the stitching out. Don't call her back.

What do I want you'll ask me. I want the woman that I think about in my loneliest hours. I want the woman who would tell me she loved me and meant it... I want the woman who when I looked into her plain brown eyes, I couldn't resist kissing her and taking her to bed. I miss the woman that I'd go to plays and concerts, movies, and fine dinners with.

Yes, I can find that in a new woman. And I'm looking. I'm on Match. I've even found one I'm just about smitten for except when I asked her to go out for a first date she got distant and difficult in a heartbeat which just about broke me because it seemed to be going so well that such an unexpected turn just gives me no hope.

I'm thinking I should draft up a Plan B and have a friend give it to her... Because right now there is no protection.

Wow. I don't know that I have any advice for you, but I see me in you, only about six to eight months earlier: My Plan B goes into effect on Monday, and we have a legal separation agreement. I have a lawyer, and she has nothing except the OM. She has no job, no money, no credit, and no prospects for any of them. She only has a car for the next four months unless she somehow finds a way to start making the payments on it.

I am doing the MB tactics, hoping against hope. Everything my WW says and does makes me think she's dead set on leaving the marriage. She says she isn't banking on a relationship with the OM, but her actions belie her words.

And still, I hold out hope that some day down the road she'll take stock and realize that OM can't (and won't) be the loyal, loving H that I was.

But I'm afraid that when that day comes -- if ever it does -- I may not want to go back. There's a lot of baggage that came with her -- even before the A -- and I might be quite comfortable without it then. But I loved her, and married her because I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. And that loss is what is keeping me awake at nights.

Good luck, Monc. I am going to read the replies to your post, because I want the advice now I might need later!

Monc! Glad you're doing better!

Don't answer her. Work on a Plan B letter. Take your time. You've got plenty.

She is just fishing because she's lonely and she knows you're easy.

Sorry, but it's the truth, and you know it.

The good news is you hold all the cards now. It's possible to get her back, but you know now HOW you should take her back - after a LOT of psychotherapy on her part, after a MB weekend, after at least 8 or 10 phone sessions with the Harleys, after a postnup - well, now a prenup - is signed, after you agree through a lawyer that she'll never have access to a dime of yours.

If she's still interested after all that...well, maybe you have a shot.

But my bet is she's lonely and horny, and the grass turned out to be Astroturf. And she knows what a sap you are for her. So she figured she'd give it a shot.

Nice to see you again Catperson. Good advice. Your right. I can be patient and if she gets irritated at being stonewalled until she gets this Plan B letter..oh well. I won't lie, I'm lonely and horny too...but I also practice a chaste approach to non-committed relationships. So I can hold out there because I did for 23 years before we got engaged as it was. Yea, her phone message was full of hints that she was not a "pair" with anyone.

Hey Bubbles4U, I once asked you to not post in my thread. Please don't anymore hence forth in this one. Especially that you have no idea what your saying. No pregnancy going on. And all this "see if I'm strong" to see her while she is "suffering" is absolutely not the point. So...watch...read...and in two weeks you can post here again after you've caught up again on your memory.

Sorry I mixed you up with someone else. The nice thing is I tried to delete my post and it really did get deleted! So the board works.

I respect you and won't post here...again...sorry.

More like indoor/outdoor carpet...

Probably not even that green...

With some piles left by some not-yet-housebroken animal...

Monc, I think a letter might be a good thing. Maybe it isn't really a Plan B letter at all, but a terms and conditions letter expressing the requirements you have for seeing her, talking to her and having contact with her.

The cell phone carriers are masters at writing this kind of thing. Everything they write is in their favor when taken to the ultimate end. They promise to give you service and in exchange you promise to pay them money, keep paying them money or pay them a lot of money in order to stop paying them money. Even when the device you got them to pay a part of the cost of stops working, you have to keep paying for the service or pay them to stop paying them...Oh, did I mention that they can raise how much you pay them every month and if you don't like it you can always pay them in order to stop paying them? If you really want to just walk away you may, but only by first using their staff of paid mediators and if that doesn't work, you can always go up against their fleet of lawyers in court in Atlanta or Newark or someplace else you have no interest in spending the next ten years of your life, while the amount you have to pay them goes up, BTW.

If your only condition is to be open to getting back together again then tell her that up front. If you are willing to date and see where that goes, then spell it out. If you require joint counseling then make it a condition. If you want her to pretty much beg for you to take her back, make it so that she has to jump through so many hoops that she pretty much ends up begging you to take her back.

At this point you have nothing to lose and can only gain what you require from her. If you want her to do certain things in order to even speak to her again, then lay it all out there so that the ball is back in her court. If you are willing to test the waters then make it possible without nailing the door shut but not requiring her to pass through it.

What I'm getting at is you can have this contact any way you want it so don't settle for anything less. If only her being your mate for life is what you really want, lay it out like that so that you don't get dumped on again. If you are willing to make a try without any promises from her, then take what you can get knowing you are likely to get hurt again.

You had a relationship with her before with very little that was in your favor. This time you can make it all in your favor or you can make it a toss up all over again. But do NOT settle for less than you need because you can't up the ante later.

So you can require that she agree to marry you again as part of your T&C and that she be willing to attend a MB weekend in order for you to even answer the phone. You can require that she sign a legal document witnessed by the Attorney General stating that if she ever wants to leave you again then she just walks away with the clothes she can carry in one hand.

Of course you'd never get any other woman you ever date to agree to such terms and conditions, so she probably won't either.

Monc, you have to decide if you want to walk away or take a chance to see if you might be able to get her back. That's really no different than the choice you had from the very beginning. You fought for her but ended up fighting against her because she set those terms and conditions as the only possible outcome. Now the affair is done, she's back to who she once was, or at least pretty close and you get to decide if you are willing to expose your heart to her again.

You can ask for guarantees if you would like, but even guarantees are only as good as those who offer them.

One of the problems is that only with time can you really come to the decision to end this once and for all. You haven't decided that yet. You can simply decide that now or you can leave the door open, but you can't just ignore her unless you can explain to her why you are ignoring her.

Make it so that the only possible answer is for her to come back, be your wife, make all terms of future separation totally in your favor and only that as a possible solution is what you'll settle for. I don't think she'd agree to those terms but you can try. It just makes it an either/or situation, an all or nothing, a my way or the highway type of thing. This puts the ball in her court and lets her decide...

You aren't really making the choice after all, only deferring it to her.

Are you willing to expose yourself to the possibility of being hurt by her again?

Are you willing to open yourself up to being hurt by anyone again?

Are you willing to nail the door shut if she doesn't agree to terms that are favorable to you?

Are you willing to accept the possibility that it will end up right where you already are; divorced, not living together, with no contact, by opening your heart to her again knowing you might be, even are likely to be hurt again?

Mark

I too, love this comment...

Great post, Mark.

Thanks Mark. I'm kind of processing.

SuturedMonc,
Great post by Mark - I would only add - ask yourself what is her true motivation (any time she contacts you). People get lonely and nostalgic around holiday time.

Gg

Monc,

I am going to offer a different perspective on this. I say contact her. Here is why. You are divorced, a plan B letter really doesn't make sense. I'm pretty sure you won't become the OM in her new relationship right? RIGHT???

But, I believe a bit in the hair of the dog that bit you theory. Here is why.

See this quote. It is from a man in love with an illusion that does not exist. He needs to find out it does not exist and the best way to do that is see the REAL woman that is your ex-W. If this woman existed you would NOT be divorced. Sitting home dreaming of "what was, what could have been" is foolish. The person you dreamed about called you, and she isn't what you think.

Ok, and before everyone accuses me of being an emotional mush brain, let me explain what is happening. She is guilty, and she feels guilty and she is trying to assuage the guilt by seeing if you are "OK". If she really cared the time between phone calls would be much closer. The effort to save the marriage would have been real and her affair would be over.

I say: You are a divorced man, you are not in plan A or plan B, you are not in plan marriage. You need to face the fact that the dream you have is nowhere close to the reality of an adulteress that destroyed your marriage. Is she the devil incarnate? I doubt it. Is she the woman you dream about? NO!!!

You really cannot have another good relationship until you have learned and worked out the issues of this one. You have yet to learn that her actions do not square with your dreams. I think contact with her, facing that she is continuing with this OM or some other man, and realizing she is only trying to help HERSELF and not you will help put this to rest.

You will always remember and cherish the good times. This you should do. But, you must also remember that the good times with her are over and they are over because she is not the woman you married.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

I've realized as I was watching Legend of the Seeker 3rd Episode what I want.

It's not the fantasy of who she was... I mean honestly Just Learning, if we were not all fighting for that fantasy we would not attempt Plan A and then Plan B in an effort to save it would we? They've already torn our hearts out and spit and defecated upon everything we cared about. We all know that that piece of paper that says, "Married" is only that. What is there to not fight for while married, if not when not?

I understand that you simply mean to show me in a different way that I may be grasping at an illusion with nothing tangible. That's good and it helps me maintain a healthy posture in my growth and healing to keep it under consideration that she very well might be feeling guilty and trying to selfishly assuage that. Yet, is it not at the point of the WS feeling guilty that there might be a chance? The whole point of Plan Exposure, Plan A, and finally Plan B is to shake up the Affair causing symptoms to put an ointment to it, and finally when all else does not stem the infection, we sever the limb to remove the gangrenous spread in destroying everything that is left within the heart and body of the loving BS.

What I realize that I want which is the only way I can come to love her again is...

I want her to show remorse for the way she hurt me. Next to having a happy and strong marriage again I want that most...a heartfelt apology. Whether I can accept her back in my life or not. She has hurt me tremendously and as every one of us BS's realize, it isn't always our choice how we finally come to feel after so much torture and loneliness to reflect upon that very pain inflicted on us by the one we trusted most.

Monc,

You are divorced. She is with another man. And you want to become the OM??? You said It does not make sense. Yes you fight while you are married and that is what all of the plans are about. Now that it is over, quit fighting. You are not fighting for your marriage, you are not really even fighting for your exW. You are simply fighting yourself.

I told you to contact her. I also told you that you would very likely simply be used, your call if that is what you want. I don't care.

You want her to show remorse, is saying "I'm sorry" remorse, when she continues with her life with OM? Is remorse saying "I'm really really sorry I hurt you" remorse when she continues to do and live as she is????

You define remorse and we will talk about it. All of this is your call but you are boxing at shadows and all you will get is tired.

So are you saying you want to speak with her? I told you go do it.

Your call, your life. What are you going to do?

God Bless,

JL

She is going to hurt you again and again. If you talk to her my gist is that she will tell you she was just checking on how you were doing. I doubt she will agree to any of the conditions spelled out in one of the posts.
Once you contact her and you realize she does not want you back, then you can really move on.
Maybe you need that last bit of pain to let her go for good.
blessing

I think she's just feeling lonely and she happens to miss the special moments you used to share together. But, you need to also search within yourself if you still have feelings for her. I have learnt to never say never in life.

Anything can happen between the two of you later on. Anyway, the important thing is that you both relate with each other in a friendly manner.

I personally believe that the word "friendly" does not fit in a relationship where one of the spouses cheated and lied.
YOur wife would have to do lots of work if she were to be my friend and I still had feelings for her. Do you still? A way to find out would be to meet her and have her do all the talk. And see how you feel about her. I doubt you can still love her. By the way...if she is still with OM I would not even bother seeing her or communicating with her and will tell her not to contact me till she broke off with him. You can let her know that in a brief letter or email to her.
And, yes, there is always a chance you two can get back together...but let's face it, in some instances it is safe to say the M is over. On top of that you are also divorced and are trying to date OW. Sounds like you started to move on till she then called you and opened the wound up again. It is not fair that the WS can make us and break us as they please. Protect yourself and find someone who is faithfull and that deserves you.
Blessing