Ok....where to even begin. First, I will apologize if I get mixed up on the acronyms, I will do my best! Second, I am not married...this is a conversation about the one I want to marry after a failed first marriage....

I guess we will start with the background. We are both divorced, met at the office and fell in love. Not many people knew about us until recently as we were both in the process of getting divorced and it was better to keep everything quiet on all fronts. (we were not together prior to being in the process of getting divorced from our former spouses).

We had known eachother for a while as friends prior to getting together. We supported eachother through the divorce process and gradually became closer. We started dating over 2 years ago. Everything was picture perfect until earlier this year. She had to travel out of the country for family business and I was unable to go with her. The first day that she was gone I called into her voicemail on her cell phone trying to make sure that no business calls were accidentally in there. I should never have done that, or maybe I should have. There was one saved message, it was from 2/14/2007, before we had started dating. A voice on the phone said "hey honey, its me, I wanted to see if you wanted to hop onto IM and chat. Love you, Hugs and kisses" and hung up. My heart was in my throat. Why are we saving a mysterious voicemail for so long? I couldn't talk to her and she was gone for 2 weeks. I tried to keep my cool (which didn't work out well at all) while she was gone. I checked e-mails and cell phone records trying to resolve what was going through my head. I found them, it was the person who introduced us. No calls to him had been made in the last 12 months (cell records didn't go back further then that). When she returned I asked why save it, what really had happened etc. "We were just really good friends". That didn't make sense based on all of the information that I found. Everything went back to normal for a while as I tried to believe what she told me. There was something weird though, on the cell phone bill there was a call placed the night of a party she attended alone (while we were still a secret from everyone) from an area 20 miles away from the party. I questioned that too and was told that she had no idea.

Fast forward to July. I have now met some family and friends. One of her friends called me a hebrew name (I am catholic so I didn't know what it meant and looked it up..it means "choosen one"). I had a flashback to the ghost e-mail account that I found earlier in the year. It was the same name that she couldn't recall what it meant. I was crushed. I confronted her and that's when it all came out. The "close friend" was actually a lover. They were together while she was married, he still is. Why she didn't tell me I still don't know. She says she doesn't know. The weird location on the cell phone bill was actually someone's house. She was at the party, got drunk and went home with another couple and slept with her friends wife (and potentially him, she says no but the story hasn't been consistent there either). She told me that she knows that she hurt me, she is sorry and will never do it again.

I so want to believe that but we discussed the voicemail guy and it took 3x to get the truth out. When I ask about the night of the party the reason that she cheated was 'I was drunk and we started talking about it, I got caught up in the moment' then 'I felt so ashamed and knew that what I did was wrong'. When asked how I know that this will never happen again "I would never do that to you again, and everyone knows about you now".

My arguement is that she knew about me and that's all that should have mattered.

I sit here and doubt myself all the time now. This is the person that I love more then anything in the world, I want us to work but I don't know how to stop feeling this way. She is not a good communicator and has started seeing a therapist so that she can express her feelings and emotions more. I am just so frustrtated and unsure of where I stand.

So........what do I do? There are young children involved here, it was hard enough on my kids when their mom and I decided to get divorced, I don't want to do that to them a second time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Whew you avoided marrying this cheater. Do not marry her and start the "breaking up" process. You and the kids need someone better in your lives than that. Personally it sounds like you two were the reason both your marriages broke up. You know,, because you were "friends">

she is a serial cheater. You need to put any wedding plans on hold. She couldn't be trusted in her first marriage, she cheated. She cheated on you too. And whats this crap about her not cheating on you again, because everyone knows about you? Don't marry her.

To clarify, we were both already in the process of getting divorces before we met. Both of them took forever due to difficult spouses/financial agreements.

Whatever this woman's words, her actions tell you that she does not respect the boundaries of a committed relationship - either her own or her OM's.

She cheated on her previous husband. Does that concern you? She is still in a relationship with the same OM. The chances of her cheating on you are probably close to 100%, wouldn't you say?

It sounds like she hoped the OM would leave his wife for her, and that she's still hoping. Face the possibility that her involvement with you may be an attempt to make him jealous.

Why did your own marriage break up?


TA

She hasn't seen the OM for 2 and a half years. He doesn't know about us nor do they have contact anymore.

Her divorce was bc her husband didn't want to be a family, I have met him and by his actions and his own parents description, it wasn't her. Did she go about it the right way in being behind his back? No. Would the result have been the same? Yes.

Mine was due to financials, love of her credit card over the family. 200k in 5 years and just escaping bankruptcy ended it. There was no physical intimacy, no emotional support on my end. If the money was there to spend all was ok, if it wasn't all heck broke loose.

The prior cheating does concern me. She told me that the VM was there because it was a support mechanism for her, she felt strength from it, there was no emotional attachment to him. Still lots of explaining to do.

I have been trying to figure this out for 3 months on my own. Hence, I am here.

BL,
I know you would like to believe that you will be "The One" that she will commit to BUT the reality is she hasn't. You can't ignore her history because it is tell tale of her future. She is the first after your D - not a good thing. You are starting off a second serious relationship with a lot of bad beginnings. And a lot of warnings signs. Don't ignore the signs and do not take this relationship any further. You need to focus on you and work on why you would have poor boundaries. I think your ID name says a lot of how you feel about yourself - you need to work on you.

Gg

Gg

Good that you're here. Welcome.

Hard when you love someone, but you have to look this one in the eye. Most cheaters do it again. Most divorced people divorce again (speaking from experience - and I certainly still have a lot to learn about being a spouse.) Add the two together and the dreams you have/had are really unlikely to be played out the way you want them to be.

What work have you done on yourself since your divorce? Work that you've done for you, by you, without her?

- M

I guess there are positives that I have in my head, maybe some unbiased opinions will help.

The biggest one being is that we are from completely different religious backgrounds. She has battled with her mother to allow me to be part of the family and enter the home (catholic vs. jewish). It was not easy and there were months of "talks". I believe that she is serious but I still have those doubts circling in the back of my head. I have been cheated on in every relationship I have been in (I am 36 years old). Is it me? I give 110%. That was part of the problem in my marriage. I worked, cooked, cleaned etc, she was a full-time mom who liked to shop. I enabled it.

I have been to counseling, after weeks on two different counselors sofa's there wasn't anything for "me" to work on. I don't know, maybe I am doing something wrong.

You owned 50% of what happened to that relationship. If you haven't worked on understanding your part, you are most likely to repeat it with someone else. Do you get this?

Gg

Posts crossed. Okay - what will it take for you to trust GF? Her actions have not shown she can be trusted. She told you she went to OM for support. What happens when you are married and there is conflict - is she going to run to OM for support?

Questions to ask before marriage

Gg

I think the quote was interpreted in the wrong way and that was my fault for writing it that way.

I craved my wife, the intimacy, the emotional support and never received it. We would be intimate if I got a bonus or brought a gift home. Otherwise nothing would happen. I did own 50 percent of the relationship, the problem is she wouldn't own her half. We would go to the marriage counselor, sit through session after session and the counselor would look at her and tell her this is why x, y and z are happening. Its not him, its you. She'd agree and 2 days later find a way to twist it to be my fault. We'd go back to the counselor, discuss and then end up not going back because she didn't agree with the counselor. After going to 4 different counselors in the span of 2 years they were all wrong, she was right and that was that. I couldn't live that way anymore.

So yes, I am fully aware of what it takes to make a relationship work, the effort needed on both sides. My ex was not willing to give that commitment unless there was some type of $ tied to it. Heck, even on our date night she'd see older guys sitting at the bar who looked "wealthy" and say, why don't you go see what he does for a living because they have money. Being in my late 20's at the time and making a six figure salary still wasn't enough.

She did go to the OM for support during her first marriage. He is out of the picture now completely. Its just us as far as I can tell.

What will it take? It will take a lot of time to trust again. I need some kind of explanation other then "i was drunk". I want to know where I stand. I am the mush in the relationship, its like the typical male/female roles were switched. I am the one who can easily express my feelings, she can't. She will tell me that she loves me, but there isn't more behind it then that where I can write a book.

A lot of that comes from her prior marriage. 16 year relationship, only cheated at the very end of it (still cheated I know). He was a former military guy, not the warm fuzzy type. Would leave her on weekends to hang out with the boys while she stayed home etc.

That's not the point I was trying to make. As you said - you gave 110% cleaning and such and being an enabler. How do you know you won't do this again in your next relationship? You are already ready to accept someone who has betrayed you? You let one woman step all over you and apparently you are getting ready for another woman to do the same.

Gg

Good points, sorry I missed that. Trying to get ready to do bed time with my youngest....

I am willing to allow that we are all human and make mistakes. Heck, if it weren't for mistakes this board wouldn't exist right?

We do have a 50/50 relationship. Outside of the 2 secrets everything has been great. We share duties equally, help out when the other needs and so forth. I did go through that part in marriage counseling with the first one. THat's another reason why my marriage went south. I was told to make it a partnership and communicate. I tried, she didn't want anything to change. I won't do that to myself again.

I believe that you are smarter this time. My fear for you is that you will overlook the signs that are right in front of you. Especially if you're getting great SF (probably your top need since divorcing) - some men tend to be blind to other things in the relationship when top need is met. You cannot go by what your GF is saying. You have to watch her actions. On the home page Harley has some great articles on choosing and preparing for M.

BTW - having an A is a choice - not necessarily labeled mistake.

Gg

Ok, one question...is there a difference between an affair and a one night stand?

From what has occurred in our relationship, its only really been the one night stand. Yes, she hid the other stuff and saved the v-mail but........

There you go enabling by believing a one-night stand is acceptable behavior - that it is a mistake and not a choice - she is not 17 - she is an adult - she knew what she was doing by choosing to get drunk and then choosing to screw OM. I'm sorry I don't care how bad your M is - you get out first before messing around with someone else and potentially giving spouse STD. She risked her health and that of someone elses and for what? Again think hard about what you are accepting.

If you think it is a mistake and she thinks it is a mistake - guess what happens when she has a ONS while married to you - she'll come and tell you "oops sorry - it's a mistake".

Gg

Understood. So where do I go from here? Do we work through it, or call it quits now?

I am being lenient by calling it a mistake. I have not let this go easily with her, actually, I haven't let it go at all. I have been in situations where I have had a few drinks and have been hit on and propositioned to go home with someone else. I have turned them down though knowing what it would do to our relationship and so forth. She didn't do that. It will be a year at the end of this month that it happened. If she didn't tell me I wouldn't have been any wiser. So I either take comfort in the fact that she told me the truth OR it was her letting her conscience get a little cleaner by unburdening herself.

BL,
You are a smart man. She has not been upfront and honest with you - so tell me - what is your relationship based on if you don't have honesty. The only reason she told you was because of what you discovered and you pressed her for information. I don't even think you have the full truth of what happened at the friends house. My opinion is to step out of this relationship. There are just to many red flags: relationship to soon after divorce, different religions, lying, affair.

Gg