I just read on another thread that Dr. Harley is currently working on a revision of SAA, and it got me thinking. When I first found out that I was pregnant with OM's baby, I went searching for something that would help guide me through the crazy, terrible situation that my A had landed me in. I didn't know about this site, so mostly, I was looking for books. I really wanted something for me and my H to read that would help us navigate the complex situation of trying to R our M while dealing with an OC. An OC adds an entirely knew dimension to an A and there are so many unique issues that must be addressed.

But, I found nothing. There is no book that even touches the subject, at least as far as I could see. I felt utterly alone and in completely untrodden territory trying to navigate through our situation. It was a godsend when I found this site, because finally, there was something that addressed the issues my H and I were facing in our M. But, as helpful as the letters on this site were where Dr. Harley addresses the issue of the OC, I found myself wishing for more.

So, my question is, does anyone know if Dr. Harley is considering addressing the issues surrounding the OC in SAA (or maybe even a separate book dealing with this unique situation)? It seems to me as though there is a need for this sort of thing out there that has gone largely unaddressed.

If he does, I sure wish he would address from the WH/BW side. Right now he only addresses the WW/BH side.

Faith: I never realized that. I didn't look on the site for anything about the WH/BW side, since that wasn't our situation with our OC.

There certainly is a need out there. I hope Dr. Harley is listening.

writer1:

I am revising SAA and it should be in print sometime in 2011, and the problem you raise will be included in it. But it's particularly difficult to address because of our no-contact-with-the-ex-lover rule on the one hand, and the need of a child to have contact with their natural parents on the other. Our radio archives have more on this subject than anything I've written so far, because we've had several listeners call in with this problem, and I describe the approach I take.

As you probably already know by now, I tilt toward keeping the marriage healthy at the possible expense of the child not having adequate contact with the OM. I recommend that at the time of birth, the other man not be mentioned on the birth certificate unless he demands it. That makes your husband the legal parent of the child. If he does demand being on the birth certificate, I recommend that he pay child support until the child is 19. If the OM wants visitation, I recommend that it be done with transparency, so his own family knows what's going on. A mediator, paid by him, is to pick up and deliver the child so that you and your husband never have to have any contact with him.

In almost all cases that I've witnessed, the OM isn't willing to be named on the birth certificate, pay the child support, or make the situation known to his family. Under those conditions, I highly suggest that he not be able to visit his child until he or she is an adult. If an attempt is made, I suggest getting a restraining order. While that policy seems very rigid and uncaring toward the child, the alternatives are usually disastrous. Having an old lover around, the cause of your husband's greatest sadness, has such an devastating effect on the marriage that few survive.

Having heard from some of the couples who have followed this way of thinking, and others who have done the opposite, I am confident that it is the best approach to your situation.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Thank you, Dr. Harley, for your wise response.

I am so glad that you will be addressing the issue of OC's in the new addition of SAA. I can't wait to read it. I know it is a sticky subject and one that is quite difficult to address, so I admire you very much for tackling this topic. I will try to check out the radio archives. I have a Mac, and I've had some difficulty accessing them in the past, but I'm going to try on another computer.

It's good to get some affirmation that my H and I handled this in the right way. We didn't find MB until our daughter was a year old, but OM is not on the birth certificate, does not pay CS, and is not a part of our OC's life.

Thank you once again for addressing this issue.

Hi Dr. Harley!

Do you plan to include in the updated SAA the whole WH/OC issue? So far those of us dealing with C and NC have struggled to find our own way in this situation.

thank you!

Ditto Faithy's question, please....

faithful follower & migsamac:

Revisions of all my books are based on comments and criticisms I receive from readers. While this topic will already be addressed, any specific questions you have will help in guiding me toward a more complete analysis of the problem.

When it comes to a WH having OC, the no contact rule still applies. He is usually not required by law to be named as the father on the birth certificate or to provide child support. But in some cases, a BS and WH enthusiastically agree to provide child support even when his name is not on the birth certificate or the OW does not demand it. Even in those cases, however, I recommend no contact with the mother or the child. It's a very painful choice, but as with the WW/OC situation, contact is usually even worse. Some of the most difficult decisions in life are those where we must choose between two very unpleasant alternatives.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Very wise words indeed.

Dr. Harley,

Here is where I specifically struggled. I did a good plan A but failed to go into plan B. We had multiple false recoveries because my FWH became very adept at lying and took the A deep under ground. The A would have been long over if not for his guilt about the OC. So, I completely agree with your stance about NC with OW/OC, however, we are making C work now.

My question/issue is derived from a much more specific situation, so you may not be able to address it adequately in SAA. But.....

H and I have been married 12.5 years, happily. For ~6 years we tried to have COM of marriage with no luck due to my infertility issues. H wants a child desperately.

Not related to desperation, but to stupidity and drunkenness, H has ONS and now has a son.

H feels a TREMENDOUS amount of guilt for his actions and pain for ALL involved. Although he did see OC a few times while in the NICU, we have since been in NC, BUT he says b/c he is "giving me what I want."

OW is not an issue at all. H wants contact with OC since I have not been able to give him a COM. However, this is excruitatingly painful to me and if I am to stay in the M, I cannot have this.

If NC is truly the best option (I firmly believe it is), how can H be convinced of this when he has not been able to have a COM previously?

It would also be helpful if you could address dealing with IL's when they desire C also with the OC and the couple chooses NC.

Heck, you should just write an entire book for those of us dealing with an A that results in an OC.

Infertility is hard. An A is harder. But, infertility + A + OC is definitely the hardest (IMHO).

I haven't been around here in a long time but for some reason signed in today~
Dr.Steve Harley and my husband and me counseled a few times in 2002. His input was invaluable.
We have N/C, we also moved as ow was in our neighborhood and I saw her coming and going.
Here it is nine years later and we are still each others best friend and lover.

It wasn't easy and at times still isn't as ow chased me even after we moved. She takes my H to court every other year and sometimes twice a year asking for more money. She is still with her H ,but they still live apart. She even sent flowers to H's Fathers funeral which we had removed. (2007)I once had a cease and desist letter sent to her(from prosecutor) but it was a joke~ She did neither.

Our lawyer recently turned the tables after her last request for more money, he is accussing her of harrassment among other things and is telling the judge oc was born during OUR marriage and a host of other things.

She has not answered the laundry list of questions our lawyer sent in Sept. and the last court date was put on continuance for the third time. Our lawyer is trying to stop her from doing this constant wanting more stating in his 30 years even DIVORCED women haven't been as bad. He also stated I have a relapse each time this happens. I don't want her to think that but lawyer said it's something he wants brought out.

My point?

Even without contact, some ow refuse to go away. It can be so nice and bam!! something else happens.

I know all we want is peace and to live our lives without so much cost and drama, so does my H.

I can't wait to read all about it in 2011~
BTW I listen to Dr. Steve all the time on our local radio as he has been a frequent guest especially in light of all of the celebrity affairs!
This place is wonderful and full of great advice~

Gemini1

good to hear from you. No, there isn't any really good advice on how to deal with this issue. Even here on MB's many attack us for NC. For protecting ourselves, our family, and our COM. I understand your pain every time OW rears her attorney at us as well. We have established C only through the attorney but she refuses to comply and there is no legal protection for us.
Unfortunately, even without FWH's name on BC she still persued paternity for CS, and will nickel and dime us when ever the opportunity arises.
This becomes an ongoing 18 year recovery process that requires attention, and stirs up guilt, anger and remorse every time OW "needs" to C the father of her OC for more money.
I disagree and my H does as well with Dr. Harley on the C'ing FWH after the OC turns 18. We know where the OC is. NC is for the OW but it is for all of us as well. If we want C with OC we know how to do it.. Our big fear and trepidation lie in the fact that this unwanted OC will present himself to us and expect us to tell him to his face the truth about his mother, the lapse of moral integrity in his father, and the desire of FWH to repair the damage caused to his M and COM by being NC.

Fled

Fled, you are so singing my song. How in the world am I going to be able to make it the next 17.5 years, walking on eggshells, waiting on OW to attack and then for the eventual contact from OC? My DAILY prayer is that OW will remarry and someone will adopt OC and that will be the end of that. Fat chance, but I can hope, right????

I still dry heave everytime I think that this is my life. My, my.....how quickly happily ever after can go to hell in a handbasket.

"""""""""Even without contact, some ow refuse to go away. It can be so nice and bam!! something else happens""""""""""

that is one of the reasons i wanted cs and if om wanted to, visitation.

there was no quarantee that he would not have walked back into our lives somewhere down the line

i always think it is better to keep your enemy's (so to speak) where you can see them

Pops: Not sure where you live, but here in CA, the way I understand it, the OM only has 2 years after the birth of the child to contest paternity. After that, it's beyond the statute of limitations and there's not much he can do.

Does the OM in your case have visitation then? Is he on the birth certificate?

i live in sunny so. cal.

yes i am aware of the 2 yr paternity deal.

yes om has visitation.

there is No father listed on the bc. the court order said he could have his name on the bc. well fh (fullhouse is my w) and i figured that if he wanted it so bad then it was his responsibility to take the court papers to the court house and git er dun. he never has. the court also said he had the right to add his last name as another middle name. he ain'ta dun that neither

in regards to this topic, for me om lives in the same relitively small city by sc standards. both our com's attend the same hs. in fact my 21 yo ds actually coached om's oldest son for 2 yrs on the hs soccer team. his youngest d(com) will be in the same hs at the same time as our oc.

as gem said sometimes op don't play fair. there was nothing to stop him from walking back in and throwing a wrench in the works.

you can say restaining order but people break those all the time. i know i have that happenning to me right now with one. and even if you throw them in jail for bteaking the ro it will be an overnighter at best and the damage will have already been done

Pops, it looks like you and I are practically neighbors.

That's a tough situation. I don't know how my own situation would have played out differently if the OM had lived nearby. In our case, with the OM 3000 miles away, I think it was much easier for everyone involved to come to the realization that NC was the best (really the only) way to go. There wasn't much danger of the OM showing up on my doorstep and causing problems. He doesn't make enough to afford the plane ticket on a regular basis, and he's only left New England twice in his life. I feel pretty secure at this point.

But I think you did bypass one of the issues that I am facing by the way you chose to handle your situation - and that's how to tell your OC about the situation. Your OC is growing up knowing both you and her bio dad, negating the necessity for a "moment of truth." My OC has no awareness that she has another dad other than my H. But everyone else in the family knows, so she will have to be told eventually. I have absolutely no idea how or when to do this. If I do it too soon, she may not understand and (I've been told) her relationship with her dad (the one who's raising her and the only one she knows) may be negatively affected. If I do it too late, she may be resentful because everyone was lying to her for so long. No matter when I do it, everything she knew about herself up until that point will be drastically altered.

I guess, no matter how you choose to handle a situation like this, there is no perfect solution. There's always a nagging at the back of the mind, wondering if you did the right thing. I think we all do the best we can under very imperfect circumstances.

Writer, I have confidence that you will know the right way to deal with that issue when the time comes.

then welcome neighbor, but in ca that can still be long distance neighbors. we are in south oc. yeah a stones throw from the "real housewives" lol.

"""""""""""But I think you did bypass one of the issues that I am facing by the way you chose to handle your situation - and that's how to tell your OC about the situation. Your OC is growing up knowing both you and her bio dad, negating the necessity for a "moment of truth." My OC has no awareness that she has another dad other than my H. But everyone else in the family knows, so she will have to be told eventually. I have absolutely no idea how or when to do this. If I do it too soon, she may not understand and (I've been told) her relationship with her dad (the one who's raising her and the only one she knows) may be negatively affected. If I do it too late, she may be resentful because everyone was lying to her for so long. No matter when I do it, everything she knew about herself up until that point will be drastically altered.""""""""""""

that was another one of my reasons for wanting cs/visitation. for us om was another nationality then my w and i. there would be no mistaking oc was not mine. plus the vasectomy thing that all had celebrated for me.

even tho i have doubts now i still am very convinced that with the exception of abuse, some form c is the proper way.

but for delema. did om walk away?

if so then i think 1/2 your problem is solved.

i am also a believer in the truth will set you free. i think you and your h should have some serious discussion about proper time and how to tell your little girl.

I live in the IE, right over Ortega Highway from you. We used to live in OC. Small world.

My H also had a vasectomy, 11 years ago, so not telling everyone wasn't an option for us either. OM isn't a different nationality, but he looks very different from my H - shorter, darker. H is 6"1" and blonde/blue-eyed.

Yes, it was OM's decision not to be part of our OC's life. I didn't agree with it at first, because of the above-mentioned issues, but there wasn't much I could do about it. Under the circumstances, it is difficult to see how C could work for us, considering the distance issue and OC's age (she's only 14 months old, so she couldn't really travel back and forth across the country by herself).

We do plan on telling our daughter the truth. We've discussed it some, but it's hard to come up with an exact age at the moment. It will probably largely depend on her maturity level. But I do want to talk to her before she accidentally stumbles across the truth. So many people know that it's definitely a possibility she could overhear something, and that's not how I want her to find out.