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Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Quote
Since neither EN's nor MLC's are EXCUSES for infidelity...why is it that one sex (men) are more likely to blame it on MLC (seemingly a personal problem) whereas the wayward women seem prone to hanging their hats on unmet needs ("If you hadn't neglected me") which to me is more of a blame shifting thing?

IME I have not noticed men "admitting" to a MLC. It's more like it's blatantly obvious to the outside world but they won't acknowledge it. I believe deep down they know how ridiculous they look but they won't admit it and won't stop the craziness.

I have another thought...does anyone wonder which comes first, the MLC of the A? <The chicken or the egg?>

Dr. Harley seems to indicate that MLC is most often associated with a career, thus, the MLC comes first and infidelity, drugs, alcohol (the escape) come about LATER as they cope/soathe their career crisis.

Therefore, if the "affair" happens first...it's certainly NOT a mid-life crisis. It's just waywardness (which is why the age of the wayward makes no difference in how they behave). MLC is just a convinient excuse for those IN MID-LIFE.

I suppose as women work more the prospects of woman mid-life crisis will become more evident. I think the condition is most poignant when either sex discovers the corporation they have poured their soul, hopes and dreams into for the last 5, 10, 15 years...doesn't really love or care about them at all.

I do agree that menopause is more likely the woman's answer to Male mid-life crisis. (though Zelmo, you are free to claim it if you'd like)

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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This true MF.
The reason I posted in MB101 was because I was not only talking about A's.

I was talking about the phenomina>sp? (ho,boy) of 180 degree change of character, that appears to come on like a lightswitch has been thrown.
This includes dramatic change in personality, habits, depression, questioning and family relationships. Not just M's or having A's.

I 100% agree that a career issues is a huge underlying problem-
I agree that most marriages can not
A. wait for the MLC to be cleared up (some beleive it takes years).
I wonder what he would have spouses do if they feel they are in a M with a MLC'r.


Me; W 46
Him; H 46

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No problem. I have male menopause. It sucks.

Now, where's my article on "Why Menopausal Men Leave Women, and how Women Can Encourage Them to Leave". smirk

Last edited by Zelmo; 12/04/09 01:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
Aren't we splitting hairs, here? What about menopause, the "change of life?" I completely think that part of her behavior is based on this.

HOLD THE PHONE !

I went through menopause and did NOT have an affair.

I think it's a BAD idea to place blame for poor choices on ~any~

age /developmental

level.

Bad choices are not a part of menopause.


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Originally Posted by Zelmo
No problem. I have male menopause. It sucks.

Now, where's my article on "Why Menopausal Men Leave Women, and how Women Can Encourage Them to Leave". smirk

Then read "The Irritable Male Syndrome" by Jed Diamond. Seriously. It has a lame name but the book itself is very informative and helpful.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Originally Posted by Zelmo
I don't buy this. I just spotted a middle age woman with a bare midriff and spandex.
In my neck of the woods, women going through MLC are termed "cougars". The above discription often applies.

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A social worker once told me that generally when men leave a marriage, it's usually through an affair/OW. When women leave, it's usually because they are D..O..N..E. They have tried and tried and tried and tried. And then they hit that wall.

It's generally much harder to get a woman to recommit to a marriage (whether or not she was wayward) than it is a man.

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OH,

Are you saying men are more patient or that they are more willing to tough it out and work harder? So men are more forgiving than women?

I'll go along with that!

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No...I'm saying that women tend to stay in the marriage way beyond the balance of their love banks going red. Deep red. And then they realize they are so far overdrawn that no loan is going to bring them out of their massive debt. So they declare bankruptcy and leave.

Men (to continue the financial analogy), just take out a loan on a new car (OW).

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OH,

Your assuming the men want or do take out a loan on a new car, right? It would be sexist to think men do not or cannot stay when the love bank goes deep into the red.

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I said "in general" Mud. There are exceptions on both sides.

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Originally Posted by OurHouse
A social worker once told me that generally when men leave a marriage, it's usually through an affair/OW. When women leave, it's usually because they are D..O..N..E. They have tried and tried and tried and tried. And then they hit that wall.

It's generally much harder to get a woman to recommit to a marriage (whether or not she was wayward) than it is a man.

NOT the kind of encouragement I was looking to find. But OH, I have heard that as well. Just reality, I guess.




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OH,

I WAS KIDDING BOTH TIMES!!!

BT,

My heart aches for you man.

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Originally Posted by themud
OH,

I WAS KIDDING BOTH TIMES!!!

BT,

My heart aches for you man.

Thanks Mud. I should probably just go back to my old moniker. I'm not really worried about Mrs. TB wandering in here. Just some snarky commentary from her BH, right? Plus, you guys would have my back. Guys? Hello? Anybody there?

It should be a fun-filled weekend, so I'll be sure to chime in as the excitement plays out. (I hope the sarcasm isn't too annoying. It's kinda therapeutic for me.....)

TB





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Originally Posted by OurHouse
No...I'm saying that women tend to stay in the marriage way beyond the balance of their love banks going red. Deep red. And then they realize they are so far overdrawn that no loan is going to bring them out of their massive debt. So they declare bankruptcy and leave.

Men (to continue the financial analogy), just take out a loan on a new car (OW).

Hogwash, IMO. I see no evidence that women are more committed to marriage than men. Thye cheat at the same rate and usually have another guy lined up when they divorce.

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What Zelmo said.

I think a major difference is that women tend to want to repair the marriage more than do men. Men seem to find it far easier to simply walk away.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
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No, men generally don't walk away, as another poster said. They are more likely to be walked out on whether the wife is walking because she's at the end of her rope or she's got an OM waiting for her.

It's true that women are more likely to want to "fix" the marriage, but if an OM gets their attention first, they'll forget about the marriage in a heartbeat.


The Macnut-42, W - 45 3 stepkids,
SDD - 27, SDS1 - 22, SDS2 - 18
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Back then to the reason I asked the question in the first place. Dr. H admits he believes in MLC.

How does a spouse deal with a partner who seems alien?

They just don't fit in the MB mold. Even if they did for 20 years.
Not that I have seen.
Is MLC a different condition? How does it fit into MB?

any MLC war torn vet ring in on this?

Last edited by barbiecat; 12/05/09 09:28 PM.

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I suppose that a spouse whose partner seems alien should do as Dr Harley does:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
barbiecat:

I don't usually put much emphasis on MLC because it tends to be a distraction when trying to solve a marital problem in the most efficient and effective way possible. For example, if a man has an affair, some might argue that it's due to a mid-life crisis which should be treated first. The therapeutic plan would then dictate that he resolve the issue creating the crisis (he's unhappy about the way his life is turning out) and then address the affair itself. Since those having affairs usually want to delay ending them, they like the idea of extended therapy. But the time it takes to complete therapy for midlife crisis usually results in a wife and children long gone.

Granted, when a man has come to my office deeply depressed, wondering if his life's worth living, even I have used the term, mid-life crisis, to help describe what he's going through. Sometimes, in an effort to rise above his depressive state, he uses alcohol and drugs, and very rarely, infidelity, to treat his depression, which invariably makes him even more depressed.

The problem of mid-life crisis, and the resulting deep depression, is almost always due to a man's career. But if he's using drugs, alcohol, or having an affair as a way to treat his depression, my first order of business is to rid him of these self-destructive measures, and then to treat the mid-life crisis. His short-sighted solutions are far more damaging to him than the problem itself.

Why isn't the issue of mid-life crisis mentioned more in my articles? Because it's a very rare cause of infidelity, but a very common excuse to avoid prompt action to end an affair.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
I.E, treat the presenting problem first. If it is an affair, end the affair. If it is drinking, stop that, and so on.

When the immediate crisis has been dealt with, the MLC can be addressed. If, as Dr Harley says, in a man it is due to his career, then career options should be explored.

I suppose if, in a woman (or man), it was due to issues around ageing and attractiveness, then non-destructive ways of maintaining attractiveness and coming to terms with the fact of ageing should be sought.

Dr Harley uses the term "depression" in relation to MLC, suggesting that it is a particular form of depression that comes with an unhappiness about reaching middle age. There are known, effective ways of dealing with depression, if the depressed person can be encouraged to try them.


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Originally Posted by barbiecat
Back then to the reason I asked the question in the first place. Dr. H admits he believes in MLC.

How does a spouse deal with a partner who seems alien?

They just don't fit in the MB mold. Even if they did for 20 years.
Not that I have seen.
Is MLC a different condition? How does it fit into MB?

any MLC war torn vet ring in on this?

IME, a MLC does not change ONE THING in how a BS deals with an A. NOT ONE.

You still need to expose...you still need to Plan A, and the prep for and execute Plan B if necessary. A "MLC" has nothing to do with any of these things.

In fact,IME, ending the A also ends the MLC. Or at least hastily speeds up the ending of the MLC.

Again, this is all just IMHO, but it's all I know. It was all one-and-the-same. As soon as the A ended, so did the MLC. I am not sure if this is how other's experience was, but it was mine.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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