Ok, question. How would your advice/opinion differ if we were married instead of dating? Usually the spouse doesn't come out and say "Hey, I am having an affair". So, lets take it from that perspective.

Do I think what you are saying is invalid? No, absolutely not. If I look at it from what happened at the friends house, honestly, in my mind it was all of them. I know she was with at minimum his wife. My mind has a way of making everything worse so of course I assume and picture it being all 3. The religion thing while an issue for her mother is not an issue for me, her or the rest of the family. I have dated outside the religion before and being married to a catholic for 8 years didn't really help the situation either.

Agreed. She only told him what she thinks she had to after he discovered it. Born, if you hadn't checked her vmail, she would have happily kept you in the dark about this. I also think you jumped into this relationship too early. You should have let your divorce finalize, gotten some more distance, and let your emotions stabilize before getting involved again. And now you know that she was cheating on her first husband, which calls into question everything you think you know about how their relationship ended. You don't really know that her ex-husband didn't divorce her and drag it out BECAUSE she was cheating. Now throw in what she tells you is a ONS, and this woman is not trustworthy. I do not think she cares much about relationship boundaries.

If you want to try and salvage this, I think you have your work cut out for you. I would immediately start marriage counseling sessions with the Harley's, not some random counselor in your area. But if it were me, the only remnants of me in that relationship would be a low pressure zone in the place my body had just been.

Born,
I know you love her very much and you desperately want this to work. I think Unfettered made a good suggestion. Harley is an expert at relationships and infidelity. You might want to do a phone consult with him. I'm sure he will give you great advice on what actions you would need to take and what actions your wGF needs to take to increase the chances of your relationship and/or marriage being successful.

Clarification, by religion I didn't mean getting involved with another person I meant the challenges it brings in raising a family on different beliefs.

If you were married the advice would be to follow Harley principles. Believe me - it is much more painful when you are married and you have a Dday.

Gg

I know the pains of infidelity in marriage. I never wanted another relationship with being cheated on. It did happen in my first marriage and we worked through that only to have her give up on the rest of it.

Maybe its time to take a step back and re-evaluate. Maybe its the fear of being alone that wants to keep making excuses. I don't know. I do know that up until I found out about the secrets it was the best relationship of my life. 2 years of working through life's challenges together. I wish I never had a reason to come here or to doubt her.

Is that correct? She had lesbian sex? Is this in addition to sex with OM?

Group sex? Swinging?

Good grief man. Walk away, and walk away FAST. No matter how "nice" she seems to be, this woman is CLEARLY NOT THE ONE to commit yourself to. Right now you are making all sorts of excuses for her behaviour, behaviour that you KNOW should really be inexcusable.

FWIW, I did EXACTLY THE SAME THING, as I was once in your shoes - and I also made excuses for behaviour that I should have found inexcusable. I grasped at logical straws to convince myself to keep the relationship going, one that should have ended as soon as the first act infidelity occured. I strongly advise that you STOP DOING THAT BEFORE YOU MAKE A VERY BIG MISTAKE.

Oof. Reading this entire thread has made me feel like I've been punched in the gut.

I wish I'd had the kind of honest feedback when I met my WW instead of people either saying, "Gee, the two of you look like the perfect couple." Except for the few who said behind our backs, "It'll never work out, she's only in it for his money" (not that I have a lot, but I make a good living and she was essentially a poor country girl).

I ignored the red flags. Ignored? H3ll, I was so blinded by the attention a good-looking, sexy woman was paying me after so many years of no-dating-and-no-relationships that the flags could have been the size of Mount Rushmore and I wouldn't have seen them.

And the reason I'm here, BL, should be obvious.

I think you're in love with love and afraid to go it alone. In many ways, I'm like you. But here is where it got me.

I'm learning a lot here. These folks and my lawyer are both telling it like they see it. A lot of this is stuff I don't want to read. But I read it, and feel like I've been punched in the gut. You know what that means? It's hitting home.

I have a few people express their doubts to me, but I made up "excuses" for that as well. Oh, they didn't know her as well as I do, etc., etc.

Plus, the persons who pointed out their "concerns" about my relationship were not very forceful about it - I guess they were trying to get their point across without hurting my feelings. Basically trying to avoid conflict. I wished they'd approached the subject like how my aunt does in situations like that - tell it like it is, let the chips fall where they may.

Hindsight is always 20/20 vision.

So, I'm doing here what I'd wished someone had done for me those many years ago - telling it like it is.

If you marry her, IMO you have no room to complain about the inevitable dishonesty and cheating to follow. You should accept it cheerfully. You're signing up for it.

You comforted each other through your divorces. You were both not healthy whole people. That is the worst time to get involved with someone. If you want a successful marriage you need to be healthy emotionally and a whole-person - meaning you can be happy by yourself. I think your point about fear is definately worth evaluating.

Gg

BL

Sorry you are going through a tough time, let me get this straight first there are 2 separate incidents here

1) her concealed relationship with another man while you were first getting to know eachother.

2) A one night stand with a woman and her pertner, not the first man mentioned in the voicemail. Is that correct??

My advice is to think carefully if this relatively new relationship is this much hard work can it really survive years of marriage?? what have you got exactly that will make the future possible? Trust? not there, Love? maybe there but on her terms, communication? Not there as its sparce and full of deceit. So why are you willing to settle for this? cant you see that after spending years unhappily married she is at the stage of rebellion and experimenting (sex with couple, choosing someone from differnt faith etc), do you really want to be there through that because the danger is that if you accept the way she has behaved by marrying her you will have accepted her behaviour and there will be no deterrant for her not to repeat it in the future. Had this lady shown honesty and told you what she has been up to I would consider having hope in the future but the truth is that she is not honest with you until you catch her, can you really live with snooping for the truth for the rest of your life?

No matter how much of a looser you think you are (referring to your name) your kids deserve a stable future and you deserve better than this. Go out there and see for yourself that there are pleanty of honest loving and caring women who will appreciate you and care for you and reciprocate your love in a more deserving manner than this lady, dont sell yourself short, life is short and its up to you to make the most of it, settling for the relationship you are in is not good and will only lead to pain and suffering for everyone involved.