Thanks, bjs. That's what I told him at lunch. Everyone he knows or even just meets has been urging him to start his own business for years (yes, he's that good in his field). So I told him that I think God has been giving him all these disappointments to get him the courage to go ahead and try.

*hugs*

What *I* would do (and I don't claim to be the healthiest person around lol) is I would walk away if someone started started spouting off angry remarks that I didn't want to hear.

I.e.:


I would walk away, if (a) he started showing signs of anger that I was uncomfortable with, or (b) I was starting to feel triggered, whether or not he was causing it, just if I felt uncomfortable.

Remember POJA. If *you* aren't *enthusiastic* about being in the same room, then don't be. It sure doesn't sound like you are enthusiastic.


Yay!!!!!!!! We've waited so long to hear you sound so healthy and strong, this is GREAT!!!!!!!!


The triggers are YOURS. The anger is HIS.

You take care of your triggers: if you are triggering and so are uncomfortable being around him when he's in this mood, THEN DON'T BE AROUND HIM WHEN HE'S ACTING LIKE THIS.

Let *him* take care of his anger.

(1) You don't sound *enthusiastic* about being around him, so don't take on the responsibility for "fixing" his mood.

(2) His feelings are his responsibility. You aren't responsible for making sure he is happy.

(3) You aren't doing him any favors by "mothering" him like that. He's a big boy - or at least it's time he started learning to be a big boy. Let him learn to handle his emotions. Stop robbing him of these opportunities.


If you want to stay away from him, then YES stay away from him! If being around him is making you uncomfortable, then YOU AREN'T ENTHUSIASTIC. Stop being a martyr.


If HIS emotions fester and boil, that's HIS responsibility.

STOP THINKING YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS EMOTIONS.


Personally, I hate hovering, I hate being hovered over, and I would lose self-respect if I kissed up.


I think a healthy person would try to comfort the hurting loved one, up until the time the hurting person started taking it out on them.

Perhaps, with a long history of protecting each other and treating each other with love and respect, *perhaps* person A might cut person B (the hurting one) some slack. BECAUSE PERSON A WOULD FEEL SECURE BASED ON PAST EXPERIENCE, and WOULD NOT FEEL THREATENED OR TRIGGERED.

IMHO a healthy person does not do something they are uncomfortable about doing.

I'm not talking about silly situations with necessary unpleasant chores like changing diapers... you know what I mean, I hope. For example, today at the movies, I went to get popcorn but didn't have enough cash (embarrassing!) so I had to go back to DH to get more money. I wanted DH to then go and get the popcorn. He wouldn't. I was annoyed, but I went back to get the popcorn. While getting it, I realized that his was a healthy response - he didn't really want the popcorn, and he had already done a lot of stuff for the family that day without much help from the kids and me, and was probably already on the verge of feeling put upon. He wisely refused to do anything more, that would've increased his feelings of resentment/martyrdom/put upon, whatever.

Again:

- DON'T DO ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT.

- STOP THINKING THAT THE WIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HUSBAND'S FEELINGS.

*hugs*

I liked everything the others said, cat. I also want to give you *huge* kudos for coming here and asking for help when you need. I remember when you were loath to do that, to bring attention to yourself. So I'm really glad you feel comfortable doing that here.

Cat, I heard something similar about how we all beat ourselves up, and why we don't have to, years ago in a parent session of a 3 day weekend acting workshop for DD13. I bought the book, too, How To Act And Eat At the Same Time, by Tom Logan, and I couldn't cut and paste the excerpt, but if you click here http://books.google.com/books?id=4v...wAw#v=onepage&q=audition&f=false and go to the link for P. 77, you'll see the story I'm trying to tell you. For every part in a commercial, maybe 200+ actors audition. 199 will go home thinking, maybe if I did my hair different, maybe if I had rehearsed harder, maybe if I knew how to walk into a room better, and so on and so on. They all beat themselves up. But for what, you know? All we can do is get back up, brush ourselves off, and keep being ourselves, kwim?

Jayne, thanks. This is just what I was thinking, but I'm so new to this territory of being on good terms with each other, lol, that I'm still questioning my opinions.

In the end, it was for naught. I helped in areas it would be normal to help with, like getting him a screwdriver while he was under the sink, and I stayed away in others. And he finished it, and that's all there was.

I like to think that HE has learned, too, whether he knows it or not.

Thanks, ears. The link only let me see the first two lines, but the next page was about beating herself up, so I can imagine where it's going.

Turned out to be a false alarm, which I assume is as much a testament to his growth as to mine. I think (I know, DJ) that he likes where we are now, and as smart as he is, he can sense where it's coming from, and what gets him away from it.

It really is amazing how much growth can occur in an old, stale marriage, if we just stop the dance.

Thanks to everyone who stuck with me these last couple years, and kept telling me the hard stuff, over and over, even though I didn't want to look at myself (damm toxic shame), until I finally just gave in and said Fine! I'll do it! I can see a future with him now, where I have my old self back and can see that he sees me as an equal. He always did, but I let MY issues distort how things went, and it spiraled.

It's weird because right now is when I had planned to leave (if I could afford it) - after D19 left for college. All these years, I was just holding it in, to be able to escape. And all along, I was the one hurting myself. I feel worst about the fact that I didn't 'get it' sooner and give D19 a healthier family. But it's never too late.

So...a little perspective maybe? Today is H's birthday. D19 is off at college about 3 hours away. On the way to work yesterday, my radio station was giving away concert tickets along with the ability to go backstage to meet the band (30 Seconds to Mars). Somehow, I managed to win the tickets! For tonight! So I tell D19, turns out her schedule would let her come down and not go back til Saturday afternoon.

So, I pick up the two tickets, verify that the paperwork says it includes meeting the band. D19 comes home today, we plan to meet at the house, D19 stopped to get dad a birthday card, and she and H can go to the concert. He asks me logistics about meeting the band, I say I don't know, can't you ask them when you get there? So...traffic, me stopping to get him a cake (which I should have gotten at lunch but didn't think of it), running late, D19 gets home where H is waiting, I'm still stuck in traffic so they meet me so I can give them the tickets, which I had brought with me in case D19 didn't get into town until later and had to go straight to the concert.

Long story short, he calls and says they were supposed to be there by 6:15 to be able to get backstage. Much ruckus ensues. I get home, there's a message from the radio station, giving me instructions and saying where to meet and to be there by 6:15! Wish they would have called yesterday! Anyway, I call H and give him the guy who called's name, in case that will help them get backstage, but by that time, they'd been there half an hour, and all the other people had gone inside, so they didn't even get good seating! Just one big fiasco.

So...yes, I could have called the radio stations for instructions, if I'd thought about it. But so could he; but he doesn't even know how to make a doctor's appointment because I've always done it all for 30 years. He could have checked the phone messages when he got home before me and known he had to hustle, but that's something I've done for the last 30 years, so it would have been out of his norm to do so.

So basically just a big snafu. But I'm stuck sitting here with a HUGE knot in my stomach. D19 didn't get to meet Jared Leto. H might be mad at me for not getting it figured out. I technically could fire back and say why didn't YOU call or YOU check the messages, but also not quite technically since those functions have always been understood to be mine. Plus, it's his birthday...

I don't know what I'm looking for. I guess I just sense a huge disappointment issue whenever they get home from the concert, what with the not getting to go backstage (and of course she already told everyone she was getting to meet him), and with H's birthday turning out pretty messed up, and they probably won't be home til midnight and we never gave cards or presents or cake, and it's just a crappy day now.

And of course with my history, I'm fearful of being blamed for the whole thing. He's already told me 3 times tonight that he wanted me to drive him to work so that I would 'have' to get off work on time to pick him up - his implication that he can't trust me to get home on time, even though I technically work til 6 but got off work early anyway. But that was news to me, as he never said anything about me taking him to work.

I guess I just wish I could have a do-over. I feel like I've disappointed everyone and I should have been smarter and more proactive.

Hey, sometimes things don't work out. That's life.

You didn't even expect to get the tickets. They came out of the blue, and things just didn't line up. It sounds more like the flaky radio station's fault more than anything else.

Don't worry about it, cat.
I hope your H and D19 feel the same way I do, because it is the thought that counts, and you sound like you really busted your rump to set up their dream night out.

Thanks, retread. D19 is texting me with 'blah' and 'hohum' cos she doesn't really like concerts (just wanted to meet Jared leto) and doesn't really like the bands playing.

What makes me mad is that my first instinct is to worry about whether H is getting bent out of shape. From 30 years of being afraid of pissing him off.

I shouldn't care about that, right?

Cat, wow, I wish that I'd gotten to see so many concerts that all I could say is blah and hohum, LOL. We live close enough to Disney to have gotten annual passes for a few years when our kids were younger, and we were lucky to go so many times that we didn't have to rush, that we could take our time and enjoy it. Once I found MB and we stopped sniping at each other, LOL.

Cat, it makes sense that you would feel fear after years of taking ownership of his feelings. But you're making new choices in the present, not to own his feelings anymore, respecting him as an individual now, capable to manage his own feelings. Your feelings will follow. I can't wait to hear you post, cat, about the first time you realize you're no longer afraid!

Thanks, Ned. She's grown up around celebrities because of H's job, so there's no excitement for her about concerts, plus she HATES crowds and noise. I think if it had been any other band besides 3STM - who has a gorgeous movie star for a lead singer - she wouldn't have driven down to see it.

She's actually only been to one other concert (Bowling for Soup), well, two if you count Bette Midler, lol.

It turned out ok, they were less upset than I was, and they even left early to go eat. Didn't stay around for the autograph session. So I was making a mountain out of a molehill. Which made me realize that I do that a lot. With my toxic shame, I pretty much overanalyze everything so as to protect myself.

So now, when I don't have to protect myself from as much stuff, it's enlightening to see my actions 'from afar.' I think I'm learning more from that, than I've learned in the past!

No longer afraid...yeah, me too. Not there yet...but working on it.

What a lovely gift for your DH's birthday...time spent with DD. Their relationship...their stuff.

Your fears were all real from before, not now. If you don't make it perfect, then you'll be blamed, at fault, bad. And you know you can't make anything perfect...and still have perfect moments.

DH has his own fears...and gives you lots of practice at not taking them inside you. You nailed it where your toxic shame reaches out, like a factory needing supplies, to keep the production line moving.

And when it stops, feels very very weird. Uncomfortable...natural for your fears to flare up higher...and you didn't react to it...didn't fire off angry texts, rebutt unspoken arguments...

Seems like you wrestled your angel, Cat, and came out on top.



Making life bless you again. And us, at MB, being shared with.

Are you going to share with DH how much you beat yourself up (unbeknownst to him) yesterday and last night? Then lean on his shoulder, cuddle him around his middle?

Just wondering...

LA

You know, it hadn't occurred to me to tell him that, but it's a great idea. Thanks.

It's so weird to be sitting in my bedroom (worked from home today) and watching it snow outside - in Houston!

Cat...I can really relate to your fears.

I just wanted to say, though, that your husband and your daughter are adults, and once they realized it wasn't going to be the evening that was planned, they could have easily left and gone out to dinner and a movie, you know? I mean...we wives...we can't be everywhere to pick up the pieces when things don't work out.

I think if your dh does go off on you about it, it's okay to remind him that once they realized things weren't going well, they could have walked out and salvaged the evening somewhere else. The objective, in other words, wasn't that they see a concert together but more so that they spend time together on his birthday.

Don't sit idly back and take the blame for a botched evening that was out of your control. Your intentions were honorable and sweet, and if he/they can't see that, can't grasp that, well then...you may have them more spoiled and too accustomed to your involvement in their happiness than you think.

Yes, most definitely. I'm glad I'm learning to stop this behavior, lol. Well, at least be aware of it, lol.

Holy cow, snow???

Just a sec to post, wanted to support all statements encouraging you to not feel responsible for making sure H and D are happy and content and getting along. Great revelation that you were more upset than they were!

ETA: and that the concert was not even expected, a bonus, so anything at all should be appreciated.

*hugs*

Yeah. The good thing is the radio people said they'd give her tickets to another concert to make up for it.

That's really nice that they're doing that for her. Lucky.

What were their states of mind when they got back? Just wondering if you found that your fears were unfounded or if they reacted as you'd predicted.

Well, when they got back they were fine. I asked D19 today how things went, and she said that Dad tried to go ballstic, make all kinds of threats, all that, and she told him to stop, that he was ruining it for her, so he did. Glad to hear that she's learned to handle things better than I would have.

But, yeah, unfounded, kind of. Halfway.

Just wanted to add that, as requested, I asked H if he was mad at me or blamed me the night of the concert, and he said no. He thought the concert people were jerks, but he never thought any of it was my fault. I'm getting there in terms of bringing up possibly negative subjects - and then realizing (and reinforcing) that 95% of it is all my own setup fears. Yay me!