I(H)am posting this because I am at my wits end about what to do. Here are the brief details.
1. Had twin boys in 2002, one born with Cerebral Palsy.
2. W quit teaching to stay home with kids.
3. I got a great job offer in another state so we moved. Left W�s family and home state.
4. Depression kicked in for W. Her mom and brother moved with us to help with the kids. Her mom and dad have been divorced for some time.
5. W didn�t want to move and feels her life is out of control and she needs to feel in control.
6. W is on Lexapro, helps a little I guess.
7. Big issue, she recently told me she doesn�t know how long she can put up with me any more. It�s a lot more about the little things like leaving something out or not picking stuff up around the house. I try so hard to make her happy. She tells me that she will never be happy again. The woman I married is gone and all I have is a W that is depressed all the time. She says she has major/clinical depression. She tried going to a therapist but after a couple of visits she told me she had nothing else to say and that therapy wasn�t helping. I feel like nothing I do helps, sometimes makes it worse. We have sex about once a month because she has very low sex drive. I have very high drive but I try not to push. I recently went out of town for three days and she told me that they were the happiest 3 days for her. She feels like I am a 4th child that she has to take of. We have a 3yr boy also.
I try to help out as much as I can with the kids, but then I slack on doing stuff for the house. Then she complains when the house looks like crap. I feel like I am in a no-win scenario here. I am a very laid back person and I try to keep a positive attitude but lately I am becoming depressed myself. Especially when I found out I can never make my W happy again.
This all stems back to our son�s disability but it seems like it�s all my fault that our marriage is in jeopardy. We sat down and talked about the other night and she actually cried a little (wow! Emotion! Haven�t seen that in a while!). I told here I was in denial about her being so depressed and have since been searching the internet and reading about loving someone with depression. All I have read though just pointed out symptoms and some vague do�s and don�ts.
We do have our moments. We have passion every once and awhile. But it doesn�t take much for it to all come crumbling down. I walk on pins and needles. I want to make deposits in the love bank (we started reading His needs Her needs a couple of years ago but stopped after chpt 1) and avoid LBs. I want and desire to make her happy but I feel like she doesn�t give a crap about my needs or LBs. She told me she doesn�t find anything endearing about me at all anymore.
I just don�t know how much more of this I can take! Any suggestions?

If your wife didn't want to move, how was the decision made to do so?

Depression is crippling. And it affects the whole family. I have bipolar disorder, and when I am depressed, it's awful. And it definitely brings out selfishness, even though addressing the selfishness is almost impossible because of the depression. I hate Lexapro. It did awful things to me. I sounds like she needs something different. Is she angry? Does she have outbursts? They actually told me after my dx that my rages for all those years were actually something called "dysphoric mania." It's like depression on angry steriods.

My husband felt he was in a no-win for a long time too. There was nothing he could do to fix it. No matter what he said, it was wrong. If he did help with the house, I thought he was trying to make me feel bad. If he didn't, I was mad that he didn't help. Looking back, I really can't believe we lasted through it.

If she is at all receptive to more treatment it would be good. But I don't think a counselor is enough. If there is something chemical going on, then a psychiatrist is best.

All,

I am so sorry for what you've been and are going through. To me, your post describes what my DH was thinking and feeling, his experience, during my years of depression.

I said terribly cruel things, just as your W has said to you. I'm very sorry. In my ears, at the time, they sounded honest, when all along they were lies to myself and my DH.

You are in a very tough place right now...the only thing I can recommend is for you to stop taking her LBs without action. When she makes hurtful statements, say "Ouch" and leave the room. Come back in 20 minutes when you are fully under control and explain how much those statements hurt. That you are in pain and you are considering ending the marriage.

Neither of you have healthy boundaries nor do you enforce marital boundaries. You can do so. One is way is to do ALL of HNHN...to plow through even when you don't feel like it. Same with counseling...take Luri's advice and find a psychiatrist...make it a requirement of you staying in the marriage.

Because you cherish your family...and you want an intact, thriving family...and you want to learn how to own, amend and accept apologies and amends, too.

Read all of Harley's articles here on the website...especially the four rules of marriage. Make sure you get 20 hours of UA time in (which is very difficult with small children...know that it isn't optional, it's essential). Use it to reconnect, play like children, really listen and be heard...know you're teammates instead of enemies...

And know that taking verbal abuse from a depressed spouse isn't healthy...their depression does not excuse disrespect and harm...your job is to protect The Marriage...please do so. It's not all or nothing...be happy or you're outta there...it's graduated, predetermined boundary enforcements taken each step of the way, which are acts of love, respect and honesty.

You can do this...her mental illness, as Luri said, precludes healthy marriage building right now...so work on your stuff (eliminating LBs, identifying your ENs...including those she meets well), and require she gets diagnosed and does the prescribed treatment (meds and talk therapy) because you know she can conquer this...that she really is in control (and she is). Even when she feels like she isn't.

Ask her to fill out the EN questionnaire so you can see if you're putting a lot of effort in the wrong directions...and keep a new vow to yourself...to not do that which you will resent. Stop yourself. Tell her. Ask her about her love languages...tell her what yours are...focus on acting calm and respectful, even when you don't feel it.

And when she makes a statement about you being the cause, control or cure for something that you cannot be (of her feelings, thoughts, beliefs, perceptions), then restate them back to confirm or clarify, "I hear you believe I make you miserable, is that correct? I believe you feel upset, afraid and angry. I believe you don't want to keep experiencing these same emotions, again and again."

Hand back what isn't yours...do not create and nurture resentment. It corrodes your insides and your marriage...not what you want. And if you leave the marriage, you take years of resentment with you...becomes your fixation and your drug. Please don't do that.

And don't buy into fantasy...about being unable to make your wife happy again. That's baloney. Don't go there. That's your hurt and pain talking...and it's a lie.

Because everything comes to pass...you can BOTH be in love with each other again and again throughout your lives...it's not magic or destiny...it's working together, knowing you're in it together, especially through the tough times...following the four rules of marriage, minding your own LBs and eliminating them...and changing together, over time.

She holds onto resentments already...see her hard grip, where her thoughts dwell (on what she doesn't want), which becomes her treasure...and DO NOT do that.

Choose your thoughts, set your goals...do what is within your power to get her the medical help she needs and then stop...get out of the way of her consequences...and mind your own. Respect her more...she's not bad or broken. She can't break you, either. Sure can feel as if this were possible.

It isn't...know the difference.

She can overcome depression...she can do amends for the harm she's caused and let go of what she wasn't really responsible for...she can be a whole different person...same as you. Study and learn...because going along to get along is what ends marriages.

LA

With W not able to work, we were sinking with only my salary. I actually made less than she did and she was a teacher! With the new job offer I would be making twice as much. It was one of those "I know we need to do it but I hate it" type deals. A lot of our decisions aren't necessarily made by us instead for us due to our son's disability. Where we live, what type of house, what school district, what county because of therapy services and medicaid issues.

Thanks for the question!

Thanks for the reply!
She doesn't have anry outbursts, shes just fed up all the time. She sighs constantly and quickly gives up when aced with any kind of resistance. She does say and do some pretty hurtful things though. She told me that she tries not to care about the things I do anymore but it ends up she stops caring about me. She said she thinks of herself as a single parent now. She even wants me to setup a seperate retirement fund for her just incase we don't make it. She gets paid by our son's trust for being his caregiver but it isnt much and we really don't need it, but she recently asked them for a raise and I ask why. Her response was that she was going to need more to save up if we get a divorce. At the time I didn't think we were anywhere close to spliting up and it really made me panic and I felt sick to my stomach because she said it with a straight face like it didn't phase her about what she just said.

I definitely think she needs new meds. Lexapro worked fine on my mom when she was going through a hard time but it was a mild and isolated depression. W's is a long term event as long as our son with the disability is alive. Which he is very healthy considering his CP.

I get it. You know where I was going with the question, right? A situational depression. Dr. Harley talks about it in one of his books, "Lovebusters" iirc. Your wife has a lot going on...left a career, challenged child, foreign place...enough to send anyone but the most Pollyanna-ish into some sort of depression.

I don't really know how to say this without sounding like Tom Cruise. I truly don't discount real medical depression.

It's just that sometimes, we are sad because to not be sad at those times would be almost inhuman. Grief for a child who will not do all the things we want for him, grief for a loss of place in the society we knew, grief for loss of personal dreams that must be pushed aside, lots and lots of grieving potential I see in your story.

Why, may I ask, did you not quit working to stay home since your wife made more money? I assume you didn't know about the CP until birth, right? Was the decision made on the spur?

Would it be possible to change that decision now? Or at least entertain it?

Is she under the care of a general practitioner or a psychiatric doctor?

She tried to go back parttime after the twins were born but she couldn't focus and was always concerned about the kids at the babysitters given our son's CP. Her boss actually told her to take more time off.

I make way too much money now for us to switch. She actually took a parttime preschool job at our church for a couple of years but with the birth of our 3rd son it was just too much stress on her and the kids.

I believe she is only seeing our PCP.

This is a very bad idea! That she is having mental illness treated by a general practitioner for one part, that you don't know for certain who your wife is being treated by, for another.


This sounds suspiciously like you're saying that you prefer to have money over having a mentally healthy wife for yourself, or a mentally healthy mother for your children. Please tell me my interpretation is way off!

I looked at her bottle of lexapro and the doctor on it is her obgyn. Is that odd? I am going to look for a psychiatrist for us bot to go to.
As for the money. I would love to quit and take care of the kids and let her go back. She told me before we had kids that she wanted to stay home with them. She wanted to at least get a pt job to help with money and to occupy her time. It was just to stressing for her. Us switching jobs isn't going to help much, if any. Then we would be fighting about money issues (FS). We have finally gotten out of debt and have no mortgage.
Also about the money, it is very expensive to raise a child with special needs. Therapies, toys, vacation (handicap accessible van rentals), etc. FS is one of her top EN and that one I can finally meet.
I am also part owner in a company that is finally getting ready to take off and if it does I will consider quiting my FTjob and be home more. But if she already doesn't want me around then that may pose a problem!

It's not very odd, no...mine wrote me a script for percocet when I hurt my back once...I just happened to be in her office and didn't want to have to see someone else for the short-term need.

But I wouldn't keep seeing my ob-gyn for back pain if it had continued, kwim? I'm glad you're looking for more specialized help for your wife. Popping pills does NOTHING to change life circumstance.

I read your old post...have you done any snooping to see if she is involved with someone else?

First, she definitely must go to a psychologist for regular sessions. She will never be able to overcome the depression without talking about it.

Second, the psychologist can recommend a psychiatrist for getting the antidepressants. Her obgyn is unqualified to prescribe ADs! There are hundreds of different kinds, AND different combinations!

Third, you need to check her cell phone records and install a keylogger on her computer, just to make sure she hasn't rekindled an old romance. When you get a devastating blow to your 'dreams' like a child with CP, it gets you to start questioning your choices, who you married, wondering if you would have just married that other person, maybe the kids...oh and I bet I could check up on old Joe from college, wonder what he's up to...

And before you know it, she's in a full-blown emotional affair. And guess what happens next? Now that she has an out, she starts talking about not loving you and what life will be like after you're divorced.

You are getting some good advice. I do understand about job sitch. I am a teacher, and though I love my kids at school, teaching is very mentally and emotionally taxing in some unique ways. Teaching with a mental illness presents unique challenges. If I had cancer or MS, I would never question whether to miss work if I was in lots of pain or sick or whether I should talk to administration about it. With mental illness it is like walking a tightrope because it is poorly understood by most people.

LA gave you some wonderful advice about not believing the terrible things she says. Depression distorts everything. And with proper help, she CAN manage and overcome this.

I do agree about the snooping. I do believe that being in a fragile emotional state can weaken our boundaries even further.

I am thinking of both of you.

CWMI - I have not done any snooping. I felt bad for doing it in the first place and even worse when I found it. I know it was for the best I guess. I talked to her about it and she said she was still going to email and talk to him but only around the holidays to keep in touch. I told her I didn't want her to talk to him at all but that didn't happen I don't think. I believe she deletes all the emails and keeps her emails clean from evidence. Or she doesn't talk to him anymore. Phone records r clean. All I know is I would never contact an ex and share personal stuff for the fear that something just might evolve.

What would be the logger of choice?

ALL - I really appreciate all the advice and I am grateful I found this site. I don't like turning to family for things like this because theydon't need my burdening and they can be a little biased sometimes.

Say what?

I think you neglected to tell us that you already knew there was another man!

You need to ask the mods to move this thread to Surviving an Affair so you can get better advice.

You are WASTING VALUABLE TIME worrying about her depression when she is having an affair! Because NOTHING she is saying right now is the truth! It is a crack-addict's ramblings who has lost sight of reality!

You HAVE to expose this affair to HER family and HIS family. IF you don't you might as well just get divorced today.

NOTHING else will work now.

Cat - I have an older post about 2 yrs ago or so. I found an email to her exB where she stated to him that she had a dream about him and her that was inappropriate to have for two people that are married to other people. This guy was the guy before me and after a long bad relationship that almost turned into marriage until she broke it off. The guy is in a different state far away. She says he is special to her because he was the first after that long relationship that let her be her. She felt free.

Now, looking at it from that angle I can see why she might try to contact him. She gave me the whole friend bit and thats all. I did check her emails for a little while after and she contact him again but it was very benign. So they made it seem I guess.

I understand about emotional affairs and that is why I sat her down and did the questionnaire together and started reading the HNHN book. Things got beeter after that for a little while this seems to be different and hinges more on the depression and not an EA. Am I being nieve here or do you really think she is still having an EA?

I... I'm so tied of this!

Don't you all think it is worst for the relationship if I go snooping and violate her privacy with a keylogger and I find nothing but she finds out what I am doing? But on the otherhand if has nothing to hide why is she double deleting her emails!

Yes, she still thinks he is the answer. I think to snoop or not is the number one issue here - but the typical answer is 'there should be NO secrecy in a marriage.' Deleting emails is secrecy just as much as installing a keylogger. Bottom line is are you ready to make a change? If you don't, she will like make a change FOR you.

The key thing is that if she IS still contacting him, any advice about ENs etc. is wasted - it's wasting time because the longer she is in any kind of affair, the less chance you have of getting her back. Also, the actions you take (assuming it's just an unhappy wife) will NOT have the effect you need.

Slow down, there, Hoss.

Sounds like you have been making excellent choices for your family. You moved to provide support, your wife is not able to teach (even part time) and this would not have been avioded no matter where you live.

OBGYN's quite often perscribe AD's, they are qualified, but not experts in this field, sounds like your wife needs someone who can tune into her meds/symptoms more. Without testing, altering, tweeking and changing (with monitoring) by a Psy. you can not rule medications positive or negative.

First, it is not you. It is not your marriage causing her depression problems. It is not the birth of your twins or the health problems of one that is the cause of her problems.
It is not her fault either. We all are dealt cards, you have to play the hand you are dealt in life.
So don't feel guilty and kill blame-- or it will kill your family.
--rest.


First there is depression. That needs to be seen as an independant problem that needs to be addressed BY ITSELF stand alone-- before any other problem can be fixed.

May her family help with an intervention for her? Is she at this state? She needs to posthaste get herself to a Psych and request help.
If she can not see this herself your family must make her see
how damaging and LONG term, fall out of depression can be for children.
There are now many new options that were not available a few years ago that to some people see as a modern miracle for them.

It takes patience and time. If she finds the right combo, she will feel like bricks have been taken off her back.
Counseling is another great option (IC for her first) not MC!
others are:
proper nutrition
vitamin suppliments
exercise.

Until her head is out of this fog, I have no idea how to proceed with your M problems.

Do not do any more monumental life altering descisions until you can come to a descision about her treatment.

Tell her you will be there for her until she finishes treatment. That you know no one is responsible for her depression, but she is responsible for seeking treatment- for the sake of herself and children- at least.

I wish you luck.

I... I'm so tied of this!

Hang in there man. You are tired because you didn't resolve it 2 years ago and let it drags on. I assume you have insurance. You could talk with PCP to get referral for your W to see therapist, she needs it. You also needs one. There are local non profits that will give you help w/ sliding scale or even at no cost. Like you say raising your kids are not easy !. I don't know which state you live in, check local crisis center, call them and find out local support group for family with these issue. Go with your wife and give her a break from the house.

Find out what EN that OP fills and learn how to fill it. Stop snooping if you are not ready or don't know what to do with the info. Get MB help, I know it is expensive but I assume you already familiar yourself with MB concept and you have tried "doItYourSelfMB".

Redhat

Okay! So if I take everything that everyone is saying and put it in a blender I get a plan!

So here it goes:
1. I installed keylogger and will snoop for about a week or two. I have to be careful, it is close to Christmas.
2. Talk to my PCP and get a referral to a Psychologist for her and me.
3. Finish reading HNHN book and talk about EN.
4. Come up with a code word that we both understand to let each other know that what we said hurt them, like OUCH.
5. Spend more one on one time with the kids.

This is about all I can think of doing right now. Did I miss anything?